(PLEASE HELP!) Counseling Psychology vs School Psychology vs Clinical Psychology vs LMSW/LCSW

[8215S]

Hi everyone,

So I wanted to ask your thoughts about counseling psychology and if it's worthwhile to pursue. I do live in NYC. I was accepted into St. John's School Psychology PsyD program. Many have told me that it is a great program and I'm highly considering it. The only way to get funding is through a graduate assistantship, which can potentially cover all of your tuition. The tuition without any assistance would be about $160,000 for 5 years. Although my interests did fit since I want to work with adolescents and young adults and even children sometimes, I've heard that working in a school environment isn't very good. The school system isn't very good even if you do get the same breaks as students and holidays as well as summers off. You do a lot of report writing, meetings, and testing. I find testing interesting but I've heard that working with administration and teachers can be frustrating. One of my professors even said that there is a stigma on how qualified school psychologists are depending on where they want to work. I'm not sure how true any of this really is so I wanted to ask someone's opinion on this. You can work in a hospital or private practice but do you earn the same salary and are you valued the same?

On the other hand, I was accepted into Fordhams Mental Health Counseling program, which gives me a scholarship amount of $4000-$5000 if I take 12-15 credits. I can also cover at least $5000 every semester through a graduate assistantship which would be about 6 hours every week. The tuition is $97,800 for 2 years, which is quite a lot. If I complete the program, I can have all of the credits transferred to Fordham's Counseling Psychology PhD program. Of course I'd have to be admitted into the program first, but I'd be an advanced standing student. That program is 6 years but I can shave off 2 years likely and study for only 4 years. For the PhD program you get tuition remission for 4 courses every year only if you do a graduate assistantship which would be 13 hours a week. So would that mean I'd be working part-time, would that be too much? Counseling psychology seems interesting to me and it's not that different from clinical psychology, which was my ultimate goal. Does this sound reasonable or is clinical psychology better or any other different program I mentioned? Is the earning potential different than a school or clinical psychologist?

My third choice was Hunter's MSW program in social work. It's a well-known program in NYC and it's cheap because it's a CUNY with a tuition of about $30,000 for 2 years. I chose the clinical track which emphasizes mental health a bit more. Social work is very broad and you can still do mental health, which seemed appealing to me. It does emphasize social justice and social policy which I can learn. You can sit for the LMSW exam after graduating and after 3 years of supervised experience you can become an LCSW. Plus, you'll be earning money during those 3 years of supervised clinical experience. Which in total would be 5 years, which is about the same length as the School Psychology PsyD program. I did hear from a professor that social workers burnout, but I think that all depends on where you work. Are LCSW's just as qualified as a Counseling Psychologist, can they do the same things? Is it worth it to pursue the doctorate for more potential opportunities. 

Please help because I need to make a decision soon and I would love to get some insight from anyone familiar with these programs. Thank you all!

[hbaylor63]

Hi! I know a lot about each field, but I know the most about social work. I'll do my best to answer all of your questions as transparently as possible. 

So, counseling psychology focuses more on helping "normal" people with "normal" problems, like coping with stress, anxiety disorders, and clinical depression. Licensed psychologists can do a few things that master's level clinicians can't do. Examples include ASD assessment and diagnosis, among other things. Medical professionals, schools, and the legal system often refer people to psychologists first. Sometimes psychologists will refer patients to other mental health clinicians (or potentially LMSWs) if they fit their needs. Overall, psychologists have more "power" and make a little bit more money (this varies in private practice, as in some (most?) states clinicians in all fields can choose their rates). You will be the "top dog" of the mental health field.

School psychologists are different in the sense that they often focus on disabilities, special education, ABA, etc. You can't diagnose and treat mental health disorders in the same way counseling or clinical psychologists can. This depends on the state you want to be licensed in, though. I've also heard that there is a stigma in schools because teachers often ignore suggestions because "you don't know what it's like to manage a classroom" - something I've heard from a teacher. It depends on the district. School psychologists are qualified, but that doesn't mean everyone will believe it, and to be fair, all mental health or related psychology fields experience some form of stigma.

The MHC program and its transferability sound like a good deal, assuming you're admitted to the Ph.D. program. Most graduate students have assistantships of some kind that can go up to 20 hours a week. I don't think it's too much, but you'll have to manage your time well. The main difference between counseling psychology and clinical psychology is that the latter usually deals with more serious mental health issues (schizophrenia, difficult personality disorders, etc.) whereas counseling psychologists tend to focus more on "normal people" struggling to cope with depression, stress, their career, and other "normal" problems.  You'll still learn many of the same things as clinical psychologists, and you're eligible for the same license. Many employers look at your license, not your Ph.D. program, unless you want to go into research or academia. Therefore, in clinical practice, your earning potential will be similar to that of clinical psychologists. Something I've noticed is that counseling psychology also tends to have a more holistic lens and a bend toward social justice. I'm not sure about school psychology because the things you do are different than clinical and counseling psychologists.

I LOVE social work for its versatility. If you discover that you don't like mental health counseling, you can easily switch to less clinical positions or even "macro" positions in policy and advocacy. As I said earlier, psychologists are usually the "top dog" in the field and can perform certain assessments that LCSWs, LPCs, and LMFTs can't. However, if you're really interested in counseling or value versatility, social work is a fantastic field. You can study all kinds of things and specialize in a variety of topics. Burnout depends entirely on your area of practice and your workplace. There's also a lot of stigma surrounding the field. We're more than child welfare and CPS (most social workers don't work for CPS), but lots of people don't know that. The pay is lower than psychology unless you acquire years of experience and enter private practice. In some states, you can charge your own rates. I know many LCSWs in private practice that are making six-figure salaries. Medical social workers tend to make a lot too. If you want to do research, social work PhDs are equally as versatile. However, there isn't a new license associated with a social work Ph.D.

Hopefully, this helps. I've worked alongside many professionals in various fields. Overall, psychologists make more money and people seem to value them more. I don't think that's fair, but that's the way it is. School psychologists don't do all the same things and aren't eligible for licensure as a licensed psychologist. The national license for school psychologists is the Nationally Certified School Psychologist (NCSP). Social work is the most versatile of all the fields you've mentioned. I also want to emphasize that licensing requirements and scope of practice vary by state.

[8215S]

@hbaylor63Hey! Thanks so much for all of your insight! I agree that social work is the most versatile. Since I was admitted into their clinical track I could do research related to mental health and then eventually get a PhD in clinical psychology or counseling psychology if I decide to not get an LCSW. Would this be a better option than choosing Fordham's MHC program and then going for their PhD in clinical psychology program which funds students for 4 years? I was also admitted into St. John's mental health counseling program and CCNY which is also a cheap MHC program. I also graduated from CCNY so I could easily get research and TA experience. But would going to a "better" school like Fordham increase my chances of getting into a PhD program in Fordham, Columbia, NYU, or St.John's for clinical psychology or counseling psychology?

[SchoolPsychBrit]

I’m getting my doctorate in school psychology and most of what is written above is inaccurate regarding licensure as a psychologist. As long as you meet licensure requirements (a graduate from an APA accredited program and internship would meet requirements for every state) you can take the EPPP to be licensed as a psychologist. All psychologists get the same license- you’d be a “licensed psychologist.” This doesn’t matter if you are a graduated from a program in school, clinical, or counseling psychology; they all get the same license. Since my school psych program is both APA accredited and NASP approved, I’ll be eligible for both the NCSP (good if you want to consult with schools) and licensure as a psychologist. I’ll have the same license that a psychologist from a clinical or counseling program would have. The “school” specialization just means that I have had courses on educational law, systems within schools, and academic interventions, which clinical and counseling psychologists would not have. However, clinical and counseling psychologists have more knowledge about counseling methods and personality disorders, generally. I actually plan on working as a licensed psychologist in a children’s hospital alongside other licensed psychologists who have graduated from school and clinical programs after I graduate.

At the same time, if you don’t want to be a licensed psychologist and you only want to work in a school setting, you can go to a graduate program that is only NASP approved and get the NCSP. With this, you are not allowed to practice anywhere but in schools.

[8215S]

@SchoolPsychBrit Hey! The program I'm in is also APA accredited and NASP approved. I have been told that you do get the same licensure at the end but if I want to branch out from just working in schools it may become more challenging because clinical and counseling psychology students are more competitive. They are also a bit more competitive for internships too. But my program has a very high APPIC internship match rate so I'm hoping that I won't need to worry too much about that. I hope that there won't be such a stigma against being from a school psychology program since the training is mainly for children and the younger population.