Career Perspectives for Industry Engineer?

[Collegebum]

Hello,

I am a recent graduate with a B.Eng, and will be going to a M.Eng program next year in Biomedical Engineering. I am creating this thread to see whether some of the experienced graduate students and engineers can shed light on some of my questions on engineering careers in industry.

From what I have read on these forums and online, the traditional career path for engineers are either:

1) Technical and Research - Where one receives a PhD and moves into R&D or academia

2) Managment - Where one receives work experience and then moves into management for an MBA.

I always prefered industry to academia because I was intrigued by developing practical solutions to medical problems (hence my choice to be an engineer over a doctor) rather than focus on the theoretical and novel topics of laboratory studies.

From all that the threads I have read, I have never found information on how professional industry engineers fair in terms of career development.

Does only having a Masters hamper ones progress in industry?

Which makes me come to my final question. I have a vested interest in learning and being the most educated in my field, hence my interest in receiving a doctorate. However, I am more interested in the industrial applications of this knowledge rather than the theoretical research of a PhD curriculum. I have read about the Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng) which is simply put as the "Professional PhD equivalent". However, I haven't found many universities that offer this degree, and it hasnt been discussed a lot in this website.

What kind of career outlook is offered for a D.Eng in medical device industry as opposed to a PhD?

I know for sure that I want to end up in the forefront of medical device industry. I have no interest in academia, but am lost as to how to get to this stage. Any feedback, comments and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[HassE]

Hello,

I am a recent graduate with a B.Eng, and will be going to a M.Eng program next year in Biomedical Engineering. I am creating this thread to see whether some of the experienced graduate students and engineers can shed light on some of my questions on engineering careers in industry.

From what I have read on these forums and online, the traditional career path for engineers are either:

1) Technical and Research - Where one receives a PhD and moves into R&D or academia

2) Managment - Where one receives work experience and then moves into management for an MBA.

I always prefered industry to academia because I was intrigued by developing practical solutions to medical problems (hence my choice to be an engineer over a doctor) rather than focus on the theoretical and novel topics of laboratory studies.

From all that the threads I have read, I have never found information on how professional industry engineers fair in terms of career development.

Does only having a Masters hamper ones progress in industry?

Which makes me come to my final question. I have a vested interest in learning and being the most educated in my field, hence my interest in receiving a doctorate. However, I am more interested in the industrial applications of this knowledge rather than the theoretical research of a PhD curriculum. I have read about the Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng) which is simply put as the "Professional PhD equivalent". However, I haven't found many universities that offer this degree, and it hasnt been discussed a lot in this website.

What kind of career outlook is offered for a D.Eng in medical device industry as opposed to a PhD?

I know for sure that I want to end up in the forefront of medical device industry. I have no interest in academia, but am lost as to how to get to this stage. Any feedback, comments and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

There are MANY MANY MANY people that will disagree with what i'm about to say and please bare with me as I try to explain my philosophy on this. As I have similar interests as you do (just in Electrical Engineering not entirely in Biomedical Engineering)

The short and most typical answer? A master of science or a master of engineering will be sufficient enough for you to get where you want to go.

The long answer and the route I plan on taking? Lets take a look back at about 20-30 years ago. The most common degree back then was what? An associates degree? MAYBE a bachelors degree? Once you held a "college education" you were considered "smart" and "educated" because you have a college education. However, very quickly those same people that still only hold an associates or bachelors degree are what now? Not really up to the level of education that many of the students coming out of college today have. The only way these lesser educated people succeed is because of their many years of work experience.

Now let's take a look at today's society, getting a bachelors degree in today's society, is a great accomplishment, but eh it's only okay. Your not really considered "the cream of the crop" nor with just a bachelors degree today can you really hold any high level position in both the engineering or the business environment. A masters degree today seems like what everyone has or is striving to get. The guy on the cooking channel even has a masters degree from yale, i think a master's is the standard today

If we take a look at the future, 10-20-30 years from now, will a masters degree be sufficient then? My guess, is you'll be lacking or at the bottom of the list. You better have darn good work experience to compensate and compete with others who have a PhD and nearly as much work experience.

The point that I'm trying to make is, right now today a masters degree will allow you to be nearly head of your department or group in designing devices for medical use, but will you be that confident that your resume will be as attractive if you say lost your job in 10-15 years? That's your call.

You said in your original message that "I know for sure that I want to end up in the forefront of medical device industry". How can you be on the forefront of the latest cutting edge technology if your not involved in the research stage at some point of the game? Even if it's the research division inside your work industry? I mean let's face it, every engineer is also a researcher once in a while, because well were creating something from scratch that hasn't been done before (or at least you haven't done it before).

If you also want to be top of your engineering group, you'd want to hope their are no PhDs in your engineering team. Would be pretty tough to promote an MS as Lead Engineer over the PhD candidate, maybe that's just my opinion though as well.

A PhD research does not have to be theoretical research. It can very well be practical research. For instance, if your research advisor is researching some new biomedical device that will better be able to see cancer (or whatever), you will need to perform theoretical research, but also practical research to acquire data from it. My professor at my Institute graduated from the University of Michigan with a PhD in Biomedical Engineering. Part of his research was create an extremely small circuit and chip (that was fully fabricated) and was then cut and attached inside of a mouse. Data and information was then captured from it. I'm not sure exactly what it did, but bottom line, he was in the lab most of the day playing and researching with actual components and hardware that was based off of his research.

To answer your last question on the Doctorate of Engineering, i'm not sure there is such a thing of a doctorate for the industry. A doctorate means you are an expert in your field. An expert is someone who invented or created (researched) something new and contributes to the field of engineering. I know for instance MIT offers two doctorates, a Ph.D and a ScD. A doctor of philosophy and a doctor of science. Both degrees are exactly the same and require exactly the same.

Do what feels best though. Any more questions, feel free to ask. Once again these are just my opinions and how I thought about this whole PhD road. Plus the added benefit of a PhD for me is when i'm sick of working that typical 9-5 job (or should I say 7-6, as engineers tend to work crazy hours) you always have the fall back option of becoming a professor at a university. Not saying it's easier, but the environment is most definitely different. More doors more options?

[Collegebum]

There are MANY MANY MANY people that will disagree with what i'm about to say and please bare with me as I try to explain my philosophy on this. As I have similar interests as you do (just in Electrical Engineering not entirely in Biomedical Engineering)

The short and most typical answer? A master of science or a master of engineering will be sufficient enough for you to get where you want to go.

The long answer and the route I plan on taking? Lets take a look back at about 20-30 years ago. The most common degree back then was what? An associates degree? MAYBE a bachelors degree? Once you held a "college education" you were considered "smart" and "educated" because you have a college education. However, very quickly those same people that still only hold an associates or bachelors degree are what now? Not really up to the level of education that many of the students coming out of college today have. The only way these lesser educated people succeed is because of their many years of work experience.

Now let's take a look at today's society, getting a bachelors degree in today's society, is a great accomplishment, but eh it's only okay. Your not really considered "the cream of the crop" nor with just a bachelors degree today can you really hold any high level position in both the engineering or the business environment. A masters degree today seems like what everyone has or is striving to get. The guy on the cooking channel even has a masters degree from yale, i think a master's is the standard today

If we take a look at the future, 10-20-30 years from now, will a masters degree be sufficient then? My guess, is you'll be lacking or at the bottom of the list. You better have darn good work experience to compensate and compete with others who have a PhD and nearly as much work experience.

The point that I'm trying to make is, right now today a masters degree will allow you to be nearly head of your department or group in designing devices for medical use, but will you be that confident that your resume will be as attractive if you say lost your job in 10-15 years? That's your call.

You said in your original message that "I know for sure that I want to end up in the forefront of medical device industry". How can you be on the forefront of the latest cutting edge technology if your not involved in the research stage at some point of the game? Even if it's the research division inside your work industry? I mean let's face it, every engineer is also a researcher once in a while, because well were creating something from scratch that hasn't been done before (or at least you haven't done it before).

If you also want to be top of your engineering group, you'd want to hope their are no PhDs in your engineering team. Would be pretty tough to promote an MS as Lead Engineer over the PhD candidate, maybe that's just my opinion though as well.

A PhD research does not have to be theoretical research. It can very well be practical research. For instance, if your research advisor is researching some new biomedical device that will better be able to see cancer (or whatever), you will need to perform theoretical research, but also practical research to acquire data from it. My professor at my Institute graduated from the University of Michigan with a PhD in Biomedical Engineering. Part of his research was create an extremely small circuit and chip (that was fully fabricated) and was then cut and attached inside of a mouse. Data and information was then captured from it. I'm not sure exactly what it did, but bottom line, he was in the lab most of the day playing and researching with actual components and hardware that was based off of his research.

To answer your last question on the Doctorate of Engineering, i'm not sure there is such a thing of a doctorate for the industry. A doctorate means you are an expert in your field. An expert is someone who invented or created (researched) something new and contributes to the field of engineering. I know for instance MIT offers two doctorates, a Ph.D and a ScD. A doctor of philosophy and a doctor of science. Both degrees are exactly the same and require exactly the same.

Do what feels best though. Any more questions, feel free to ask. Once again these are just my opinions and how I thought about this whole PhD road. Plus the added benefit of a PhD for me is when i'm sick of working that typical 9-5 job (or should I say 7-6, as engineers tend to work crazy hours) you always have the fall back option of becoming a professor at a university. Not saying it's easier, but the environment is most definitely different. More doors more options?

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I agree, that a PhD will lead to better openings. However, most engineers often also get MBAs which then allow them to leave the science and deal with business behind technology, which is also appealing. But from I gather, the engineering field is all based on experience, so then, would getting a PhD (and therefore giving up 5 years of work experience) hamper someone from entering Industry. One of the major criticisms I've heard about the PhD is that you are too specialized and maybe too overqualified, which makes placement in industry difficult.

[HassE]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I agree, that a PhD will lead to better openings. However, most engineers often also get MBAs which then allow them to leave the science and deal with business behind technology, which is also appealing. But from I gather, the engineering field is all based on experience, so then, would getting a PhD (and therefore giving up 5 years of work experience) hamper someone from entering Industry. One of the major criticisms I've heard about the PhD is that you are too specialized and maybe too overqualified, which makes placement in industry difficult.

I can only speak as a student entering a PhD program in electrical and computer engineering. However, my theory is that although I have heard of that many times, I feel its just the opposite. The problem is that you just spent 4-5 years doing research aka "your baby" that doing anything else other than what you've been doing is uninteresting. At least thats what my biomed professor said. He had to give up his research and post-doc research to do completely non-related stuff.

Unless its really a low-entry job, I see the only that will hurt you with the qualifications is that you'd be demanding so much money. Otherwise, what company wouldnt want to hire a PhD engineer and pay him like a entry level. This would be a disadvantage for us. This is why most PhDs go into the research route, they become experts and gain experience through that route, then they become Chief Technology Officers(CTO)/Lead Senior Principal Engineers/etc etc

The CTO at my prior company, had his PhD and his MBA, was an older fellow but was working at a research lab then just kept moving up the chains to director positions and CTO positions- the ultimate highest position an engineer can be at the executive level while still actually doing technical work.