Figuring Out Loans

[twentyeleven]

With acceptances and aid/funding packages rolling it, many of us are now at the moment of truth: selecting a school. There are numerous factors to take into account: Where did I feel a connection? Which program seems like the best fit for me? What city/town do I want to be in? What reputations do these schools have? How are the facilities and faculty? What size is the program? And perhaps the hardest question of all, How much will it cost or am I willing to go into debt?

Whether you feel like you're willing to take out $10k in loans or $50k, it's worth figuring out what you'll actually end up owing. Remember, you have to pay off the principal plus accumulating interest. I've found this student loan calculator to be immensely helpful: http://apps.collegeb...fincalc/sla.jsp

It accounts for various types of loans, their interest rates, and what you can be expected to pay for the 10 ensuing years after you've received your MFA. Yes, there are some loan forgiveness programs, but it's probably not a good idea to depend on something like that. You should thoroughly understand your debt and what that means every month for the 120+ months after school.

For example, suppose you're eligible for the full Federal Stafford loan ($20,500 per year, only $8,500 of which may be subsidized) at a 6.8% interest rate. Say that's all that you're going to borrow–$20,500 per year, $41,000 total. Using the student loan calculator to account for interest, over a ten year payback plan, you'll actually end up paying the principal of $42,000 plus $15,620 in interest for a grand total of $56,620. Broken down monthly, you'd owe $472 a month for the 10 years (120 months) following graduation. And remember, if you have a longer payback term, like 25 years, you're paying interest for an additional 15 years which means you'll end up owing even more.

Suppose $20,500 per year isn't enough to cover the cost of tuition. You might then want to investigate the GradPLUS loan, but keep in mind that this loan requires good credit and an application process. If you do get it, the interest rate is also higher at 7.9%. If you're not eligible for the GradPLUS loan, you're faced with private loans which have notoriously high interest rates and bad terms.

In addition to paying for tuition and fees, you also have to account for the cost the living. To help myself better understand what that could potentially mean, I researched the following for rough figures:

- rent (including first, last, security)

- utilities (heat, gas, water, electricity)

- cell phone

- food

- health insurance (available through school)

- internet (for apartment)

- travel (locally; public transportation)

- travel (visits home)

- supplies

If you have a car or pets, those are obviously other expenses. I also didn't even account for 'spending money,' so this would be a pretty basic, frugal list. You also need to consider, Do I want to live alone or with roommates? How much can I actually work at a part-time job? The point of going back to school, usually, is to completely throw yourself into your work–having a job beyond TAing could seriously detract from your ability to focus on your art. If you haven't saved enough to live off of for two years, you'll have to build that into what you need to borrow. If you resort to credit card usage, you're playing with dangerously high interest rates, as high as 19%.

I'm not writing any of this to try to dissuade people from taking loans, but simply because when I looked at my offers, I realized that the debt just might not be worth it. I asked myself, are two years of awesomeness at a "big name" school worth ten or more of big bills and struggle? An MFA, even from the best school, guarantees nothing. I began asking myself, if I take loans, how will I pay for supplies after school? Will I even be able to stay in the city I attended school in? I realized that I'd probably have to give up travel, something I think is important for seeing new work and informing my own. I'd also probably have to take whatever crappy job I could find right away which wouldn't allow me to put that new MFA to good use. Moreover, that crap job still might not even allow me to cover the full monthly loan payment meaning prolonging–and increasing–the debt.

In the end, it's a really personal decision, but I think having some cold, hard numbers really helped me to put things into perspective and turn an abstract idea into something more concrete. I now have a better idea of how much debt I'm realistically prepared and willing to take on. I hope someone else finds the calculator as helpful as I have! Above all, make sure you choose on school based on what you think suits you best, and not the name. Good luck in deciding and even more luck on this wonderful adventure you're about to embark on!

Edited March 24, 2011 by twentyeleven

[ebihal]

just curious--how much is everyone planning to take out in loans?

i would need to borrow 50k for my top choice.

[Cobalt]

@twentyeleven: thank you so much for posting the calculator. This is the issue that I am dealing with right now myself. Before I got accepted into any MFA programs, I was willing to borrow whatever it would take to get me what I wanted (the MFA degree). This has been a lifelong goal of mine and I will feel I am letting myself down by not following through. However, accruing that much debt may not be worth the slave to the debt that I will most likely become. For the school that has given me the most money, so far, I would have to borrow $61,000. This does not even include the loans I would have to take out to pay for living expenses. Tacking on that additional amount could end up totaling $100K - $140K. Add the accrued interest, this could total up to $190K. If I were to return to my current job after the MFA, I would have to pay upwards of $1600 month to repay the loans. I would not be able to afford renting a studio space like I do now. This is just ludicrous. Getting an MFA is a total crap shoot in terms of the benefits you will reap after. This is making me think I should look into the low residency programs because I could at least keep my current job and pay for some of it as I go along. Harumph!

[poorstudent]

I am planning to take out $0. I will go fully funded (including stipend) or I do not go. If will not be fully funded, I will apply next year to go to either Canada using my Canadian citizenship or moving back to Europe after ten years and using my EU citizenship to apply to a European MFA program. I am an international student so an MFA in the US is double the cost than for a US citizen and I am not allowed to work on student visa (except teaching assistantship or research assistantship). But if I were a US citizen it would be still a horrendous price to pay for an MFA.

A big warning to everyone who intends to take out loans for an MFA: an MFA is not a medical degree, law degree, engineering degree or a computer science degree which would guarantee you decent job and income after you graduate and the possibility to pay back your loans within a reasonable timeframe while still having an appropriate quality of life. An MFA is a soft degree. Very few artists will make it as a full time artist and earn decent income even a decade or two after earning their MFA. I worked with hundreds of artists (US, Canadian and international artists) in the last several years when managing four public galleries as my daytime job (while studying for my BFA full time in the night) and I had the privilege to earn their trust and gain an insight into their careers and lives so I know what I am talking about. For those US artists who studied for their MFA after already having a career in a different field like medical field which allowed them to save money for their MFA studies while still having to take out some minimal loans, their decision paid off. Once they earned their MFA degree they went back to their former profession (medical, engineering, etc.), earned enough to quickly pay off their debt in about 3 years and had money to invest into their own art making to develop their practice. Then they applied to teaching positions at universities and eventually got assistant professor positions. They have an active artist career, gallery representation in New York and other cities and teaching position.

The jobs you can take with an MFA are generally low paying and stressful jobs. Managing a gallery, working with board members, artists, the general public, city officials is a high stress job with low pay and leaves little room to your own art making as the job sucks the life out of you. In fact you don’t need an MFA to get those jobs. You rather need to accumulate work experience and be in the know. You need to volunteer a hell of a lot and I mean hundreds and hundreds of hours year after year so you can learn about yourself what kind of job you would enjoy and through your volunteer work to develop your network of professional connections including artists, curators, educators and cultural workers. If you work with someone they will get to know you and if you are hard working and you work well with people once a job opens you will be the one they offer the job. Also curators who have a working relationship with you through your volunteer work, will be happy to look at your portfolio and advise you privately or even at some point consider your work in a group show. Curators have amazing memory. I did get email from a curator a year after I showed her my work and she asked for a specific work for a group show.

I volunteered more than 300 hours every year both in high end public galleries and grassroot arts organizations while working full time in the cultural field and studying full time. (I actually got all my paid works in the cultural field through my volunteer work.)

The only type of work you probably really need an MFA is a teaching position in an art school at the university level. (It does not pay that much either but they allow you to make art too and you have access to state of the art facilities). But if you are an accomplished artist with significant exhibition records, catalogues under your belt, articles in Artforum and your work are in prestigious collections, MFA does not count. You might just decide to take an alternative route and use your BFA and connections through volunteer work to get a job in the cultural field without going into debt for an MFA but also making an utmost commitment to your own art making to create work and develop your understanding of contemporary art by going to exhibitions, meeting reputable artists and learn from them, go to public lectures of visiting artists in the universities in your area and work as a volunteer with reputable curators and learn from them. By doing all these activities at the end your work will definitely develop and exhibitions will start lining up. But there is no success without hard work and ambition. To make at least a modestly satisfying career in the art world you need talent, ambition, connections, hard work and luck. Luck can be facilitated by meeting the right people at the right time meaning you do your research to see which curators you would like to work with, which artists you would like to get to know personally, which gallery you would like to exhibit in, which fits to your artistic work and go to their events and volunteer for them to increase you potential for lucky situations to occur.

Many people in the Gradcafe forum think that getting into a prestigious art school’s MFA program is validation of artistic talent. It is not. The universities are profit centers, they need your money. The real cost of education and the tuition fees you pay have no connections. Tuitions are high because they need to generate profit.

For an artist conceptual validation comes from public galleries through exhibitions and catalogues and financial validation comes from the commercial galleries. The two systems work together in an intricate, delicate relationship. You probably noticed if you live in New York (or by that matter anywhere else) if a contemporary artist exhibit there or in your own city in a major public gallery, the commercial gallery which represents her/his work also mounts a solo show of the artist’s work. Instead of an MFA an artist’s ambition should be focused on developing a cohesive body of work, developing professional network, developing the ability to situate their artistic practice in a contemporary context and articulate it which will then eventually lead to exhibitions, catalogues, gallery representations and publicity.

You probably now wonder that if I do not think MFA is so important, then why on earth did I apply to an MFA program? My answer is simple: I want to have two years in my life when I can concentrate fully on art making and have access to state of the art studios instead of working my butt out for others and doing my own art in the night. My works are already in reputable public collections (They bought them; I never donate art). The works I created in the last two years put me on the map but it was incredibly hard while working full time, studying full time and volunteering. (I love volunteering by the way so it is not a complain. This is how I met inspiring great artists.) I know that if I will have two years uninterrupted time in my life to create art, I will be set for life as an artist and I will never have to work full time. I still want to work part time. But no one can be an artist with mountains of debt. I do not have any savings - art making cost money - but I do not have debt either and I have no intention to accumulate debt. If there would be a collector or art patron or a gallerist who would offer me a personal grant, who would rent a studio for me for two years and pay my expenses for two years I would happily accept that instead of an MFA because it would allow me to have that uninterrupted two years that I dream of to dedicate to art making.

I am very busy now with finishing my final project for my BFA degree which I will get in April but I am planning to put together an artist resource website during the summer particularly for emerging artists which would also include articles on specific subjects from my own work experiences and also resources and link to other useful articles in other websites and it will include a discussion forum as well. I will also invite artist friends (mid career) to talk candidly about the challenges they faced in establishing their own artistic career and what helped them along the way. Once it is up and running (I estimate it will be around end of July) I will definitely will put up a post here so you will be able to go to that site and access lots of useful information. My vision for the website is to serve as a free online course for lifelong learning in professional practices geared toward the emerging artist. (When I say emerging I mean it as a career phase, I don’t necessarily mean it as young in physical age. You can be 60 year old and just starting out or in an early phase of your career so you are still emerging.) So even if you will be admitted to an MFA program by then and happily or not so happily you go into debt to attend your dream school, it will be still an excellent source for you for lifelong free learning in professional practices.

just curious--how much is everyone planning to take out in loans?

i would need to borrow 50k for my top choice.

[Cobalt]

@poorstudent: thanks for your perspective, I really appreciate it.

[twentyeleven]

Generally, state and public schools have far greater opportunities for full-funding. Even if you just browse through this year's posts, you'll see that many people have received full packages, some pretty highly ranked to boot (University of Indiana, University of Illinois Urbana, Rutgers, University of California, Tyler, etc). Private schools occasionally have these opportunities, though they're much more limited (for example, SAIC offers one person in each department a full ride). When applying, it's best to consider funding right off bat–try to find a program that really suits you and has money to throw your way.

I know it's hard to even imagine turning down your dream school, but also try imagining life beyond that–how to live and pay for art supplies/studios, not to mention basic needs like food and rent. The most important thing to remember when deciding whether or how much debt to take on is that you always end up owing more than you borrow. I think that's the biggest thing people over look. If you borrow $100k, you're going to owe significantly more than that and could spend the next 10, 20, 30 years chipping away at it. Are 2 or 3 years of grad school worth it? I'm not anti-loans–I took them out for undergrad–but I would only borrow a small amount that I could anticipate paying back in 5 years or so for grad school (probably cap at about $20k). I want my future to be focused on art making, not exorbitant loan payments.

[Cobalt]

Here's another site to consider, if you are eligible for Income-Based Repayment plans (IBR) or Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF). For example if you were to end up teaching for a state university, for ten years, the remaining loan amount could be forgiven (I would talk to a loan counselor about this, though):

http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html#eligible

[twentyeleven]

Definitely good to know, but keep in mind:

IBR

- This is only in regard to Federal loans (full list here), not just any loans you take out.

- You have to have enough debt relative to your income to qualify for a reduced payment. That means it would take more than 15 percent of whatever you earn above 150% of poverty level to pay off your loans on a standard 10-year payment plan. (You can use their calculator to see if you're eligible.)

- Forgiveness after 25 years of qualifying payments.

PSLF (Public Service Loan Forgiveness)

- Only good for Federal Stafford, GradPLUS, or consolidated loans in the Direct Loan program.

- Requires 10 years/120 qualifying payments while working at an eligible job full time.

Non-profit/education sector jobs don't pay a lot (remember, you still have to be attempting to pay off your loans with 'qualifying payments' if you hope to have them forgiven), might be tricky to come by, and sometimes lack job security. Just things to keep in mind!

Thanks, @Cobalt, for posting. Good food for thought. Options are good.

Here's another site to consider, if you are eligible for Income-Based Repayment plans (IBR) or Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF). For example if you were to end up teaching for a state university, for ten years, the remaining loan amount could be forgiven (I would talk to a loan counselor about this, though):

http://www.ibrinfo.o...p.html#eligible

[nimda]

poorstudent- Even with a full ride you would be a poorstudent. You shouldn't go to grad school even if you are fully funded. I have seen others thinking about it just as you do - and they have a negative impact on the spirit of other artists in a program - and you seem to have zero interest in the school part of grad school. it sounds like what you are looking for is a residency. Also - just because you give up a spot in a program and funding - doesn't necessarily mean that it will be redistributed. Schools admit more students, and offer more dollars than they have; expecting that not everyone will accept the offer.

I am planning to take out $0. I will go fully funded (including stipend) or I do not go. If will not be fully funded, I will apply next year to go to either Canada using my Canadian citizenship or moving back to Europe after ten years and using my EU citizenship to apply to a European MFA program. I am an international student so an MFA in the US is double the cost than for a US citizen and I am not allowed to work on student visa (except teaching assistantship or research assistantship). But if I were a US citizen it would be still a horrendous price to pay for an MFA.

A big warning to everyone who intends to take out loans for an MFA: an MFA is not a medical degree, law degree, engineering degree or a computer science degree which would guarantee you decent job and income after you graduate and the possibility to pay back your loans within a reasonable timeframe while still having an appropriate quality of life. An MFA is a soft degree. Very few artists will make it as a full time artist and earn decent income even a decade or two after earning their MFA. I worked with hundreds of artists (US, Canadian and international artists) in the last several years when managing four public galleries as my daytime job (while studying for my BFA full time in the night) and I had the privilege to earn their trust and gain an insight into their careers and lives so I know what I am talking about. For those US artists who studied for their MFA after already having a career in a different field like medical field which allowed them to save money for their MFA studies while still having to take out some minimal loans, their decision paid off. Once they earned their MFA degree they went back to their former profession (medical, engineering, etc.), earned enough to quickly pay off their debt in about 3 years and had money to invest into their own art making to develop their practice. Then they applied to teaching positions at universities and eventually got assistant professor positions. They have an active artist career, gallery representation in New York and other cities and teaching position.

The jobs you can take with an MFA are generally low paying and stressful jobs. Managing a gallery, working with board members, artists, the general public, city officials is a high stress job with low pay and leaves little room to your own art making as the job sucks the life out of you. In fact you don’t need an MFA to get those jobs. You rather need to accumulate work experience and be in the know. You need to volunteer a hell of a lot and I mean hundreds and hundreds of hours year after year so you can learn about yourself what kind of job you would enjoy and through your volunteer work to develop your network of professional connections including artists, curators, educators and cultural workers. If you work with someone they will get to know you and if you are hard working and you work well with people once a job opens you will be the one they offer the job. Also curators who have a working relationship with you through your volunteer work, will be happy to look at your portfolio and advise you privately or even at some point consider your work in a group show. Curators have amazing memory. I did get email from a curator a year after I showed her my work and she asked for a specific work for a group show.

I volunteered more than 300 hours every year both in high end public galleries and grassroot arts organizations while working full time in the cultural field and studying full time. (I actually got all my paid works in the cultural field through my volunteer work.)

The only type of work you probably really need an MFA is a teaching position in an art school at the university level. (It does not pay that much either but they allow you to make art too and you have access to state of the art facilities). But if you are an accomplished artist with significant exhibition records, catalogues under your belt, articles in Artforum and your work are in prestigious collections, MFA does not count. You might just decide to take an alternative route and use your BFA and connections through volunteer work to get a job in the cultural field without going into debt for an MFA but also making an utmost commitment to your own art making to create work and develop your understanding of contemporary art by going to exhibitions, meeting reputable artists and learn from them, go to public lectures of visiting artists in the universities in your area and work as a volunteer with reputable curators and learn from them. By doing all these activities at the end your work will definitely develop and exhibitions will start lining up. But there is no success without hard work and ambition. To make at least a modestly satisfying career in the art world you need talent, ambition, connections, hard work and luck. Luck can be facilitated by meeting the right people at the right time meaning you do your research to see which curators you would like to work with, which artists you would like to get to know personally, which gallery you would like to exhibit in, which fits to your artistic work and go to their events and volunteer for them to increase you potential for lucky situations to occur.

Many people in the Gradcafe forum think that getting into a prestigious art school’s MFA program is validation of artistic talent. It is not. The universities are profit centers, they need your money. The real cost of education and the tuition fees you pay have no connections. Tuitions are high because they need to generate profit.

For an artist conceptual validation comes from public galleries through exhibitions and catalogues and financial validation comes from the commercial galleries. The two systems work together in an intricate, delicate relationship. You probably noticed if you live in New York (or by that matter anywhere else) if a contemporary artist exhibit there or in your own city in a major public gallery, the commercial gallery which represents her/his work also mounts a solo show of the artist’s work. Instead of an MFA an artist’s ambition should be focused on developing a cohesive body of work, developing professional network, developing the ability to situate their artistic practice in a contemporary context and articulate it which will then eventually lead to exhibitions, catalogues, gallery representations and publicity.

You probably now wonder that if I do not think MFA is so important, then why on earth did I apply to an MFA program? My answer is simple: I want to have two years in my life when I can concentrate fully on art making and have access to state of the art studios instead of working my butt out for others and doing my own art in the night. My works are already in reputable public collections (They bought them; I never donate art). The works I created in the last two years put me on the map but it was incredibly hard while working full time, studying full time and volunteering. (I love volunteering by the way so it is not a complain. This is how I met inspiring great artists.) I know that if I will have two years uninterrupted time in my life to create art, I will be set for life as an artist and I will never have to work full time. I still want to work part time. But no one can be an artist with mountains of debt. I do not have any savings - art making cost money - but I do not have debt either and I have no intention to accumulate debt. If there would be a collector or art patron or a gallerist who would offer me a personal grant, who would rent a studio for me for two years and pay my expenses for two years I would happily accept that instead of an MFA because it would allow me to have that uninterrupted two years that I dream of to dedicate to art making.

I am very busy now with finishing my final project for my BFA degree which I will get in April but I am planning to put together an artist resource website during the summer particularly for emerging artists which would also include articles on specific subjects from my own work experiences and also resources and link to other useful articles in other websites and it will include a discussion forum as well. I will also invite artist friends (mid career) to talk candidly about the challenges they faced in establishing their own artistic career and what helped them along the way. Once it is up and running (I estimate it will be around end of July) I will definitely will put up a post here so you will be able to go to that site and access lots of useful information. My vision for the website is to serve as a free online course for lifelong learning in professional practices geared toward the emerging artist. (When I say emerging I mean it as a career phase, I don’t necessarily mean it as young in physical age. You can be 60 year old and just starting out or in an early phase of your career so you are still emerging.) So even if you will be admitted to an MFA program by then and happily or not so happily you go into debt to attend your dream school, it will be still an excellent source for you for lifelong free learning in professional practices.

[I Paint Faces]

I still am struggling with this whole thing. I know reputation doesn't matter much in the end, except perhaps to get your foot in the door for a job as a professor, but I'm wondering if the more "prestigious" schools can perhaps help me to develop my work and push myself more than the other schools. For example on the one hand there is U Mass, Dartmouth, a lovely program that is small and centered in a newly renovated building separate from the ugly main campus, which has offered me a graduate assistantship which covers my tuition plus a $3,500 stipend, and on the other hand there is SMFA/Tufts, number 22 out of painting schools, a larger program with apparently wonderful faculty, which has offered me a small sum of money that still leaves me to come up with about $26,000 a year. How in debt do I go, will I be able to pay it back? Will SMFA provide a stronger/larger artist community with more resources (Boston VS New Bedford) that will in the end push me to become a better artist and therefore potentially do better once I get out (as an artist or professor) and be able to pay my debt off? Or is Dartmouth the better choice because I don't have to risk debt (much besides living costs, also cheaper in New Bedford than Boston)?

I feel like all of these questions have answers but I just can't find them yet. Hopefully by April 15th I will though... It's just not simple is it everyone?

[ArhEmBea]

I still am struggling with this whole thing. I know reputation doesn't matter much in the end, except perhaps to get your foot in the door for a job as a professor, but I'm wondering if the more "prestigious" schools can perhaps help me to develop my work and push myself more than the other schools. For example on the one hand there is U Mass, Dartmouth, a lovely program that is small and centered in a newly renovated building separate from the ugly main campus, which has offered me a graduate assistantship which covers my tuition plus a $3,500 stipend, and on the other hand there is SMFA/Tufts, number 22 out of painting schools, a larger program with apparently wonderful faculty, which has offered me a small sum of money that still leaves me to come up with about $26,000 a year. How in debt do I go, will I be able to pay it back? Will SMFA provide a stronger/larger artist community with more resources (Boston VS New Bedford) that will in the end push me to become a better artist and therefore potentially do better once I get out (as an artist or professor) and be able to pay my debt off? Or is Dartmouth the better choice because I don't have to risk debt (much besides living costs, also cheaper in New Bedford than Boston)?

I feel like all of these questions have answers but I just can't find them yet. Hopefully by April 15th I will though... It's just not simple is it everyone?

I am struggling with exactly the same choice. I was all about the SMFA, but lumping all that loan debt on top of my undergrad loans is currently giving me panic attacks. I went to UMass for undergrad and am a little tired of it, but it's sooooooooooooooo cheeeeeeeeap. Then again, I had to give up on my dream school for undergrad because of the money and kinda feel like I will hate myself if I do again. IT SUCKS.

[I Paint Faces]

I am struggling with exactly the same choice. I was all about the SMFA, but lumping all that loan debt on top of my undergrad loans is currently giving me panic attacks. I went to UMass for undergrad and am a little tired of it, but it's sooooooooooooooo cheeeeeeeeap. Then again, I had to give up on my dream school for undergrad because of the money and kinda feel like I will hate myself if I do again. IT SUCKS.

Wow that's crazy that you are deciding on the same thing. How did you like UMass as an undergrad? It seems like the grad program being in New Bedford in a separate building is pretty cool and a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the main campus. It seems to me like the faculty are great and that the work is more figurative than at SMFA (and I am a figurative artist), but I'm thinking SMFA might push me more out of my comfort zone and I like the sort of craziness of their studio space and having that many more students around you. I can't really find personal information on people's opinions on either of their grad programs, just undergrad. I feel like we should just go for it and me like loans no problem we'll just pay them off when we are selling our work for millions, but it's hard to feel that way at this point. Also, do you have any thoughts on New Bedford. I emailed a few of the grad students but neither of them lived right there. It seems kind of up and coming, but I'm struggling to assess how much "worse" it may be for opportunities to see and show artwork than Boston itself (not that it's that far away). Anyway, GOOD LUCK!

[designr]

What do you guys think about asking a school for money? Or to re-consider offering you some $$?

I mean... what if there is scholarship money that was awarded to a student that declines that school.. who does that go to?

[ArhEmBea]

I went to UMass Boston actually, not Dartmouth, for undergrad. The program at UMB isn't great, plus I worked full time through undergrad, so my big treat to myself would be to take my two years of grad school to devote to art making after working so hard through undergrad. Not sure how much of a treat it is when I'm wigging out over the possibility of $100,000 of debt (UG and GR) when I'm done. It is a lot of money and quite intimidating for someone who's been supporting myself since I was a teenager.

The SMFA's program is way better suited for my type of work, and the whole interdisciplinary thing makes me giddy since I love trying new media and new things in general. I love the program over there, have since I decided to apply, so now I just don't want to not go.

The facilities at UMD do seem nice. They keep saying they're revitalizing New Bedford, but in reality that whole area (NB, Fall River, etc) is one of the dumpiest parts of Massachusetts. New Beford is an hour's drive from Boston, if you're lucky with traffic. I'm depressed enough I have to move out of Boston; not working in Boston or being there ever might be too much for me. Not sure if it's $100,000 too much for me though. I'm currently trying to convince myself I'll get a faculty job in a public university right away and be freed from the loans after 10 years... YEAH RIGHT.

I did get to talk to one of the grad students at UMD when I visited, and she seemed pretty into the program there. Of course, I didn't ask her if she applied to other schools or whatever either. It seems like the program's very loosely structured (like, a LOT of independent work time), and the studios are even smaller than SMFA. So, I don't know. Good luck to you too. I feel like we need it haha.

Wow that's crazy that you are deciding on the same thing. How did you like UMass as an undergrad? It seems like the grad program being in New Bedford in a separate building is pretty cool and a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the main campus. It seems to me like the faculty are great and that the work is more figurative than at SMFA (and I am a figurative artist), but I'm thinking SMFA might push me more out of my comfort zone and I like the sort of craziness of their studio space and having that many more students around you. I can't really find personal information on people's opinions on either of their grad programs, just undergrad. I feel like we should just go for it and me like loans no problem we'll just pay them off when we are selling our work for millions, but it's hard to feel that way at this point. Also, do you have any thoughts on New Bedford. I emailed a few of the grad students but neither of them lived right there. It seems kind of up and coming, but I'm struggling to assess how much "worse" it may be for opportunities to see and show artwork than Boston itself (not that it's that far away). Anyway, GOOD LUCK!

[tsu]

I am planning to take out $0. I will go fully funded (including stipend) or I do not go. If will not be fully funded, I will apply next year to go to either Canada using my Canadian citizenship or moving back to Europe after ten years and using my EU citizenship to apply to a European MFA program. I am an international student so an MFA in the US is double the cost than for a US citizen and I am not allowed to work on student visa (except teaching assistantship or research assistantship). But if I were a US citizen it would be still a horrendous price to pay for an MFA.

(truncated)

You probably now wonder that if I do not think MFA is so important, then why on earth did I apply to an MFA program? My answer is simple: I want to have two years in my life when I can concentrate fully on art making and have access to state of the art studios instead of working my butt out for others and doing my own art in the night. My works are already in reputable public collections (They bought them; I never donate art). The works I created in the last two years put me on the map but it was incredibly hard while working full time, studying full time and volunteering. (I love volunteering by the way so it is not a complain. This is how I met inspiring great artists.) I know that if I will have two years uninterrupted time in my life to create art, I will be set for life as an artist and I will never have to work full time. I still want to work part time. But no one can be an artist with mountains of debt. I do not have any savings - art making cost money - but I do not have debt either and I have no intention to accumulate debt. If there would be a collector or art patron or a gallerist who would offer me a personal grant, who would rent a studio for me for two years and pay my expenses for two years I would happily accept that instead of an MFA because it would allow me to have that uninterrupted two years that I dream of to dedicate to art making.

I'm an international student and you can definitely get a student working visa. The maximum hours is 21 per week though, but it's still pretty decent considering the study workload would take most of the week anyway.

I also think you should consider getting a residency instead. If all you want is studio space and you have a decent body of work - contact me via PM, I know a few people who run residencies.... you'll basically live in the studio and produce your own work without the hassle of completing extra coursework. An MFA isn't really about making art, it's about exploring the possibilties and experimenting further with your personal vision while collaborating or being guided by a tutor (plus cousework and projects in a structured enviroment, you won't nessescarily have the freedom to create what you want). It's very very very different. Like for me, I'm doing an MFA because I'm moving to a different medium and 'level' of my own art. Like you, I've done my own shows and sold work, but I think it's time to move on..... so I want to take on the research and study again and maybe redefine my personal vision. Not so much about creating, but contemplating.

I mostly agree with the rest, although you make it sound much harsher than it is. I've never done any gallery volunteering or put so many hours, nor did I have so much trouble establishing a career. (All I did was have a folio, cold-call a lot of people and started putting on shows. By the 5th or 6th show, it was cake.)

[NWT1983]

Also, in response to poorstudent I wouldn't say that MFA's are pure money generating machines. If anything it's the undergrad programs which generate the money to pay for the grad programs. We were told at an orientation that each grad student at Yale painting costs over 100,000 dollars per year, (or maybe it was that amount over two years) either way the tuition (which is exorbitant) doesn't even come close to the cost. I agree with what others have said, poorstudent can use the grad program as a residency, but they are very different things, and going into a grad program you should expect and want your work to change, rather then a further refining of what you've already done... Use it anyway that works though, getting paid to work at this is a privilege either way.

Anyway, poorstudent, it was a thoughtful post, thanks (you did come off as a bit smug though)

[twentyeleven]

Interesting NYTimes article on student debt (pros, cons, current economic climate): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/education/12college.html?_r=1&hp

[I Paint Faces]

What do you guys think about asking a school for money? Or to re-consider offering you some $$?

I mean... what if there is scholarship money that was awarded to a student that declines that school.. who does that go to?

I've been trying it. I think it can't be a bad thing to politely ask. I also lever my other choices a bit, such as "well I just got my package from BLAH and they offered BLAH/full funding/me quite abit. I really rather go to your school, but I just can't go for that amount, is there anyway you might be able to help me out." I think it helps and I was told by one school specifically that when people decline there is more money floating around and they gave me a contact to talk too. Good luck!

[Eraserhead]

I actually did a year in an MFA program at a state school. In case you think a "full-ride" pays for everything and you'll have ZERO debt, you may want to reconsider. For example, most schools will still require you to pay all the extra fees on your own which can add up to thousands in some cases. Generally, the package you get is a "tuition remission" which is either partial or full, depending on many factors. There are usually multiple levels of funding for grads, some partial and some full assistantships. If you get a teaching assistantship (generally only at state schools) that will bump your stipend up a bit more than if you were just a graduate assistant (which means you just help the professor or in the gallery or something, you don't teach a class of your own). But besides fees and supplies, college towns are notoriously expensive in terms of rent, plus there's the phone, internet, utilities and food. I ended up taking something like 15K in a year just for that stuff, even with a "full-ride" and a decent stipend.

I actually went to grad school under the impression that I wouldn't be getting anything in funding, but when I got there they handed me an assistantship and a tuition remission along with everyone else. I figured I'd have to suck it up the first year and work my ass off to "prove myself" and get funding the second year, but I was pleasantly surprised. Somehow they managed to "scrape up the money in the department." Things do change and sometimes people change their minds. After a year, I quit the program because of serious philosophical differences and my own personal life issues that needed sorted out, so I imagine they had extra funds for some new first-year grad or enough to add another one.

On the issue of "profit making" you need to understand that the "big name schools" are almost all "for profit" schools and that IS a big part of why you pay so much to be there. The faculty may be famous or quasi-famous and therefore expensive. If you go there you need to focus on networking because that's what you're paying for. But then, I don't see the point in going to a big expensive school if it's not in one of the major cultural cities (New York, LA et al.) because the network you build in a big city is always going to be denser and better than one in a more provincial locale.

Getting an MFA is kind of worthless if you don't want to teach, because right now the opportunities are even more limited than ever and you don't need an MFA to be anything except a professor. Heck, I went to one of the "Art Institutes" years ago and the instructors there didn't even have MFAs! So it isn't even always necessary to have the degree to teach! But if you want time and a space to work, don't go to grad school, do a residency like everyone has already said. Or just live with your parents or a couple of roommates so you don't have to work full-time and can focus on making stuff.