SO stressed out for my low gpa, can my GRE make it up??

[jazzrap]

Hi,

I am an international student studying in a top 20 US university, now a sophomore, but still would like to hear advice concerning my political science phd application in the future.

GPA is my single biggest concern. I m having a 3.6 but this semester's business classes are screwing me up (I was a business major but switched to Poli Sci because the latter is what I have always been passionate about). I am probably going to have a 3.2 overall GPA for my first three semesters. I notice that the GPA trend matters, but I am just SO afraid that the top 10 programs are going to just weed me out based on my overall GPA.

Assuming that I can have 3.8 or 3.9 for the rest of my college life (a very reasonable chance, considering that I can be really good at what I like and I got A or A- for all the social sciences courses I have taken), and a very high GRE (possibly a perfect math given that all my friends back in China could get 800), can I be still eligible for a second round (survive the cut off)??

I am in an program where they let me work as a paid research assistant with a comparative politics professor for 2 years and write a thesis with him. I am also seeking to work on my research project with one of our school's best IR professor as my mentor on international relations in the Warring States. I am very sure that my individual work can be published in my university's political science journal (a peer-review journal mostly for undergraduates tho).

I will get recommendation letters from these 2 professors, and I will make sure that my 3rd recommendation will be equally strong.

I am Political Science and Economics double-major with Asian Studies minor. Chinese is my first language. I am seeking to do security studies concerning American Power in a more militarized Asia.

I would just like to know if I am really screwed from the outset, or my GRE can make it up for me to survive the brutal cut off so that I still have a chance to make into the top 10.

ANY help will be appreciated.

Best,

Jazzrap

[GopherGrad]

Don't panic. Focus on keeping your grades as high as possible. You have plenty of time to get a GPA well above anyone's estimation of the mythical cut-off.

[jazzrap]

Don't panic. Focus on keeping your grades as high as possible. You have plenty of time to get a GPA well above anyone's estimation of the mythical cut-off.

Thank you!! However, I just calculated from a realistic point of view: my GPA for the 8 semesters will be around 3.575 (assuming that I can have a three eight for every semester). This GPA is going to weed me out of any admission office, isn't it??

I really want the officers to look at my trend FIRST and then decide my future... sigh

[jazzrap]

Don't panic. Focus on keeping your grades as high as possible. You have plenty of time to get a GPA well above anyone's estimation of the mythical cut-off.

Is there any chance to approach the admission chair long before the application so that he/she may remember to look at my profile more thoroughly??

[adaptations]

I think the best advice you've been given is to just relax! You are years away from applying, and the best thing you can do in the meantime is get good grades, secure strong letters of rec., and please don't forget to have some fun - you're in college!

As for the grades - having a moderate GPA to start with and then securing mostly As your last couple years shouldn't be a problem, and more importantly, there is nothing you can do about the past grades, so just concentrate on doing well in your current and future classes.

[GopherGrad]

A 3.6 is hardly out of the running, especially when paired with a great GRE.

Please immediately forget about approaching any admissions chairs.

Look, I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, in part because I'm applying at extremely competetive schools with a 3.4. Here's how I see it: if there's some other applicant out there equal but for s/he didn't fuck up and drop a C- in Intro to Visual Arts, Princeton is probably going to take her over me.

That being said, admissions committees know that people make mistakes and grow because of them. If your research interests are compelling and your professors back up your research potential (and you don't bomb the GRE), you will be in the same starting pile as the rest of the go-getters.

Believe me, I wish that I could dress up as the GopherGrad of Application Seasons Yet to Come, travel back in time and show the GopherGrad sleeping through his Origins of English Words lectures how he's turning my hair grey (sort of) prematurely. But I can't turn back the clock and niether can you. Do everything you can, including this semester, to get great grades, then sell yourself to admissions as the person you are.

And, yeah, have some fun. Trust me, life is much better when achievement isn't the only order of the day. You might not want to take that as far as I did, though.

[jazzrap]

A 3.6 is hardly out of the running, especially when paired with a great GRE.

Please immediately forget about approaching any admissions chairs.

Look, I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, in part because I'm applying at extremely competetive schools with a 3.4. Here's how I see it: if there's some other applicant out there equal but for s/he didn't fuck up and drop a C- in Intro to Visual Arts, Princeton is probably going to take her over me.

That being said, admissions committees know that people make mistakes and grow because of them. If your research interests are compelling and your professors back up your research potential (and you don't bomb the GRE), you will be in the same starting pile as the rest of the go-getters.

Believe me, I wish that I could dress up as the GopherGrad of Application Seasons Yet to Come, travel back in time and show the GopherGrad sleeping through his Origins of English Words lectures how he's turning my hair grey (sort of) prematurely. But I can't turn back the clock and niether can you. Do everything you can, including this semester, to get great grades, then sell yourself to admissions as the person you are.

And, yeah, have some fun. Trust me, life is much better when achievement isn't the only order of the day. You might not want to take that as far as I did, though.

Hey GopherGrad, thank you so much for the advice, now I feel better now and I really appreciate it!! Yes, I will just forget about the past and move on. Hope your application went well!!

May I ask you another question tho?? Have you applied for any Master programs in case the super competitive schools turn you down or wait-list you so that you can strengthen yourself in a Master program and then apply once more for a competitive PHD program??

[jazzrap]

I think the best advice you've been given is to just relax! You are years away from applying, and the best thing you can do in the meantime is get good grades, secure strong letters of rec., and please don't forget to have some fun - you're in college!

As for the grades - having a moderate GPA to start with and then securing mostly As your last couple years shouldn't be a problem, and more importantly, there is nothing you can do about the past grades, so just concentrate on doing well in your current and future classes.

Oh I forgot about your reply. Thank you too!!

[GopherGrad]

Yes, I identified one terminal Master's program with the faculty and reputation to help me out in case the Ph.D. programs fall through.

I did this partly to help out with GPA concerns, but also to address the fact that I have not previously studied political science. (As an undergrad I did most of my courses in creative writing and theatre, then completed a JD.) I took a few upper division polisci classes that I found very interesting, but they were: a) not what I was used to studying, 2) subject I lacked any background in, and c) not my priority. As a result, I have a political science GPA of 3.0 and no letters from political scientists. Also, it bears mention that because I already have law school debt, I have decided on a fairly low ceiling of additional expenses I'm willing to take on. I say this because I want you to understand that I am approaching the idea of a Master's differently than you should.

Here are some things to keep in mind:

1) Let's assume that you'll do as well in polisci as you've posited and that you'll get great letters. What would a master's degree tell the admissions committees about you that they don't already know? I think you can make valid arguments that it proves something, but you have to ask yourself if the returns are good enough for the investment.

2) Master's programs are expensive and funding is hard to come by. That will make one year programs like MAPSS attractive, but then you're back the returns question again. No faculty member will be able to write a letter in time to go straight to your Ph.D. program (but maybe you want a year or two to earn money; don't discount the value of some professional experience to temper your work ethic, either). Two years will give you better opportunities to know teachers and publish, but it will be another $70,000 if you don't barback at some crappy college pub while you're there.

3) What would happen if you stayed at your bachelor's for another year? Would taking a fifth year harm your application? (My thought is no, but how would I know?) What affect would another year of 3.8 have on your one reported GPA? Could you score some indy studies with your favorite profs and aim to publish something truly compelling? (No disrespect, but the average undergrad publication completely lacks discipline, partly because undergrads are so young and partly because they are so busy. Maybe in your fifth year those issues would fall away.)

There might be financial benefits to this course, too. The one year will be cheaper (without sacrificing faculty relationships; to the contrary, you build them). You might be able to take on some TA/RA positions that would earn money without pulling you away from the discipline (and, in fact, further bolstering your application). Moving is expensive in and of itself. Etc.

Just some stuff to chew on.

Edited December 7, 2010 by GopherGrad

[jazzrap]

Yes, I identified one terminal Master's program with the faculty and reputation to help me out in case the Ph.D. programs fall through.

I did this partly to help out with GPA concerns, but also to address the fact that I have not previously studied political science. (As an undergrad I did most of my courses in creative writing and theatre, then completed a JD.) I took a few upper division polisci classes that I found very interesting, but they were: a) not what I was used to studying, 2) subject I lacked any background in, and c) not my priority. As a result, I have a political science GPA of 3.0 and no letters from political scientists. Also, it bears mention that because I already have law school debt, I have decided on a fairly low ceiling of additional expenses I'm willing to take on. I say this because I want you to understand that I am approaching the idea of a Master's differently than you should.

Here are some things to keep in mind:

1) Let's assume that you'll do as well in polisci as you've posited and that you'll get great letters. What would a master's degree tell the admissions committees about you that they don't already know? I think you can make valid arguments that it proves something, but you have to ask yourself if the returns are good enough for the investment.

2) Master's programs are expensive and funding is hard to come by. That will make one year programs like MAPSS attractive, but then you're back the returns question again. No faculty member will be able to write a letter in time to go straight to your Ph.D. program (but maybe you want a year or two to earn money; don't discount the value of some professional experience to temper your work ethic, either). Two years will give you better opportunities to know teachers and publish, but it will be another $70,000 if you don't barback at some crappy college pub while you're there.

3) What would happen if you stayed at your bachelor's for another year? Would taking a fifth year harm your application? (My thought is no, but how would I know?) What affect would another year of 3.8 have on your one reported GPA? Could you score some indy studies with your favorite profs and aim to publish something truly compelling? (No disrespect, but the average undergrad publication completely lacks discipline, partly because undergrads are so young and partly because they are so busy. Maybe in your fifth year those issues would fall away.)

There might be financial benefits to this course, too. The one year will be cheaper (without sacrificing faculty relationships; to the contrary, you build them). You might be able to take on some TA/RA positions that would earn money without pulling you away from the discipline (and, in fact, further bolstering your application). Moving is expensive in and of itself. Etc.

Just some stuff to chew on.

Thank you again for your comprehensive advice!

I did actually consider doing a fifth year and maybe I will add a History major or expand my Asian Studies minor to a supplementary major. The reason why I am considering it is that another two semesters can further minimize the impact of this frustrating semester on my GPA. And thank you for pointing out that with this additional year maybe I can come up with a better work to be published in a better journal, or at least further strengthen the connections I have with the faculty members. I do not have any at all funding issues, so I might also do a master.

If I am really determined for a fifth year, and then I will graduate with a better GPA so I will be confident enough to apply to phd directly. But if I still graduate with a GPA less than 3.7, I will just go to do a one year Master program.

Or would you say it is a good idea to do a fifth year as an undergrad and then apply to the phd program at my own school so that I can take another year here and get out with a Master of Arts and then apply to top 20 phd programs??

[GopherGrad]

Applying for the Ph.D. and bailing might be more complicated than you want, but certainly look into it. You could also just ask about terminal master's programs where you are. If you do five years with all that degree-age, get some solid recs and help with your SoP from a good prof, you'll be as competitive as anyone for a top 20, even with a GPA in the 3.6s. Although, again, this depends to some extent on your GRE scores.

The average GPAs I'm seeing are all in the .7 to .8 range at these schools, which means for every magna cum laude they are accepting a student with a 3.6. It's all about compelling qualitative qualifications after that.

[jazzrap]

Applying for the Ph.D. and bailing might be more complicated than you want, but certainly look into it. You could also just ask about terminal master's programs where you are. If you do five years with all that degree-age, get some solid recs and help with your SoP from a good prof, you'll be as competitive as anyone for a top 20, even with a GPA in the 3.6s. Although, again, this depends to some extent on your GRE scores.

The average GPAs I'm seeing are all in the .7 to .8 range at these schools, which means for every magna cum laude they are accepting a student with a 3.6. It's all about compelling qualitative qualifications after that.

Thank you.

[JMoo]

If you have a mediocre performance during your undergrad, then attend a good MA program and do well, that will most definitely help your chances in applying to a Ph.D. program. Also, I'm sure this varies from school to school, but in our program the admissions committee does not weed out applications by GPA or GRE, so if you have stellar letters and a great writing sample, you'll still be competitive.