Looking for info on UPenn

[cbm91]

I'm looking for info on the phd program in political science at UPenn.

A little about me:

Graduated from an average public school with good grades, 3.8, in polisci courses. Overall undergrad GPA was a 3.2, mainly because I did poorly in the beginning at another institution (transfer after two years). Final two years overall GPA was a 3.7. I went to a middle of the road law school and graduated in the middle of the class. I did law review and over the years managed to publish 6 articles in law reviews/journals, but nothing on political science topics. I've been working for 4 years--2 as a fellow at a government think tank-type of place and two as counsel at a high-level state government agency. I have not taken the GRE yet.

I'm thinking about switching gears and pursuing a phd in political science, which brings me back to my original question. My wife will most likely be in PA for a medical residency and I've been looking at UPenn and Pitt.

The UPenn webpage is somewhat helpful, but doesn't provide a ton of info. Other searches have come up the same.

Can anyone tell me how competitive this program is, how many people they accept, whether I'd have a shot in hell if I got a high GRE score, etc? Also, if you've been accepted or rejected at UPenn, what your stats are, if you don't mind posting them?

Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

[ShamPain]

i was rejected from UPenn.

School: generic state school.

Major: Econ (Specializations: Financial Econ; Intl. Trade)

Minor: Poli-Sci

GPA: 3.95 (magna cum laude)

GRE: 720Q/640V/5.5AWA

Awards/Scholarships/Courses: a bunch of awards and scholarships, but most relevant included undergrad honors research seminar and some grad-level seminar classes. more stats classes than a typical Poli-Sci undergrad. no publications, but some original undergrad research, used as my writing sample.

LOR: two endowed professors with whom i had high-level/grad-level seminar classes with, plus another fairly well-known senior professor.

Other: interesting personal history, including a career as a freelance journalist during my undergrad; extern at a state foreign trade agency.

i actually thought i had a really good chance at UPenn, but i guess it wasn't to be. i got accepted into another program which fits me better anyway, and i would most likely have turned UPenn down even if i had been accepted.

[cbm91]

Thanks, ShamPain. Good luck with the program you selected.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

Hi cbm91,

As you may be able to tell by reading some of the other topics, getting into a Poli Sci PhD program is an incredibly competitive, but also incredibly random process, giving those of us outside the admissions committee little idea of what makes a successful candidate. I can tell you that UPenn is a top 20 program and their acceptance rate is less than 10%, but they didn't take me, so I can't really say what will or will not get you in. You will hear about people with nearly perfect scores being rejected and those with seemingly "lessor" marks than your own getting into your dream program. I suggest reading through this forum, particularly posts starting in November/December of 2007 and you will get a bit of an idea of what we've all been going through.

"Political Science" is also not something that you just enter in general. Considering that you went to law school and worked in a government think tank, I imagine your focus (whatever that may be) is probably something that Penn does well, but you don't want to choose a school solely based on geography. But if you're just looking somewhere Pitt (I can't really speak to their program) or closer, you could also look at Penn State, Maryland, Delaware, George Mason, Princeton, Rutgers, American, GW, or Princeton. It really depends on your complete profile and your interests. That said, best of luck to you. It's a grueling process and I hope, in the better part of a decade, that it will have proven to be worthwhile.

I haven't quite decided where to go yet (I'm still waiting for a few more decisions), but even if Penn took me, there was probably only a 30% chance I would have gone there. Good luck!!

American Politics/Quantitative Methods Focus

BS Economics and Mathematics Double (top liberal arts)

UGPA: 3.6

GRE 770Q/630V/5.5W

MA Economics and Econometrics

Undergrad and grad research assistant

2 coauthorships

[cbm91]

Thanks for all the info UFA...love the sports reference in your username. From what I've read on this forum, it does seem a bit random (who gets in, who doesn't). Good luck making your decision, and congrats--having a decision to make seems to be a good thing around here.

[AllFiredUp]

UDF, where else have you gotten in?

[polisciapp]

I would disagree that UPenn is a top 20 program. I would say Top 50 would be more accurate. I think it has a good name (re: Ivy), but its department is not that strong--though it is probably a bit stronger than Pitt.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

AllFiredUp- My top choices are Florida State and SUNY Stony Brook, but I'm still waiting for a few more departments.

I would disagree that UPenn is a top 20 program. I would say Top 50 would be more accurate. I think it has a good name (re: Ivy), but its department is not that strong--though it is probably a bit stronger than Pitt.

That leads to another good point. There are dozens of different departmental rankings out there and all end up with more than a few strange results in terms of one school being placed above another. A good (but not necessarily the best or only) way to determine whether or not a school is good for your purposes is to ask about their placements. The more specific they are, the better. If they just say something vague like "a lot of our graduates go on to successful careers" but don't say where, or in what, be suspicious.

[sundaymonday]

polisciapp said:

I would disagree that UPenn is a top 20 program. I would say Top 50 would be more accurate. I think it has a good name (re: Ivy), but its department is not that strong--though it is probably a bit stronger than Pitt.

I agree with this statement. Maybe top 40? But not in the top 20.

I was rejected from Penn - didn't even get on the waitlist - which I thought was kind of surprising considering I'd had two (what I thought were) very good interviews with the DGS and another professor there. The DGS also had me meet some of the graduate students, and invited me to attend one of his classes later that afternoon. I wouldn't have chosen Penn over WUSTL, but I still feel that rejection a little more than the others. Ah, well.

Anyway, inside info says that they're working hard to get their ranking up, so perhaps they've become increasingly more selective about admissions. Also, my impression was that professors who were not on the admissions committee had virtually no input as to who got in. I know some departments circulate apps to people who might be interested in working with a particular applicant, but that didn't seem to be the case at Penn. If I were to do it over, I might have made more of an effort to contact other people on the committee that year.

Here are my UG stats:

NYU: Major Politics/Minor Economics.

GPA overall 3.75, major GPA 3.84

GREs: 1st time 630Q, 460V (????), 4.0 AW, 2nd time (one month later) 730Q, 650V, 5.0 AW

0 publications

Dean's Scholarship, graduated w/ honors

Some research experience: studied Arabic in Egypt and did field work in Dubai a year later

Took 6-7 highers in Middle Eastern politics, IR, econ.

One stellar LoR from a prof at Princeton.

[rtrm]

From someone accepted to the Poli Sci PhD at Pittsburgh:

It all depends on what you want to focus your research on. I don't know about Penn, but the strongest area at Pittsburgh is Comparative Politics esp. EU and Latin American Politics. They are also good on American Politics and IR but maybe not as strong as Penn. The great aspect about Pitt is that it offers full funding to all its admitted students and it makes for a very healthy environment. I just came back from the prospectives weekend and absolutely loved the collegial environment they got going. In addition, Pitt is one of the very few PhD that offers Mass Political Behavior as a separate subfield and they have some great courses in that area.

The poli sci program at Pitt was ranked 31st in the NRC rankings back in '95 (compared to Penn's 42nd) and it is very likely to go up in the upcoming 2008 NRC rankings report.

With regards to your wife's medical career, Pitt has one of the best medical schools in the the U.S., (top 15-20) so it would bne great for her as well.

Let me know if you want more info on Pitt and good luck with your search!!!

Reynaldo

[browneyedgirl]

I would echo much that's been said already. not that I'm saying you don't already know this, but I've met quite a number of people who are shocked at how large Pennsylvania actually is (as a native, I know this all-too-well), and if you are searching by geography, you'd want to either focus on the western or eastern part of the state.

Penn is rebuilding - it seems strange to see an Ivy not in the top ranked set of programs, but I've seen and heard them range wildly between 20,25 and 50. they are improving but, for many subfields, you'd want to look over the bridge to Princeton for a local example of a top program. and, truly, it is very easy to commute to Princeton from Philadelphia and the surrounding area. granted, needing to be on campus for class and teaching and research might make that harder, but it is not uncommon for people to even live somewhere around the Princeton (Junction) area with one partner heading to Philly and one to Manhattan.

[FuzzyDunlop]

One thing to consider about Penn is that it is very heavily qualitative. They have very few people who do quantitative research and don't offer that much instruction in stats or formal theory. That may or may not match your interests. It also might explain why some applicants don't get in who are more oriented toward quantitative projects or have that kind of background.

[polisciphd]

I would echo much that's been said already. not that I'm saying you don't already know this, but I've met quite a number of people who are shocked at how large Pennsylvania actually is (as a native, I know this all-too-well), and if you are searching by geography, you'd want to either focus on the western or eastern part of the state.

Penn is rebuilding - it seems strange to see an Ivy not in the top ranked set of programs, but I've seen and heard them range wildly between 20,25 and 50. they are improving but, for many subfields, you'd want to look over the bridge to Princeton for a local example of a top program. and, truly, it is very easy to commute to Princeton from Philadelphia and the surrounding area. granted, needing to be on campus for class and teaching and research might make that harder, but it is not uncommon for people to even live somewhere around the Princeton (Junction) area with one partner heading to Philly and one to Manhattan.

You have to remember that ivy does not mean that it is a top program, only that it happens to belong to the same sports conference that a couple of other very good schools do. Just because they play against each other, doesn't mean their academics are on par.

[browneyedgirl]

You have to remember that ivy does not mean that it is a top program, only that it happens to belong to the same sports conference that a couple of other very good schools do. Just because they play against each other, doesn't mean their academics are on par.

I know, I'm not saying I personally don't understand the distinction, or that I believe Penn should be higher than they are. but yes, I agree with your qualification of my statement.