Summer advanced-level Greek and Latin programs

[ClemSnide]

I did the intensive Greek workshop at Berkeley this summer and it was an amazing experience. I was sent off into the advanced level of Greek this semester, and I'm already doing upper level Latin courses. Next summer I'm looking to return to the States to do some more Greek and Latin. The problem is that practically all the programs out there are for the intro or intermediate level. CUNY has an advanced-level one but they won't be offering it for Greek next year. Dumbarton Oaks has one, but again, not being offered next summer. Anyone know of others? I've sent off a letter to Reggie Foster in Milwaukee, but I'd prefer a place where I could do Latin and Greek at the same time. Suggestions?

[ElCielo]

Harvard extension school usually offers upper-level Greek and Latin courses during the summer (one of each). I don't think they call it intensive, but they usually cover a good chunk, meeting two or three times a week.

[ClemSnide]

Harvard extension school usually offers upper-level Greek and Latin courses during the summer (one of each). I don't think they call it intensive, but they usually cover a good chunk, meeting two or three times a week.

Thanks. Do you know if these are equivalent to their regular upper-level Latin and Greek courses? I mean in terms of being as rigorous etc.

[ElCielo]

I would guess yes, but I'm not sure. The one I was looking at taking was all three Oedipus plays in six weeks, so that seems like a fairly advanced class. If you are interested, I would check the catalogue and see who's teaching the classes next summer, and e-mail the Prof. and explain your situation. I'm sure they would be helpful. Not sure when the schedule will come out though.

[ClemSnide]

Great! I'll try to find out.

Any other American programs?

Edited September 29, 2010 by ClemSnide

[ClemSnide]

People! Rally! Help me out here.

[Bill Lumberg]

People! Rally! Help me out here.

Hi! The Harvard Extension School offered two advanced courses in the ancient languages this past summer. One was a Greek course on the Homeric Hymns for 4 credits, meeting for 6 weeks ($for 2580 tuition.) The other course, at the same price and for the same amount of time, was a Latin course on Vergil's Eclogues and Georgics taught by Richard Thomas. I took the course and enjoyed it, but it only met twice a week, for 3 hours each time, so that the meetings were too long in themselves, yet too infrequent. I certainly improved my Latin, but I don't think it was worth the price. Better to take a course where you'll learn just as much but at a lower cost. For instance, Tufts University (also in the Boston area) offers an advanced Latin course every summer, as does UT Austin (this past summer, on Caesar and Catullus respectively). So there are a few options for you. Perhaps UT Austin will offer an advanced Greek class next summer. Just check out the websites of these different schools starting in January or February. Hope this helps.

[ClemSnide]

Hi! The Harvard Extension School offered two advanced courses in the ancient languages this past summer. One was a Greek course on the Homeric Hymns for 4 credits, meeting for 6 weeks ($for 2580 tuition.) The other course, at the same price and for the same amount of time, was a Latin course on Vergil's Eclogues and Georgics taught by Richard Thomas. I took the course and enjoyed it, but it only met twice a week, for 3 hours each time, so that the meetings were too long in themselves, yet too infrequent. I certainly improved my Latin, but I don't think it was worth the price. Better to take a course where you'll learn just as much but at a lower cost. For instance, Tufts University (also in the Boston area) offers an advanced Latin course every summer, as does UT Austin (this past summer, on Caesar and Catullus respectively). So there are a few options for you. Perhaps UT Austin will offer an advanced Greek class next summer. Just check out the websites of these different schools starting in January or February. Hope this helps.

Thanks Corydon_non_sum. Yeah, it is really expensive, especially since I will be coming from Canada and will have a bunch of other fees to pay...

Questions for you, if you don't mind: How many people were in the class? Were you able to get a reference from Thomas (or did he write references for any people)? How many lines of poetry did you end up reading in the class? And was there a research paper? How substantial was it? Was the class comparable to other regular upper-level Latin classes you've taken? Sorry for so many questions, but I want to make completely sure the course would be worth it before I put down that much money (for both a Greek AND a Latin course! Yikes).

[Bill Lumberg]

Thanks Corydon_non_sum. Yeah, it is really expensive, especially since I will be coming from Canada and will have a bunch of other fees to pay...

Questions for you, if you don't mind: How many people were in the class? Were you able to get a reference from Thomas (or did he write references for any people)? How many lines of poetry did you end up reading in the class? And was there a research paper? How substantial was it? Was the class comparable to other regular upper-level Latin classes you've taken? Sorry for so many questions, but I want to make completely sure the course would be worth it before I put down that much money (for both a Greek AND a Latin course! Yikes).

No problem, those are some really good questions. First, I failed to get a recommendation from Thomas in spite of the fact that he gave me an A in the course. He was always extremely pleasant but has not responded to either of 2 emails I sent this fall (the emails were two months apart from each other). I was banking on this as part of my application strategy-- major failure on that count. And 2580 down the drain (plus the expenses of living near Boston for a summer). As for number of lines, we were assigned Eclogues 1-6 and 9-10, as well as the entire Georgics. While I read all the Eclogues assigned (about 500-600 lines?), I only managed to read about half of Georgics Book I, half of Book II, 3/4 of III, and all of IV. For the final exam, he required only certain lines, although even these were substantial. However, my biggest complaint about the class is that we didn't read enough Latin during class. Whether you had read much of the assignment before class or not ended up not mattering. Too much time was spent on him putting other passages from Latin literature on the projector from his laptop and translating them at sight, showing off in front of us, and then commenting on how they related to what we were looking at in the Eclogues or Georgics. This, I hear, is the major weakness of ivy-league classics deparments-- pretending like everyone can read the Latin and Greek and spending lots of time on literary and interpretive questions. I heard Victor Davis Hanson say once that when he was still at UC Fresno he eventually grew tired of interviewing candidates for Classics jobs from Berkeley and Harvard who could not read Latin or Greek. Those were probably rare cases, but it goes to show what they emphasize these days-- PC scholarship rather than real language skills.

As for the paper, all he required was a 5-7 page essay without secondary sources. Most of the students were high school students and high school Latin teachers; I was the only grad student; there was one Harvard undergrad doing a Classics minor. So in short the paper requirements were totally pathetic. I nonetheless wrote a 15 pager with a few secondary source references and have been trying to spruce it up this fall with more secondary source material to serve as a writing sample. All in all, given the Latin required, the course was basically equivalent to a second-tier upper level Latin course (i.e. 300 level instead of 400) at the undergraduate level. That is my opinion, anyhow, whatever the actual course number was.

So if you've got the money to spend, it's fun to read Latin around Harvard during the summer and get to listen to a world-famous scholar-- but if you don't have a lot of expendable cash, then I wouldn't recommend it. Nevertheless, it might look good on your transcript to have studied Latin and Greek at Harvard-- in any case, that's one or two more upper level Latin courses.

[ClemSnide]

Wow, CNS, thanks very much for all the information and the detail. Sorry I wasn't able to respond sooner; final exams and term papers have been keeping my busy.

It sucks that Thomas didn't write a reference and didn't respond to your emails; the not responding part is just beyond rude, doesn't he realize that people actually spend a lot of money to do this kind of stuff?! When I emailed Albert Henrichs about the Greek course he's teaching next summer, he didn't respond to my email. I think your experience and Henrich's attitude make my decision about where to go next summer a lot easier. The 5-7 page paper, the fact that most of the attendees are not undergrads, the not exactly exacting reading pace makes it sound like the money could be better spent elsewhere... But I shall try to get some perspective from my professors too, although I doubt they'll think it's still worth it based on what you've told me.

Thanks again!