****IVY LEAGUE (M.S.) vs STATE SCHOOL (Ph.D.)****

[oboeking4314]

Hey all, so I am in a bad situation right now. I have two offers from top 10 programs (out of 30) in the field, an MS offer from Cornell University (funded, number 1 in the field), and a PhD offer from The Pennsylvania State University (funded, number 10 in the field). I eventually want a PhD, no questions about it. Cornell's prestige and Ivy league name are messing with my mind. However, I want a PhD, ultimately, and thus, I feel as if I should take the Penn State offer. However, my doing an MS at Cornell does not preclude my ability to do a PhD either there or somewhere else later on. All of my professors in the field are telling me to go to Cornell because it would be better for me, but they didn't even ask about my research interests (two totally different research topics from the schools). They are just focused on me going to the number 1 ranked program and could care less that I actually am a little bit more excited about the research program at Penn State, not to mention, the new Milennium Science Complex I'd be in there.

I could see myself at either and enjoyed them equally. However, my undergrad grades were not that strong in my first two years and I don't want to ever again go through the feeling of "what is the committee thinking when they are looking at my transcripts....are they going to start fromthe first page.....are they going to look very quickly....etc etc." I got into these top programs because I have good research experience and excellent recs and my major GPA is really good. I just don't know if I'd get into a top PhD program again if I pass Penn State up, but I'd have an MS from the number 1 ranked dept in the field so, maybe? Would me doing a good job in an MS program at Cornell make future PhD prospective schools ignore my undergrad transcript?

AGHHHHH Please help....

Edited April 4, 2011 by oboeking4314

[Bukharan]

It is a decision that only you can make. You know your situation and what you want out of postgraduate studies better than anyone else.

A good thing is that you can't lose. Both programmes are fantastic; you got full funding everywhere; and, most importantly, you can see yourself in both places!

So don't stress out too much - yes, choosing is hard, but you are in an excellent position to be in! Perhaps, try imagine yourself in 10 years, think of what it is you want to do, and perhaps then the path gets a bit clearer!

The very best with your choice!

[Tahuds]

I just don't know if I'd get into a top PhD program again if I pass Penn State up, but I'd have an MS from the number 1 ranked dept in the field so, maybe? Would me doing a good job in an MS program at Cornell make future PhD prospective schools ignore my undergrad transcript?

AGHHHHH Please help....

I'm quoting just the two most important lines. 1) 10th ranked Penn State is a top-ranked program, in any field. Ask yourself, 10th out of how many? Dozens? Hundreds? It's a damn good school no matter how you look at it. 2) No, you doing a good job will not cause PhD programs to totally ignore your undergrad transcript. It will help mitigate a poor one however, but nothing will totally erase your undergrad transcript from consideration.

If you're funded at Penn State, and you like Penn State then go to Penn State. Spending a year or two on a Masters has the opportunity cost of your salary for that many years when you get out of your PhD, because those years could have been spent getting through a PhD sooner. It's not worth it.

[tt503]

Hey all, so I am in a bad situation right now. I have two offers from top 10 programs (out of 30) in the field, an MS offer from Cornell University (funded, number 1 in the field), and a PhD offer from The Pennsylvania State University (funded, number 10 in the field). I eventually want a PhD, no questions about it. Cornell's prestige and Ivy league name are messing with my mind. However, I want a PhD, ultimately, and thus, I feel as if I should take the Penn State offer. However, my doing an MS at Cornell does not preclude my ability to do a PhD either there or somewhere else later on. All of my professors in the field are telling me to go to Cornell because it would be better for me, but they didn't even ask about my research interests (two totally different research topics from the schools). They are just focused on me going to the number 1 ranked program and could care less that I actually am a little bit more excited about the research program at Penn State, not to mention, the new Milennium Science Complex I'd be in there.

I could see myself at either and enjoyed them equally. However, my undergrad grades were not that strong in my first two years and I don't want to ever again go through the feeling of "what is the committee thinking when they are looking at my transcripts....are they going to start fromthe first page.....are they going to look very quickly....etc etc." I got into these top programs because I have good research experience and excellent recs and my major GPA is really good. I just don't know if I'd get into a top PhD program again if I pass Penn State up, but I'd have an MS from the number 1 ranked dept in the field so, maybe? Would me doing a good job in an MS program at Cornell make future PhD prospective schools ignore my undergrad transcript?

AGHHHHH Please help....

I'm not sure what field this is in, but I'm currently a Masters student at Cornell. If you *think* you'd like to do a Ph.D. here, it would probably be in your best interest to do the M.S. here, as I've known several people who were accepted to Ph.D. programs (here) directly because of their work/interests that they developed at Cornell. Talk to your adviser about it, and ask about the possibility of this happening. I've noticed that a lot of other people have been able to switch programs quite easily (e.g. MPS-->MS).

[oboeking4314]

I'm not sure what field this is in, but I'm currently a Masters student at Cornell. If you *think* you'd like to do a Ph.D. here, it would probably be in your best interest to do the M.S. here, as I've known several people who were accepted to Ph.D. programs (here) directly because of their work/interests that they developed at Cornell. Talk to your adviser about it, and ask about the possibility of this happening. I've noticed that a lot of other people have been able to switch programs quite easily (e.g. MPS-->MS).

Thanks everyone. I'd definitely like to do a PhD at Cornell if I went there for my MS. My adviser already made it clear that he is not sure he could keep me on for the PhD because of funding, but that it's a road we can cross once we get there....

Even though I am funded at both, Penn State is also throwing $6,000 at me just for summer to do research (I don't have to take classes, not that I have to take many anyway since I took them most as an undergrad at my alma mater). I wouldn't struggle financially at Cornell, it is just nice to know Penn State gave me summer money too. Cornell said I MIGHT get summer money lol....

Edited April 4, 2011 by oboeking4314

[Role Player]

Thanks everyone. I'd definitely like to do a PhD at Cornell if I went there for my MS. My adviser already made it clear that he is not sure he could keep me on for the PhD because of funding, but that it's a road we can cross once we get there....

Even though I am funded at both, Penn State is also throwing $6,000 at me just for summer to do research (I don't have to take classes, not that I have to take many anyway since I took them most as an undergrad at my alma mater). I wouldn't struggle financially at Cornell, it is just nice to know Penn State gave me summer money too. Cornell said I MIGHT get summer money lol....

I think you should be thinking about this in terms of your research interests and future career ideas. Take out the names of the two schools, which school offers you to do the most exciting research? Does either school limit your progress toward your desired profession(s). The bottom line is that no matter how hard of a worker you are, doing work you do not want to do in a graduate program will take its toll. Most importantly, when you get around to applying for jobs as you near completion of your PhD, your research record is going to define you the most. I know it is a tough question, but what do you want to do for the rest of your life? Do that now!

Not knowing the field you are talking about, it sounds like you should go to Penn State though.

[oboeking4314]

I think you should be thinking about this in terms of your research interests and future career ideas. Take out the names of the two schools, which school offers you to do the most exciting research? Does either school limit your progress toward your desired profession(s). The bottom line is that no matter how hard of a worker you are, doing work you do not want to do in a graduate program will take its toll. Most importantly, when you get around to applying for jobs as you near completion of your PhD, your research record is going to define you the most. I know it is a tough question, but what do you want to do for the rest of your life? Do that now!

Not knowing the field you are talking about, it sounds like you should go to Penn State though.

The field is Entomology. I am very interested in both topics. I do not just want to be a professor, I want to have the option of working in industry also. The program at Penn State involves research on the transmission of malaria by mosquitoes in south Asia. The program at Cornell involves research and extension work on pest management of fruits. I like both topics....one is agricultural in nature and the other is more medical-oriented in nature. Argh.....

[farnsworth]

Like most others have said, your research interests should guide you. *Personally, I would go with Penn State if a Ph.D. is the goal. Lots of other variables come into play if you go to a terminal masters. You may build your resume into the top candidate while at Cornell, or you may not do as well as you hoped and other strong candidates may come along. The masters then reapplying to Ph.D. is a gamble, but if you are as strong of a candidate as you seem to be, then it probably is not a real risk. I know this does not really help in your decision process, but... I got nothing.

*I do want to make it clear that I do not know all of the variables in your situation and thus can only give my perspective of being desperate to get into a Ph.D. program.

[oboeking4314]

Like most others have said, your research interests should guide you. *Personally, I would go with Penn State if a Ph.D. is the goal. Lots of other variables come into play if you go to a terminal masters. You may build your resume into the top candidate while at Cornell, or you may not do as well as you hoped and other strong candidates may come along. The masters then reapplying to Ph.D. is a gamble, but if you are as strong of a candidate as you seem to be, then it probably is not a real risk. I know this does not really help in your decision process, but... I got nothing.

*I do want to make it clear that I do not know all of the variables in your situation and thus can only give my perspective of being desperate to get into a Ph.D. program.

I just emailed PSU turning them down, thus, I will be heading to Cornell in the Fall. Knowing my luck , this will come back to bite me and possibly tempt me into jumping in one of those two gorges (jk), but it is what it is. People have told me that I cannot go wrong with either choice and most are partial to Cornell, including faculty at my school and job. I hope this is the right decision and if I don't get into a PhD after I complete this, preferably remaining at Cornell, at least I'll be able to say I went to the #1 school for this field. I don't want to be a professor anyway, I want to go into industry, which I can do with a Masters. I just talked to my aunt's boyfriend who gets paid $200,000/yr with the U.S. Dept of Homeland Security screening possible pests that come in and out of the country, and he only has a Masters from UNC-Chapel Hill (school is not being understated). Then again, he has 20 years under his belt. However, I am not settling on that and I am gonna work my tail off to get into a PhD program after I am done with this. There are no other African Americans in this department so this will be interesting, but I can deal with that I think....

Edited April 5, 2011 by oboeking4314

[Civil_Engineer]

I was in a similar situation and I chose the masters. It's gives you more opportunities in two years and you will be going to a much better school in the meantime. If you do well at Cornell and produce some good research you'll put yourself in a much better situation in two years applying for PhD than you were now. And ultimately doing the masters you'll take more courses and do more research, putting yourself in a better situation when it comes time to pick a career.

[farnsworth]

I just emailed PSU turning them down, thus, I will be heading to Cornell in the Fall. Knowing my luck , this will come back to bite me and possibly tempt me into jumping in one of those two gorges (jk), but it is what it is. People have told me that I cannot go wrong with either choice and most are partial to Cornell, including faculty at my school and job. I hope this is the right decision and if I don't get into a PhD after I complete this, preferably remaining at Cornell, at least I'll be able to say I went to the #1 school for this field. I don't want to be a professor anyway, I want to go into industry, which I can do with a Masters. I just talked to my aunt's boyfriend who gets paid $200,000/yr with the U.S. Dept of Homeland Security screening possible pests that come in and out of the country, and he only has a Masters from UNC-Chapel Hill (school is not being understated). Then again, he has 20 years under his belt. However, I am not settling on that and I am gonna work my tail off to get into a PhD program after I am done with this. There are no other African Americans in this department so this will be interesting, but I can deal with that I think....

Sounds like you made the right choice. Congratulations and enjoy grad school.

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

Both schools are top notch for entomology, and it is extremely common to do an MS first in this field. You could stay in that lab for the PhD or go somewhere else. I've seen so many CVs lately and people do either one so often I don't know if one way is considered better or worse. Entomology is about research, presentations, and networking (as I guess most fields are), school name is fairly secondary.

Good luck at Cornell!

[oboeking4314]

You're definitely right about that. I went to look at CVs and most of them have all three degrees. Thanks for pointing that out. I see you are at Ohio State for your MS in Entomology. That's a great school! Maybe we'll see each other at an ESA conference! Thanks.

P.S. - I definitely know it's not about the name of the school, but it's frustrating when your adviser has a PhD from there and is coercing you to go, in addition to others in the department. I just want to get a job, personally. Maybe we'll end up at the same PhD program!

Edited April 5, 2011 by oboeking4314

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

You're definitely right about that. I went to look at CVs and most of them have all three degrees. Thanks for pointing that out. I see you are at Ohio State for your MS in Entomology. That's a great school! Maybe we'll see each other at an ESA conference! Thanks.

P.S. - I definitely know it's not about the name of the school, but it's frustrating when your adviser has a PhD from there and is coercing you to go, in addition to others in the department. I just want to get a job, personally. Maybe we'll end up at the same PhD program!

I'm really looking forward to ESA this year! I have only been to a branch meeting, so Reno will be exciting.

Advisors definitely like to coerce suggest their own schools. My UG advisor very often pointed out Riverside, and while it's a great school, they just aren't doing what I want.

Have fun this summer! I remember just waiting around for school to start, and now I can't believe I've already taken a bunch of classes and developed a research proposal. Ah, time flies!

[oboeking4314]

I'm really looking forward to ESA this year! I have only been to a branch meeting, so Reno will be exciting.

Advisors definitely like to coerce suggest their own schools. My UG advisor very often pointed out Riverside, and while it's a great school, they just aren't doing what I want.

Have fun this summer! I remember just waiting around for school to start, and now I can't believe I've already taken a bunch of classes and developed a research proposal. Ah, time flies!

Thanks. Good luck with the proposal!

[frenzydude]

Being very optimistic, I would have chosen Cornell without thinking twice and I am happy you did that. I don't think it would much of a problem to continue to PhD there if you are in good standing.

[oboeking4314]

Being very optimistic, I would have chosen Cornell without thinking twice and I am happy you did that. I don't think it would much of a problem to continue to PhD there if you are in good standing.

Thanks, I think you're possibly correct. I talked to some people there and some some of them told me they did the MS first, and then easily transferred into the PhD upon completing their MS.