cosby49 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 dang, now i'm hungry and I did not win the electronic cookie. I'll have to synthesize a cookie in lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargh Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 "cdomplete" nice (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienatedlaborer Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Verily, I'm sure we doth not seen the last of our friend the Friar, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorianGravy Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Do you think that, by pointing out errors on their webpage, we can prove how smart and hard working we are and become more likely to get fellowships? Or are they just going to think we're smarty-pants know-it-alls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluv2fly1 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Do you think that, by pointing out errors on their webpage, we can prove how smart and hard working we are and become more likely to get fellowships? Or are they just going to think we're smarty-pants know-it-alls? The later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finest_engineering Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I was talking to my prof today, and there is one very subtle advantage to accepting the NSF over the NDSEG. (something that should only happen during your final 3 years, in which case you cannot defer the NSF and accept the NDSEG). later on, should you become a faculty member, a NSF GRF will stand out more when you apply to NSF for NSF career awards and NSF grants. This is due to the fact that NSF GRF funding is indicative of researching a project that the NSF was interested in, while NDSEG is indicative of conducting research on a project a defense agency was interested in. Ofcourse, I would still accept a NDSEG due to the greater funding. I think your professor is wrong. We can pick apart the reasoning here bit by it. NSF GRF funding is not indicative of researching a project that the NSF was interested in. The selection is not based on this. You should read their guidelines, they are pretty specific about what their criteria are (intellectual merit & broader impacts). NSF GRF's are not for projects they are for people. Your research proposal is more a way of illustrating who you are as a researcher than it is an actual proposal. This is all pretty clear from the guidelines. Furthermore, when you apply for NSF funding down the road, they will look at your application materials at that point. They won't say, "oh this guy had a GRF, we must be interested in funding his work!" The NDSEG guidelines do mention that they give preference to applications proposing research that defense is interested in, but even for them the application is far from a full proposal, I mean its like one page that has to discuss your background as well. I think in general the importance of these fellowships is pretty overstated on this forum. A recipient from a year ago made a good point above that he was ecstatic when he got the fellowship, but soon realized it didn't make much of a difference. The GRF makes a huge difference if it enables you to go to a school you otherwise did not have funding for. It makes some difference if it means you will get more money than you would have gotten otherwise. If you already getting just as much funding, there is a slight benefit of more flexibility choosing a research lab. This last element is pretty marginal because if you are accepted somewhere and your interests align well with a particular lab then you should usually be able to work there. The other scenario where it makes a big impact is if you have some of your own ideas you want to pursue. I applied to fellowships this year because I have some ideas that none of the professors at my school have funding for. In the mean-time though, I accepted a research assistantship and started a project I am really enjoying so the work I proposed in my apps is sort of on the backburner now anyways. I think the people on here who are saying that a GRF or NDSEG is a huge career booster are wrong. It obviously doesn't hurt, but you guys should start accepting the fact that as you progress in grad school, it is your research that you will live and die by, not any specific line on your resume. Winning one of these fellowships means you know how to sell yourself, and that will be what makes you successful, not the fellowship itself. I won an NDSEG this year and accepted it. I would recommend others with NDSEG's do the same. If something happens and you don't want need the fellowship, just let them no and retract in a timely fashion. They understand. The reasons I want the NSF at this point are that it would extend 3 years of NSDSEG out to 5 total years (as discussed here). So I knew I would be accepting the NDSEG one way or the other. I also learned today that the NSF doesn't cap supplemental payments from your school. I was getting about 20k/year in stipend already and the NDSEG forces that down to 5k/year. With the NSF I would be able to get the full 20+30 = 50k. My advisor is pretty well funded as you may have guessed. It was mentioned above that we shouldn't think of 30k/year as a lot of money. I think that is wrong. Getting paid 30k/year WITHOUT WORKING is sick. You are in school, that is something people PAY MONEY for and you are getting paid. liyu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam45 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I agree especially with your final point. I am currently a graduate student in the social sciences. I was offered the best funding at a school I turned down, and I have an RAship currently at my top choice school. NEITHER were $30000/year, and both require work on projects other than my own. GRFP frees up time to read and research and finish your degree in a timely manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 My professor (pretty renowned) was on the NSF GRFP committee and has reviewed NSF grants in the past, so obviously I'm more inclinded to believe his advice over yours. Additionally, your NDSEG essay should have discussed interests implying research that one of the defense agencies was willing to fund. Others will directly discuss the research that will be conducted. The agency which funded you is clearly indicated in the letter. In that regard, your project has to have some defense related interests. As for the NSF, I am well aware of intellectual merit and broader impacts as the criterion. But the project has to be one that the NSF is interested in. Hence why some people might get disqualified. After accepting the NSF GRFP, you are required to submit periodic updates and reports to NSF. This ensures that you are still working on a project of interest to them, even if it does diverge from your intiial proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emcuebe Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Dear NSF and President Obama, Please give me $30,000. I promise I'll stimulate the economy... TARHEELS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGradStudent Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If you want even more money, you should find a job in industry and convince the employer to send you to grad school. that way, they will pay you full salary while you in grad school and pay your tuition. That's better than 30k a year, although 50k a year for a grad student with no industrial sourcing is pretty unsual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vice Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm going to have to disagree about the career booster thing though. I think it is a huge boost. I don't know how many times I have heard researchers bios start with "is a NSF Fellow." I hear people introduced as such at conferences, etc. I don't want it to sound like it all comes easy, or that someone without it can't do as well either. But if you take two people and give one the GRFP and the other a equal amount of money in unnamed funding, the GRFP is going to have it easier. In my experience, when people are deciding who gets money, they definitely take into consideration how many times and by who a person was vetted. Don't even need to talk about all the other opportunities that are offered when you are a NSF fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caezar86 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I also learned today that the NSF doesn't cap supplemental payments from your school. I was getting about 20k/year in stipend already and the NDSEG forces that down to 5k/year. With the NSF I would be able to get the full 20+30 = 50k. My advisor is pretty well funded as you may have guessed. I always assumed that once your professor finds out you've gotten the NSF, they automatically assume that you're funded and don't need their additional funding anymore. Why would they give you up to 50K a year to do a graduate student's job? How would you be able to ask them for their additional funding when you already have the NSF without sounding greedy? Don't get me wrong, of course it'd be sweet to have so much money, but I just can't see myself asking for the additional funding without a really good reason for why i need that extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Yea, what school is this? A lot of schools (Stanford, Cornell, MIT, and I believe Berkeley will just supplement your stipend to the max fellowship amount (usually 32k)). Not some ridiculous 50k amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam45 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Agreed. When you are in a program, the people you compete against are also your friends and colleagues. It's hard to be greedy when everyone is working their ass off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGradStudent Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Just out of curiosity, does the population of this forum reflect the top tier graduate students or the lower tier graduate students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam45 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I would put myself at the top :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finest_engineering Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The range of different projects the NSF funds is massive. When you just think about the argument that a GRF is a career boost because you wrote an app as a college senior or first year grad student and won a fellowship, it just doesn't hold water. If you agree that the NSF is clear about the criteria then what are you talkin about hombre? The NSF funds projects in virtually every subfield of every field. From the many rating sheets I have seen I see no indication that they look at a specific project within a subfield and say "sounds great but we just don't fund this". Eligibility is a different matter altogether. I still disagree with the career boost thing. The ability to sell yourself is what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finest_engineering Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I am not going to say what school, but my professor has money to spend because he has a lot of funding and few students. Our work is theoretical so there isn't much spending on equipment. The school doesn't pay my check, it goes through the school but the money comes straight front sponsored projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 A lot of things matter and will shape the researcher you become. The school you go to, the research you do, the advisor you have, and the fundings you have. Whether you disagree now or not, you wont know till later. There are certain opportunities only available to NSF GRFP winners. Starting a connection with NSF now can only help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowcapk Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Just out of curiosity, does the population of this forum reflect the top tier graduate students or the lower tier graduate students? Cream of the crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vice Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Well, the GRFP is like being wrapped in shiny papers and bows with a giant seal of approval from one of the top research funding organizations. Other products will have to do a lot more to get noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGradStudent Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Cream of the crop. what about cream of the crop a la mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finest_engineering Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Greedy? I am sensing some resent. Note: I haven't won a GRF so I am not as of now getting 50k/year and might not ever. My professor is not planning on growing his lab beyond what he sees as an optimal number of people. He has a lot of funding already because he is the shiznit. When I told him I won the NDSEG he congratulated me and said he would still pay me the same, that the NDSEG was my own thing. I said I might not be able to accept any money (at the time I didn't know about the 5k) and he said "thats sort of a problem because I have money to spend, but I am happy for you." It is true that most professors assume that students with fellowships don't need their funding. I have a very gregarious professor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takingmytime Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I also learned today that the NSF doesn't cap supplemental payments from your school. I was getting about 20k/year in stipend already and the NDSEG forces that down to 5k/year. With the NSF I would be able to get the full 20+30 = 50k. My advisor is pretty well funded as you may have guessed. If you already have a contractual agreement with your university regarding funding from your advisor (your acceptance letter presumably), why would the NSF GRFP negate that? Additionally, for what it's worth you also would be pulling an 10.5k for your department in this situation since they were already waiving your tuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vice Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Use the money to hire a professional editor for publications and dissertations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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