What are my chances?

[ngower81]

Hello, all. Okay, so I know everyone seems to be in fall 08 mode . . . but for those of us who are just now beginning the process and are looking to begin getting things ready for fall 09 (assuming I'm not the only one), I'd like to have some input on what my chances are of getting into a mid to top tier PhD Lit program. Here's what I'm looking at:

Undergrad English major with 4.0 GPA

MFA in Writing with discursive evaluation

1 publication in a very small literary journal (trying desperately to get more)

Really good references who are well-known, highly published teachers, and who know my work well

Good (I believe) critical writing sample

2 years undergrad composition teaching experience

Now, I know what everyone is waiting on before you can make any sort of accurate judgment . . . GRE scores. I am taking the general test later this month, so can't give them quite yet. However, if practice tests are any indication, I should get between 670-700 Verbal and around 650 Quant. I am still debating on whether to take the Subject test, depending on where I want to send apps.

One of my top choices is Vanderbilt because I love the area, and they have a great program and funding package. What do you think? Do I have a decent chance?

[engguy]

If you want to get into a top tier program you need to do better than 700 on the verbal part of the GRE, in my opinion. Why take it now? I would consider using the summer to bone up on the vocabulary and push that up 50 points or so. (Maybe not the whole summer, but enough time to study without it taking over your life.) The quant. score is great but pretty meaningless to phd programs in lit.

I know others will disagree -- there have been battles about scores on this forum before -- but all I can say is that if you have the time and you're not applying till next fall, why go in with a potential weak spot on your app.?

Everything else looks good. I came out of an MFA and got into 5/8 schools. What you don't mention, but what will be critical, is your SOP. It has to really make a good case for you and why you are a great fit for this or that program. There are a million different approaches, but all things being equal, that and obviously your letters are key.

best of luck!

[Minnesotan]

English departments are fickle. Send out lots of applications.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

I agree with engguy that you should spend the Summer working to boost your verbal GRE and learn how to get a 6.0 in writing. I've been reading on this forum about how competitive the English programs are, and you will want as flawless a record as you can muster. Good luck!

[BlueGrassBob]

I'm finally done with this process (into an English PhD program that fits me nicely), so it's nice to be giving advice to someone else for the first time.

Unless there's a compelling reason for you to take the GREs now, wait until the fall. As others have said, you're verbal score should be above 700. It's really just a vocabulary test, so the more time you spend with flashcards, the better you'll end up.

If you have plenty of time, take the subject test. It takes an enormous amount of studying to do well on that exam, so if you don't have the time, don't bother. I did very little studying for it, and guess what? Didn't exactly ace it, but it didn't hurt me too much in the end (good verbal scores made up for it, I think). Also keep in mind that many professors recognize the difficulty of the test and some even call it what it is--an expensive trivia test. It helps if you do well, but don't panic if you don't.

Apply broadly. You may love Vanderbilt, but you need to keep in mind that in some sense this whole process is a crapshoot. You may be an exceptional candidate, but it might not be in the cards for this admissions season. I'd recommend coming up with at least 10 schools. I applied to only five and one was an (MA), mostly because I kept psyching myself out or coming up with reasons not to apply or why the program wasn't a good fit. Guess how many admits I got? One. Luckily it was to a school that I liked, with good funding. It could have turned out quite differently.

You mentioned that you "believe" your writing sample is good. Why not try to get a little more input? If I had to do the process over, I'd definitely ask a professor to look over my sample. Page limits often mean you can't submit a complete undergraduate thesis (limits were often 20 or 25 pgs for my apps). Just having someone to talk to about what portions are the strongest would have been a great help for me.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the GRE writing score doesn't (or shouldn't) matter? These programs usually end up with 25+ pages of writing from each applicant; why do they need ETS telling them how good an applicant's writing is?

Have fun with it all. Drink plenty of beer. It helps.

[LaraAnn85]

However, if practice tests are any indication, I should get between 670-700 Verbal and around 650 Quant.

Practices tests are not an indication. On my last practice test I scored a 710 on verbal, when I took the real test I got a 540. Thankfully I'm in the sciences so it didn't really matter but still that's a huge difference!

[lalalacereza]

Yeah, on my last Q practice test I was in the 53rd percentile, but the actual result the next day was 73rd. Luckily for me it can swing either way!

[engguy]

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the GRE writing score doesn't (or shouldn't) matter? These programs usually end up with 25+ pages of writing from each applicant; why do they need ETS telling them how good an applicant's writing is?

My thoughts exactly. I got burned on this because I didn't really look over the practice materials too carefully, and was embarrassed to get a 5.0 -- especially since I knew the people grading it were basically my peers, graduate student TAs. Luckily I aced the verbal, and figured my writing sample and SOP were really what they'd be looking at. In contrast to this, I had a friend who got 6.0 on the writing but gagged on the verbal, and had a much tougher time with admissions this year.

I didn't take the subject test, but I wouldn't recommend doing this. I managed to get accepted at 2 schools that required it, but there's no telling whether my not taking it factored in to getting denied at some others. If you are applying at 7-10 places, there's simply no way that some of them won't require the subject test. And if you do get in, you'll have to take it anyway. But I'd agree that the actual score is not terribly important.

Also a good point from the previous two posters -- your practice scores are not necessarily a good indication of how you'll do on test day. You could do way better or much worse depending on how nervous you are and what kind of Q's they throw at you. That's why you should practice until you are consistently getting no more than 1 or 2 wrong per practice unit.

ALSO-- because of the computer-based testing, you can take it pretty much anytime and have your scores instantly. I didn't take the GRE till the end of November. So there's really no hurry.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

I would say that the writing section matters, but only in that they don't want to see an exceptionally low score. A score below 5 for someone who wants to study language or literature would raise some question marks.

You definitely don't want to be below the 50 to 60 percentile in any section, even though I'm guessing the quant score is pretty meaningless to most humanities programs.

[Minnesotan]

We've had this conversation before, but I think the GRE is mainly used as an additional tool for finding red flags in an application. As long as you hit some minimum marks (for English, I would aim for 700v, 5.5w, 550q), you should be fine. I did extremely well on mine, and it may or may not have helped me. This year, just like in 2006, I had mixed results with my applications. I wasn't one of those cats who gets in everywhere, but I did get a few offers with funding.

Most people say o the GRE that it can't help you, but it can hurt you. I would tweak that a bit and say, the GRE can hurt you, but it can also help you if you scored an 800v (and you're applying in English or certain humanities fields). The likelihood of it being the reason you were chosen is very low, but it might act as a good tiebreaker, or it might be something that sets you apart from the crowd a bit. Who knows?

I still maintain that the grad application process is a crap shoot.

[UndraftedFreeAgent]

I still maintain that the grad application process is a crap shoot.

I still envision a prof aiming a shotgun at a toilet. The Mythbusters showed that shooting fish in a barrel isn't that easy, I wonder if shooting a crap is any different.

[ngower81]

A big thanks to all of you for some helpful info. Point well taken about waiting longer to take the GRE . . . the reason I scheduled to take it next month is, in all my over-zealousness to hurry the process (which can't/shouldn't be done, I know), I started some pretty intense test prep about a month ago, and I feel like there is a finite amount of time one can prepare before the wheels just start spinning. I feel pretty good about taking it next month, as I still have several weeks to go, and I have been steadily improving each week in my test prep.

Anyone have some good, practical advice on the SOP? From what I have seen, it seems that good SOP's intend to be captivating, but not too terribly anecdotal. They also seem to be very specific, and show knowledge about the program. Anything else that could help? I pride myself on my writing abilities . . . but so does everyone else applying for a Lit PhD, so what will make me stand out?

[Minnesotan]

Showing them that you are a good fit with the depatment is probably the most important part of the SoP. Don't try to be too clever or cute -- just illustrate that you are ideal for their program.

[BlueGrassBob]

Anyone have some good, practical advice on the SOP? From what I have seen, it seems that good SOP's intend to be captivating, but not too terribly anecdotal. They also seem to be very specific, and show knowledge about the program. Anything else that could help? I pride myself on my writing abilities . . . but so does everyone else applying for a Lit PhD, so what will make me stand out?

Like you said, don't make a fuss out of your writing abilities. Anyone looking to get a PhD in English should be a stellar writer. It's far better to give them a well-written sample and SOP than it is to say you're a great writer in your SOP.

Use the search function on the forums here and over at the Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com/forums/), and you'll come up plenty of SOP advice. Be program-specific in regards to your research interests. When describing your previous work, make it clear that you're ready for graduate-level study. Be sure to make reference to your teaching experience. Many people applying with a BA won't have that much experience teaching full courses (I came from a small liberal arts school--no TAs, except maybe for the really large intro science courses--so the best I had was plenty of tutoring experience; I imagine quite a few are in a similar situation). Get someone familiar with the admissions process to take a look at it.

Good luck with the GRE. If you think you're prepared, might as well go for it. If you don't score all that well, you have plenty of time to take it again (but that won't happen, of course). Do take a minute to look at what they want for the writing section. They aren't grading you on the writing; they're grading you on your ability to construct an argument according to their rules. Did you get the CD that ETS sends with practice tests? On that there should be multiple examples of essays sorted by the score they received. Just take a look at the 5, 5.5, and 6 ones and note the differences between them. You'll see pretty quickly what you need to do to score well.