Near Eastern programs

[wolverine99]

I've been thinking about pursuing a doctoral degree in Near Eastern studies. I'm new to this whole process and if these are stupid questions, please be patient with me :\ As I understand it, area studies programs such as Near Eastern studies and Asian Studies departments are interdisciplinary in nature. I've been thinking about what the advantages/disadvantages of attending a history program or political science program instead of a NES program and focusing on middle eastern history/politics would be. Is a degree from a near eastern studies department less marketable than one from a social science/humanities department? What departments would one most likely be teaching in with a Near Eastern Studies degree? Thanks!

[samarkand]

NES programs are methodologically different from other programs. While training in history, polisci, anthropology can no doubt aid you, many of the subjects that form NES can't be pigeonholed into the theories you've learned from these disciplines. As for marketability, depends on what you're shooting at, but I know many students and professors alike, who after having gotten their PhDs from NES, went on to teach in Classics, Religion, and the like - but of course these disciplines are wary of outsiders so it's tough. If you get a PhD in NES, I would say expect to teach in NES if you are lucky enough to get a job or a similarly minded disciplined - religion, classics, MES, etc. You should peruse the NES forums on here for more info.

[wolverine99]

Thank you for the response. I guess my main concern with NES is that it isn't a discipline like the way political science, sociology, and history are and that this ultimately affects employment chances. That's why I've been leaning towards pursuing a degree in one of the traditional social sciences/humanities and focusing on my area of interest in the Middle East. The downside of this is that faculty within those departments will most likely not have the same level of expertise and knowledge on the Middle East and resources pertaining to the middle east will not match those found in NES departments. This is such a hard choice to make!

As for employment, I've definitely seen NES PhD's within numerous history departments. This makes me think that they're not totally restricted to other NES departments?

Also, are NES grads looked down upon because they're perceived to be lacking in methodological and theoretical training due to the nature of NES programs as opposed to social science/humanities programs? At this point, I'm trying to convince myself that NES is truly the right path for me because I definitely think my experience and research interests belong in an NES department. But at the same time, I don't wanna be sacrificing too much in the way of future employment opportunities. Please enlighten me!

Thank you.

[tt503]

Maybe I'm wrong, but when I hear a lot of these questions/read a lot of these posts, they seem to equate "interdisciplinary" with "less competitive" and therefore, they think that if they apply to the NES department at a school they want to go to, they will have a greater chance at getting in, than say...a department of history (which is ridiculously competitive) or sociology (also, not a cake walk).One of my friends had two masters degrees (and published an answer key to a language grammar) before he got into a competitive program. I'm on my second masters degree (one in a NES-related field, and one in the social sciences from an Ivy), and have a ton of experience (taught 5 classes as an adjunct, TAing, publishing, presenting, studied 4 Semitic languages)...you get the idea.

NES is an extremely broad field, therefore it is extremely important to have a well thought out area of research and experience in that area before you apply. If you don't have the requisite languages, you likely won't get in.

Many of the NES students that I know seek methodological training in other departments (you CAN take classes from other departments, since it is interdisciplinary), depending on their research.

The fact of the matter is, in regards to "limiting your employment opportunities"...like PhD admissions, it's either a crap shoot (e.g. your sub interests fit what a search committee is looking for), it depends on who you know (who you meet at conferences, who your adviser is on good terms with), or your kick-ass hard work (the length and quality of your C.V...). Or, in this field, you could do other things. Like work for the CIA or work at a coffee shop.

Thank you for the response. I guess my main concern with NES is that it isn't a discipline like the way political science, sociology, and history are and that this ultimately affects employment chances. That's why I've been leaning towards pursuing a degree in one of the traditional social sciences/humanities and focusing on my area of interest in the Middle East. The downside of this is that faculty within those departments will most likely not have the same level of expertise and knowledge on the Middle East and resources pertaining to the middle east will not match those found in NES departments. This is such a hard choice to make!

As for employment, I've definitely seen NES PhD's within numerous history departments. This makes me think that they're not totally restricted to other NES departments?

Also, are NES grads looked down upon because they're perceived to be lacking in methodological and theoretical training due to the nature of NES programs as opposed to social science/humanities programs? At this point, I'm trying to convince myself that NES is truly the right path for me because I definitely think my experience and research interests belong in an NES department. But at the same time, I don't wanna be sacrificing too much in the way of future employment opportunities. Please enlighten me!

Thank you.

[wolverine99]

I'm wondering if you and your friend are both going into NES? Just curious.

Also, I don't think NES/NELC is any easier/harder than getting into sociology, history, etc. I'm not sure what the statistics say, but I do know there are less applicants to NES programs. Perhaps this could be the reason why people think it's easier to get in since the low number of applicants may make it easier to stand out to the admissions committees.

I, thankfully, am fluent in all the NES languages I need for my research. Hopefully this gives me some sort of boost.

[tt503]

I'm wondering if you and your friend are both going into NES? Just curious.

Also, I don't think NES/NELC is any easier/harder than getting into sociology, history, etc. I'm not sure what the statistics say, but I do know there are less applicants to NES programs. Perhaps this could be the reason why people think it's easier to get in since the low number of applicants may make it easier to stand out to the admissions committees.

I, thankfully, am fluent in all the NES languages I need for my research. Hopefully this gives me some sort of boost.

My friend is working on his dissertation at a top program. I'm applying to a few NES programs, but really, I'm focusing on where I fit the best based on what I want to do, regardless of the department.

[Astarabadi]

My friend is working on his dissertation at a top program. I'm applying to a few NES programs, but really, I'm focusing on where I fit the best based on what I want to do, regardless of the department.

Hey,

yea you guys are right that NES or South Asian (or any other interdisciplinary) program is 'vast', but of course you can focus on specific subjects such as religion or history.

I recently spoke to a PhD candidate in NES?Islamic studies at McGill and it was his opinion that its all about 'positioning'---either one goes for religion, or history, or language.

Also, I wanted to ask:

I am currently looking to possible programs and professors for NES for a MA, or possibly a MA to PhD track. I have a strong background in languages and also in traditional studies. Out of the four I contacted, three agreed to work with me right away and encouraged me to apply to the programs....is this something weird? does this usually happen and how much does the professors willingness to work with a student affect his or her chance to get into the program? (does it depend on the graduate admissions office and the professors say in these matters?)

Since we are on the topic, I was wondering if you could share the following:

1. Possible schools for a solid NES or South Asian studies program?

2. Is a MA to PhD track ideal for the job market in this department?

thanks!

[samarkand]

SamAli,

It's not unusual that professors seem willing to work with you. Professors tend to encourage everyone to apply for a variety of reasons - more applicants allow them to be more selective, plus the financial benefits of application fees. They may be sincere and really want to work with you, but this doesn't mean you're for sure "in." There are professors who will even reject their own MA students applying to the PhD track, while having beforehand assured them of their acceptance. This should motivate you to really perfect your application. It's always good to have contacted them though, they will hopefully remember you once it comes time to look over the pool of applicants. Keep in mind that it's ultimately professors who accept students, not a committee or school. Professors work in conjunction with the departmental admissions committee, but they are the ones ultimately deciding, based on the similitude of the student's interests to their line of work.

As for potential schools to apply to, this is all based on your specific interests. Which professors work in your field and interest you in a variety of ways? The schools where they teach should be the schools you're applying to.

The job market in NES is constricted, as it is in academia in general. Keep in mind there are more and more adjunct positions and less and less tenured ones (http://www.mindingth...valued_phd.html). It's a very feeble time to be a graduate student, pursuing a career in academia. But you can do it, don't be discouraged!

[Astarabadi]

SamAli,

It's not unusual that professors seem willing to work with you. Professors tend to encourage everyone to apply for a variety of reasons - more applicants allow them to be more selective, plus the financial benefits of application fees. They may be sincere and really want to work with you, but this doesn't mean you're for sure "in." There are professors who will even reject their own MA students applying to the PhD track, while having beforehand assured them of their acceptance. This should motivate you to really perfect your application. It's always good to have contacted them though, they will hopefully remember you once it comes time to look over the pool of applicants. Keep in mind that it's ultimately professors who accept students, not a committee or school. Professors work in conjunction with the departmental admissions committee, but they are the ones ultimately deciding, based on the similitude of the student's interests to their line of work.

As for potential schools to apply to, this is all based on your specific interests. Which professors work in your field and interest you in a variety of ways? The schools where they teach should be the schools you're applying to.

The job market in NES is constricted, as it is in academia in general. Keep in mind there are more and more adjunct positions and less and less tenured ones (http://www.mindingth...valued_phd.html). It's a very feeble time to be a graduate student, pursuing a career in academia. But you can do it, don't be discouraged!

Samarkand,

You seem to be correct in your observations. I've done quite a bit of research on the issue since my last post, and seem to have found out aspects I hadn't thought of. Such as:

1. Professors do take an interest in all possible candidates. But from the students perspective, its important to see if a) personalities match

b)this is someone you'd be comfortable in working with for 5 or more years (for a PhD),

c) if you do have qualities that stand out (I do, in my confidence in language studies), then highlight that. Also don't forget to mention your weaknesses, which need to be worked on. Honesty is appreciated everywhere.

d) Try to meet with the possible adviser, and see where they fit in the field. To an extent, its about being a "xyz1" as opposed to a "xyz3" and you kind of have to figure out where you want to start, but not end up. Working with a specialist in a field, if there are only a few, can put you in the right direction.

e) its just as much about a job search as it is about doing what you are passionate about. balance those two, keeping in mind skills necessary for both.

thanks for the link!