Pure Math Grad School

[Daydream]

Hi, I'm new.

I'm a fifth year senior getting ready to apply for graduate programs (PhD) in pure mathematics this fall. I decided to take an extra year because I switched to math late in my college career, had time left on my scholarship, and wasn't happy with where I got into grad school last year. My math GPA is a 3.51, with a 3.8 in courses passed the usual Calc1-3, ODEs, and Linear Algebra sequences. So far I've taken:

Calc 1-3

ODEs

Linear Algebra

Numerical Analysis

Two semesters of PDEs

Two semesters of advanced calclulus (at the level of Baby Rudin)

Two semesters of abstract algebra

One semester of complex variables

One semester of number theory

One semester of formal logic

One semester of pointset topology

One semester of functional analysis

along with an assortment of electives here and there. This upcoming year, I'll be taking my university's grad courses in measure theory, pointset and algebraic topology, and complex analysis. However, my GRE scores are a bit (a lot) lackluster; I got a 730 Q on the general and an abysmal 570 on the subject GRE. I know it's just making excuses, but I have problems with standardized testing. Aside from retaking the tests - which I intend to do - is there anything else I can do to give myself a decent chance of getting into grad school? And will these low scores completely bar me from being a competitive applicant? I'm not looking to get into a top10 program or anything, as I don't think that's realistic at all, but I would like to try and have a career as a researcher. I spend most of my free time reading math, looking for alternative proofs to theorems in class, seeing what happens when assumptions are weakened, looking up peripheral material, etc...and yeah, this is just really what I want to do. So is there anything I could or should be doing to improve my chances?

Edited July 17, 2011 by Daydream

[coffeeintotheorems]

My math GPA is a 3.51,

...

However, my GRE scores are a bit (a lot) lackluster; I got a 730 Q on the general and an abysmal 570 on the subject GRE. I know it's just making excuses, but I have problems with standardized testing. Aside from retaking the tests - which I intend to do - is there anything else I can do to give myself a decent chance of getting into grad school?

...

And will these low scores completely bar me from being a competitive applicant?

...

So is there anything I could or should be doing to improve my chances?

Here's one idea if you feel you need to daydream a little less and focus more:

http://amphetamines.com/paul-erdos.html

(With more modern drugs and a doctor's guidance, of course.) This also presupposes you have all the other fundamentals down--i.e. good diet, exercise, sleep habits, study plan, (tentative) career/life plan.

This is highly controversial, of course, and others may disagree with me. I am open to changing my opinion.

[Daydream]

<br />Here's one idea if you feel you need to daydream a little less and focus more:<br /><br /><a href='http://amphetamines.com/paul-erdos.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://amphetamines....paul-erdos.html</a><br /><br />(With more modern drugs and a doctor's guidance, of course.)  This also presupposes  you have all the other fundamentals down--i.e. good diet, exercise, sleep habits, study plan, (tentative) career/life plan.<br /><br />This is highly controversial, of course, and others may disagree with me.  I am open to changing my opinion.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

I promise, it's just a handle . I don't need to take amphetamines.

[coffeeintotheorems]

I promise, it's just a handle . I don't need to take amphetamines.

Fair enough . If you're a naturally happy, energetic, focused person, then there's nothing I could say beyond the simple "Get your s--- together this year"--i.e. get A's in all those higher math classes you're taking, train for the GREs (no excuses!), and aim high but with realistic expectations in your apps. You can search the web for data on what kinds of applicants get into what kinds of schools; I'm not going to provide any more info on how to do this because I've done so ad nauseum on this forum. (Just a preemptive message, nothing personal.)

[abbasfarnas]

Here's one idea if you feel you need to daydream a little less and focus more:

http://amphetamines....paul-erdos.html

(With more modern drugs and a doctor's guidance, of course.) This also presupposes you have all the other fundamentals down--i.e. good diet, exercise, sleep habits, study plan, (tentative) career/life plan.

This is highly controversial, of course, and others may disagree with me. I am open to changing my opinion.

Now I understand where your name comes from...and I thought my choice of nickname is unique!

[newms]

Here's one idea if you feel you need to daydream a little less and focus more:

http://amphetamines....paul-erdos.html

(With more modern drugs and a doctor's guidance, of course.) This also presupposes you have all the other fundamentals down--i.e. good diet, exercise, sleep habits, study plan, (tentative) career/life plan.

This is highly controversial, of course, and others may disagree with me. I am open to changing my opinion.

I did not know that about Paul Erdos. I don't now if I agree with the idea, but it certainly makes you think though. I wonder if there's a parallel between a mathematician taking amphetamines to boost his performance and a sprinter taking them to run faster? Or a baseball slugger taking 'greenies' to hit more home runs?

Edited July 18, 2011 by newms

[coffeeintotheorems]

I wonder if there's a parallel between a mathematician taking amphetamines to boost his performance and a sprinter taking them to run faster? Or a baseball slugger taking 'greenies' to hit more home runs?

Do you mean a parallel in terms of measurable improvements in a mathematician's performance? Or an ethical parallel? Or both, since the two are intimately tied together?

Edited July 18, 2011 by coffeeintotheorems

[newms]

Do you mean a parallel in terms of measurable improvements in a mathematician's performance? Or an ethical parallel? Or both, since the two are intimately tied together?

Yeah, both. How much of an improvement did Erdos get from using amphetamines and are there any ethical implications involved as with when athletes who use performance enhancing drugs? I'm asking it since it's not settled in my mind - an athlete gains an unfair advantage using performance enhancement drugs over other athletes who are competing without an artificial boost. The 'clean' athlete can make a case that he or she has been wronged since they competed 'fairly' while the athlete on amphetamines gained an 'unfair', and in some sports, illegal advantage in depriving the 'clean' athlete of contests and earnings that the 'clean' athlete would have otherwise won. With Erdos' case, how much of an improvement did he get using amphetamines? He seemed to have believed that he gained a substantial improvement using amphetamines, since he regretted that the progress of mathematics had suffered in the month that he was off amphetamines. So if he did get a substantial improvement in his performance from using amphetamines, how did his colleagues feel about that? In a sense, mathematics is not a competition like sports, so his colleagues weren't necessarily disadvantaged by his use of amphetamines - if he hadn't made the discoveries he did, it's not clear that his colleagues would have in the way that a 'clean' athlete would probably have won had the athlete who used amphetamines competed drug-free. On the other hand, maybe he won awards or grants that would have gone to someone else had he not used amphetamines. So what I'm not sure of is - was his use of amphetamines 'ethical'? His advancement of the field was amazing and commendable, but should the fact that he used amphetamines put his accomplishments in the same light as those of a sprinter who pushes the limits of human speed while using performance enhancing drugs? Or, on the other hand, maybe there's nothing wrong with using performance enhancing drugs and we should all be using them to advance our respective fields to the betterment of the human race?

EDIT: OP, I'm sorry to have hijacked your thread

Edited July 18, 2011 by newms

[Daydream]

<br />Fair enough <img src="http://forum.thegradcafe.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" />  .  If you're a naturally happy, energetic, focused person, then there's nothing I could say beyond the simple &quot;Get your s--- together this year&quot;--i.e. get A's in all those higher math classes you're taking, train for the GREs (no excuses!), and aim high but with realistic expectations in your apps.  You can search the web for data on what kinds of applicants get into what kinds of schools; I'm not going to provide any more info on how to do this because I've done so ad nauseum on this forum.  (Just a preemptive message, nothing personal.)<br />

<br /><br /><br />

How important is the general GRE?

[sidneysamson]

On a side note, wasn't Erdos homeless all his life? I just heard he was a transient who only traveled with one bag while doing math for people where he was staying.

[coffeeintotheorems]

How important is the general GRE?

Hello, OP! Sorry for jacking your thread here. As a matter of sincere apology, I'll help you out a little more.

The consensus on the general GRE is that it's a hoop you need to jump through, even though the content of the vapid math portion is middle-school level mathematics. Basically you need to train for it by taking every single official practice test you can get your hands on and then get as close to an 800 as possible. As for the verbal and AWA, getting a high score won't help much (I'm a case in point on that), but you do want to make a certain minimum to avoid raising any suspicions. Those minima are roughly a 450-500 on Verbal and a 4.0 or 4.5 on AWA. If you're a native English speaker and can throw together a decently-constructed argument, you should be able to make these.

If you really do have the brain (whatever that means) for higher mathematics research but have genuine "test anxiety" (whatever the hell that means), then you need to seek help elsewhere, because that's way out of my scope. I can say this, though: the first times I took the general and subject GREs, I was very depressed and did poorly on them because I freaked out and spent too long obsessing over easy questions. My initial scores were only a 720 on the Q general gre and a 600 on the subject test--the 46th percentile. Many years later, I had more purpose and undertook a focused study/training for the tests and got 800Q and then 810 (85th percentile) on the subject test--and those were without drugs!!! In summary, my view is that merely getting off your ass and getting to work can work wonders, although the effort on your part will be non-trivial.

You can check out the math subject gre forum http://www.mathematicsgre.com/ for info on the subject test and for data on what kinds of applicants get into what schools:

http://www.mathemati...c.php?f=1&t=357

http://www.mathemati...c.php?f=1&t=495

You can also find links to some real practice tests there:

http://www.mathemati...c.php?f=1&t=593

If any moderators are listening: is there any way you can make this information a sticky post or something? I've been providing these useful data sets to people on this forum for a while, but I won't be around here forever. (I'll probably duck out of here in a month, once I move and start my grad program.)

Edited July 18, 2011 by coffeeintotheorems

[coffeeintotheorems]

EDIT: OP, I'm sorry to have hijacked your thread

newms: I split the separate discussion into a new thread.