JD to PhD in NES

[hopefulJD]

Hey all,

I posted this in the interdisciplinary studies forum but have gotten no responses so far. So I'm going to try my luck here. If you have anything to say, please do so. I'm really in need of guidance, support, empathy, advice, etc etc. Thank you!

I will be a 3L in law school next year. While I love studying law, I've come to realize that my interests in the legal field is purely academic instead of professional. I don't regret spending money to go to law school since, as I've said, I have enjoyed my experience as a law student and my research interests have a lot to do with the law.

I am going to be applying to Near Eastern PhD programs next fall. My research interests lie within the study of Middle Eastern legal structures. I know this is very broad and I will be narrowing it down. But I just wanted to let you all know of where I stood in terms of my interests.

I am a native speaker of a Middle Eastern language and fluent in another. My research interests would most likely focus on countries whose languages I already know. I have also worked, lived, and traveled extensively in one of the countries I am interested in. I'm wondering how much language plays a role in doctoral admissions to area studies programs. A friend told me it wouldn't give me much of a boost and that admission are based largely on quantitative factors much like law school admissions. However, as far as I understand from these forums, this is far from reality. Would language ability give me a boost?

Also, would a JD be looked down upon for NES admissions? I know a number of JD's pursuing PhD's in history and polisci but not many go onto interdisciplinary programs like NES. I am top 15% at a solid regional school. My combined GRE score is 1410. The only thing I'm worried about is my lowly undergraduate GPA (3.45).

Any advice is much appreciated. Also, any recommendations as to which school to look into would also be very welcome. As a note, I'm not interested in MA programs. I realize these programs are rarely fully funded and I just don't like the idea of taking on more debt.

Thank you in advance!

[tt503]

Being a native speaker (and obtaining fluency) in relevant languages will (of course) give you a boost...but after your quantitative aspects of your application are reviewed (which they are fine, by the way).

Your GRE would meet the cut offs for most (if not) all programs. Your UGPA is a tad low, but may be made up for with a good fit. That being said, you should focus on narrowing what you want to study (NELC is a broad field, and "legal structures" is vague...)--which scholars would you like to work with?

If you don't have much of a NELC background, you need a solid writing sample that shows you're familiar with the corpus of literature that is "standard" in the field. Do your homework, learn what works are respected and cite them in your papers. Cite in an appropriate style, particularly Chicago (which is what is typically used in religion publications).

One up-hill battle you might have to address is why you're switching fields, particularly so far in the game. The ad coms may feel like you're not truly passionate about what you want to study, but you're just getting another degree for the sake of getting a degree (and not mature enough to handle the "real world" thereby staying in the warm glow of the ivory tower).

Hey all,

I posted this in the interdisciplinary studies forum but have gotten no responses so far. So I'm going to try my luck here. If you have anything to say, please do so. I'm really in need of guidance, support, empathy, advice, etc etc. Thank you!

I will be a 3L in law school next year. While I love studying law, I've come to realize that my interests in the legal field is purely academic instead of professional. I don't regret spending money to go to law school since, as I've said, I have enjoyed my experience as a law student and my research interests have a lot to do with the law.

I am going to be applying to Near Eastern PhD programs next fall. My research interests lie within the study of Middle Eastern legal structures. I know this is very broad and I will be narrowing it down. But I just wanted to let you all know of where I stood in terms of my interests.

I am a native speaker of a Middle Eastern language and fluent in another. My research interests would most likely focus on countries whose languages I already know. I have also worked, lived, and traveled extensively in one of the countries I am interested in. I'm wondering how much language plays a role in doctoral admissions to area studies programs. A friend told me it wouldn't give me much of a boost and that admission are based largely on quantitative factors much like law school admissions. However, as far as I understand from these forums, this is far from reality. Would language ability give me a boost?

Also, would a JD be looked down upon for NES admissions? I know a number of JD's pursuing PhD's in history and polisci but not many go onto interdisciplinary programs like NES. I am top 15% at a solid regional school. My combined GRE score is 1410. The only thing I'm worried about is my lowly undergraduate GPA (3.45).

Any advice is much appreciated. Also, any recommendations as to which school to look into would also be very welcome. As a note, I'm not interested in MA programs. I realize these programs are rarely fully funded and I just don't like the idea of taking on more debt.

Thank you in advance!

[hopefulJD]

Thank you for the response. As for switching fields, I knew my 1L year that this was the route I wanted to take. I believe my legal studies will be an excellent supplement to my research interests in grad school. Because I knew so early in my legal education that I was interested in pursing a PhD, I pursued independent research courses and worked as a research assistant for professors. Therefore, I believe I've conducted enough relevant research and have plenty of research experience. Perhaps not research with a focus on the humanities or social sciences, but research nonetheless. That being said, do you still think my law background, despite its relevance, will be a significant challenge to overcome in admissions?

[hopefulJD]

One more thing...through my amazing google skills I was able to find a few history/polisci/law professors who have both a PhD and a JD. Their field of research seems to be complemented by the JD. This is reassuring, but I guess I just wanna hear what others have to say to be more at ease.

[tt503]

One more thing...through my amazing google skills I was able to find a few history/polisci/law professors who have both a PhD and a JD. Their field of research seems to be complemented by the JD. This is reassuring, but I guess I just wanna hear what others have to say to be more at ease.

I don't think the JD hurts you in the adcom's eyes of "this person is/isn't capable of doing good research." I think it hurts it when they see someone who has devoted three years to a degree, and doesn't use it practically. Programs want scholars who, ideally, will go out into the world and produce a lot of scholarship, so it gets better known, so tenure-track professors get tenure, so it has more influence, more money, etc. They don't want someone who will spend 5 years in their program, write a dissertation, and then switch on to something else. (I'm not saying you'll do this. I'm saying you need to articulate to them why you are serious about this commitment.)

Sure, there are professors with JD/PhDs out there. But, it doesn't mean they have a PhD in NELC. As I'm sure you know, there are lots of joint programs in law school, where you earn a PhD concomitantly with the JD. I have heard of professors with PhD/JD combo, who adjunct in NES departments, that know next to nothing about the historical context of Mesopotamian legal codes. I know of people who are experts in Islamic law without a JD. I don't think it is particularly going to help/hurt you.

What I think will help/hurt you is not knowing the prevailing opinions about what your research area is, and the way you show that is by having a great writing sample. Demonstrating a solid understanding of an issue in NELC will be significantly to your advantage, as will applying to departments that is a good research fit for you.

[hopefulJD]

Good points. Thank you very much.

As for the possibility of jumping ship and pursuing a legal career after a PhD, I don't think that would be possible even if I wanted to. Once you haven't practiced law for that long, your degree becomes stale and law firms/government agencies would be much less likely to hire you given your lack of practical experience. I don't completely plan on abandoning my legal career, though. I'm going to continue to do pro bono work as long as I have the time.

To sum up what I've understood,my JD can prove to be a useful force if I present my relevant legal experience in a manner that reinforces my commitment to research/academia. And I can do this in my writing sample/SOP.

Interestingly enough, a notable program in NES, Harvard, doesn't require a writing sample :\

[tt503]

Good points. Thank you very much.

As for the possibility of jumping ship and pursuing a legal career after a PhD, I don't think that would be possible even if I wanted to. Once you haven't practiced law for that long, your degree becomes stale and law firms/government agencies would be much less likely to hire you given your lack of practical experience. I don't completely plan on abandoning my legal career, though. I'm going to continue to do pro bono work as long as I have the time.

To sum up what I've understood,my JD can prove to be a useful force if I present my relevant legal experience in a manner that reinforces my commitment to research/academia. And I can do this in my writing sample/SOP.

Interestingly enough, a notable program in NES, Harvard, doesn't require a writing sample :\

Harvard used to require a writing sample for NELC. They've re-structured their program in the past couple of years, so I'm not sure what it is like now. You should look into Harvard Divinity for a Masters, even though you say you don't want to take out more debt. I've known people who were impressive enough candidates to swing free tuition + a small stipend. Good luck.

Edited May 29, 2011 by tt503

[hopefulJD]

Harvard used to require a writing sample for NELC. They've re-structured their program in the past couple of years, so I'm not sure what it is like now. You should look into Harvard Divinity for a Masters, even though you say you don't want to take out more debt. I've known people who were impressive enough candidates to swing free tuition + a small stipend. Good luck.

I thought about it, but I just don't think my main interests lie within Islamic theology. It's definitely something that I'm interested in and will inevitably have to be extremely familiar with in my research, but it's not my main focus. I don't wanna go into too much detail here, but I'm interested in an aspect of legal history within a social and political realm. I have a very specific topic for research, but I'd rather not go into detail here. That's just the gist of it. Because I'm not mostly interested in history or mostly interested in politics, I figured an interdisciplinary department like a NES department is ideal for me.