Accept an offer, then later withdraw?

[engguy]

In case anyone was wondering what the agreement explicitly states:

"Students are under no obligation to respond to offers of financial support prior to April 15; earlier deadlines for acceptance of

such offers violate the intent of this Resolution. In those instances in which a student accepts an offer before April 15, and sub-

sequently desires to withdraw that acceptance, the student may submit in writing a resignation of the appointment at any time

through April 15. However, an acceptance given or left in force after April 15 commits the student not to accept another offer

without first obtaining a written release from the institution to which a commitment has been made. Similarly, an offer by an insti-

tution after April 15 is conditional on presentation by the student of the written release from any previously accepted offer. It is

further agreed by the institutions and organizations subscribing to the above Resolution that a copy of this Resolution should

accompany every scholarship, fellowship, traineeship, and assistantship offer." [emphasis mine]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Tx ... =firefox-a

is the url

Just for the record, I don't have any illusions either, and I think every prospective stu's primary concern ought to be to look out for him or herself. I've said as much on every thread where folks have had questions about pressure from schools. Yet I'm getting a little tired of santana's vehement tone on this and other threads -- something simply IS the way santana says it is, that's that. I think we all realize by now there are many problems with the US university system, and with the app. process in particular. But, yes, there are also people who do have ethics and who do follow them. And even if others don't, that's no excuse for everyone to drop theirs and treat this like a game of dice on the corner with a bunch of hoods.

There's an apparatus in place to protect you -- use it! The fact that it's there gives you even less excuse. If they are still pressuring you, give them a soft acceptance if need be -- as it states above, nothing is final till April 15 no matter what you sign.

[santana]

As far as I am aware many schools would not even include this resolution with the offer.

Basically you have the right to protect yourself in two ways:

1. Whoever gives you a financial offer that violates the Council's agreement it is completely understandable to have the right to accept the offer and then decline it once the better deal comes in, as long as you stay within April 15. I would say even after that deadline as I do not see that anybody would be obliged to follow the Council's agreements since they are not legally obligatory to applicants, in particular if they are not even presented to them. One-sided private agreements are not a law in this country. There are many types of contracts but I do not see this would be anything like a contract since it is obviously one-sided.

2. If an offer is submitted after the deadline of April 15, then you can do as you please. You have full rights to simply completely ignore it without spending any time or a postage on it. It is not ethical to make those kinds of offers to start with since they are violating the agreement in spirit. Waitlists with large number of applicants that will be mostly left in cold are certainly not something anybody should expect, respect, or consider normal. I know of programs that have waitlists 3 times bigger than offers they made. That is morally reprehensible as they are intentionally putting a large number of people in limbo without assuming any obligation to them. These are actually not "waitlists" since that would mean that after a period of waiting you would receive what you were waiting for. They are more like insurance policy for one side only. Maybe you'll use it or maybe you won't if you do not need it. I don't think anybody needs to feel any obligation to that. You can and should make insurance policy for yourself only as well, any way you see it fit.

To put things in perspective, I am myself currently on two waitlists, including an institution that was and still is my first choice. How can I possibly make a definite decision until that waiting is resolved?

[tomsmith]

Tritonetelephone,

You say that,

"...replacing a student who they thought had already granted acceptance would be a huge hassle when they've already rejected those on the wait-list. Obviously, it's a huge struggle for us, too- I'm just trying to provide a little perspective. I would absolutely hate to be in the same situation as euges and tomsmith, but personally, rather than withdrawing immediately, I would rather accept, stay until completing the Master's, then re-apply for the PhD."

I think it is a bit strange to think that a department having to make a few phone on the 16th or 17th to their waitlist (I doubt they have notified them of rejection at this time) is a huge hassle, but that a student investing a year or two of their life on an extra degree before re-applying to other graduate programs is not a hassle! That seems like a pretty strange perspective to me!

[Minnesotan]

We've been well-trained by Mother University to see things from her perspective. I think it would be ridiculous to go someplace where you would be miserable, all because you didn't have the cajones to call up the DGS and tell him honestly and politely that you've had a change of heart, and you are sorry, but you have to go elsewhere.

I think, if you use tact, most reasonable people would understand that this decision accounts for 4-8 years of your life, and that you should not "man up" and go to a program that you're going to resent having had to attend for 2+ years, just because you're stubbornly sticking to some misguided code of ethics. Do you really think they want to have a student who is only going to earn an MA and then bolt? Would it be beneficial to hold someone to their word, even if it means having a miserable, unenthusiastic person representing their school and their program to the outside world for the next few years?

Without being a total jerk, you really need to do what will make you happy. I think most program directors would understand this, and in hindsight realize that it was better that they did not try to force you to stick to the bargain.

[euges429]

We've been well-trained by Mother University to see things from her perspective. I think it would be ridiculous to go someplace where you would be miserable, all because you didn't have the cajones to call up the DGS and tell him honestly and politely that you've had a change of heart, and you are sorry, but you have to go elsewhere.

I think, if you use tact, most reasonable people would understand that this decision accounts for 4-8 years of your life, and that you should not "man up" and go to a program that you're going to resent having had to attend for 2+ years, just because you're stubbornly sticking to some misguided code of ethics. Do you really think they want to have a student who is only going to earn an MA and then bolt? Would it be beneficial to hold someone to their word, even if it means having a miserable, unenthusiastic person representing their school and their program to the outside world for the next few years?

Without being a total jerk, you really need to do what will make you happy. I think most program directors would understand this, and in hindsight realize that it was better that they did not try to force you to stick to the bargain.

I love the people here on this forum and GradCafe. The folks over at the Chronicle.com forums, I posted the same thing (accept then withdraw later), they completely bashed me, saying what I'm doing is unethical and I should just, as you said, "man up." They all think that there's no exception to the rule, even though I'm in the grad program for 4-8 years. I love you guys! *kisses*

[santana]

Again, it is easy to lecture ethics, it is much harder to behave accordingly when it is your turn.

You can see that over and over and over in the US. I can go on and on with examples. In other words when somebody starts to lecture corporate ethics (make no mistake, institutions of higher education are corporate entities) it is obvious to me that is only a hot air.

Personally, I have accepted offer (they forced me with a date before April 15 and I did not want to complain because I knew that would be stupid) I do not intend to pursue, I am waiting for a better deal to come in a few days. As soon as that happens I'll drop the first offer (I am not going to hurry anywhere though). If not I'll wait for April 15 and if needed I'll go there to study. I honestly do not care about anything else than to make sure I have made the best choice for myself. I think everybody else has the same right, I wish them the best, as a figure of speech, of course. :-)

[tomsmith]

euges,

Do you have a link to the Chronicles discussion. I went over but can't seem to find the discussion.

[Minnesotan]

This appears to be the one he meant:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/t ... 889.0.html

[euges429]

This appears to be the one he meant:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/t ... 889.0.html

Yeah, that's mine.

[yticnineb]

Ugh, slightly different problem. My second-choice school, an American school that is a signatory to the Council of Graduate Schools agreement accepted me and offered funding, but required a response to the funding offer on April 14 so that they would have time to find an alternate taker if necessary.

After talking to my first-choice school (also an American university and signatory to CGS agreement) last week and determining that I wouldn't get money, I accepted the offer at my second-choice yesterday (April 14). About five hours before doing so, I e-mailed first-choice to say, "Due to financial reasons, I am planning to take [second-choice]." I knew about the April 15 agreement, but I was trying to play this fair for everyone else involved.

This morning, first-choice e-mailed to say, "Actually, here is funding. Did you say yes to [second-choice]?"

Can I legally/ethically back out of second-choice at this point? I know I can change my response on their online graduate schools admissions form, but I e-mailed a signed letter accepting funding late yesterday afternoon. I am so upset!

[engguy]

ethically no, legally yes. here's the relevant portion of the cgs agreement:

Students are under no obligation to respond to offers of financial support prior to April 15; earlier deadlines for acceptance of

such offers violate the intent of this Resolution. In those instances in which a student accepts an offer before April 15, and sub-

sequently desires to withdraw that acceptance, the student may submit in writing a resignation of the appointment at any time

through April 15. However, an acceptance given or left in force after April 15 commits the student not to accept another offer

without first obtaining a written release from the institution to which a commitment has been made. Similarly, an offer by an insti-

tution after April 15 is conditional on presentation by the student of the written release from any previously accepted offer. It is

further agreed by the institutions and organizations subscribing to the above R

as I read that, you have through today to withdraw without requiring written release. it's your life and your education, so if you feel that compelled to reverse your decision, i would begin drafting a very apologetic letter right now.

good luck.

[yticnineb]

yeah, I agree. I know that second-choice had someone lined up to take it if I didn't. I am going to call now and ask them how much this hurts them, and if that person is still available. First-choice is giving extra time, so I can make sure second-choice can fill the space. Adding to the joy of the situation is the fact that, by taking second-choice, I was going to negatively impact a project with my employer, because it required me to start early. So I disappoint people either way. Suck. Bad karma.