International Affairs - International Trade and Investment

[Waffle]

Hey,

I'm an international student from Brussels, Belgium. I'm about to enter my final year of undergraduate studies ( 3 years long European system) and I'm strongly considering to pursue my graduate studies in the US. However, one problem stands out: my lack of professional experience. The European system - and even more the Belgian one - is such that entering the professional world after completing a Bachelor is very uncommon.

I'm looking to receive a few feedback on my chances of actually getting admitted in a well-reputed program.

Here are some facts related to my future application:

• Dual degree in Political Science and Economics and Management; I will thus obtain two bachelor's degree at the end of my three years
  
• I have an average of 87% (summa cum laude, second of my promotion) in my BA in political science; and 65% (cum laude) in Economics and Management for the moment.
  
• I don't have any scores yet for the TOEL or the GRE but I plan on taking them mid-September and mid-October.
  
• Languages: French, Dutch, English and some basics of German and Spanish
  
• Work experience: I am currently doing an internship in a consulting firm specialised in strategy and innovation; I worked essentially on market researches (notably on mobile banking in emerging markets). And I should have another internship in a risk management firm.
  
• Experience abroad: I spent one year in the US after my senior year in Belgium; I "repeated" a senior year in an American high school. Besides, I've had the chance to travel all around Europe and a bit in North Africa
  
• Extracurricular activities: I did some model UN and strategy challenge (BCG); I'm a member of the student body of my university for which I'm in charge of organising conferences on various topics.
  

I would like to pursue a career in political and economic risks with a strong focus on financial markets and/or investments in emerging countries. I've always been interested in both international economics (finance, trade and investments) and international affairs and it's part of the reason why I decided to go for a BA dual degree.

These are the programs I'm considering at this point:

- Fletcher MIB: the program allows to combine a study field in international affairs and one in business.

- Elliott's International Trade and Investment Policy although I still hesitate if the international affairs program with international economic affairs as a major field is not more "accessible" regarding my stats.

- SIPA MIA - IFEP: this is probably the most "modular" program with a wide range of electives, but also the least accesible

- Korbel's Global Finance, Trade and Economic Integration: I don't know if a can consider it as a safe school. The campus being in Denver, the program appears less attractive than the ones mentioned above

I also thought of SAIS but I'm not sure the program really fits what I'm looking for. Besides American universities, I'll apply to European schools (LSE (?), Sciences Po, GSE)

So my questions are:

- Do I stand a chance of getting accepted? Or are the schools mentioned unreachable regarding my stats and my lack of experience?

- What other school combining my two privileged fields should I be considering?

Thank you!

[MYRNIST]

GRE score has a huge impact on your attractiveness as a candidate, so it's tough to evaluate your chances right now. Based on the grammatical quality of your post I assume TOEFL shouldn't be a problem, though.

SAIS has a very, very pronounced international economics focus, so that seems like it should be right up your alley. I am curious how you think it doesn't fit your interests.

[Mal83]

I'd have to disagree that GRE scores have a "huge" impact on your application. The test is actually one of the least important components of the total application package. For a professional degree in International Affairs what matters most are the statement of purpose, letters of recommendation, and international and/or relevant work experience. However, the TOEFL will come into play being that you are an international student, there is a required score I'm sure, but that probably won't be much of an issue for you. Your grades are also probably not something to be worried about. The fact that you are proficient and/or fluent in 3 languages will add to your competitiveness. Your lack of experience might indeed be an issue, it's hard to say for sure because I haven't seen the requirements for admission pages for these programs, but I'd say that there is no reason that you should not apply to these schools, it's certainly not unheard of to be accepted to a professional program without years and years of work experience. But I also think that you should be able to craft a very solid and convincing SOP using the experience that you do have. Scoring very high on the GRE becomes important if you have a deficiency in your application, I feel that if you at least score within the range of accepted applicants then you can be sure that the score will not hold you back. Many successful applicants do not score as high as the averages posted on the school's websites. It depends on the program, for mathematics and the sciences, the quantitative sections carries a lot of weight, for the humanities, the verbal section is more important. But for professional programs the GRE is far less weighty. Again, the most important components are the SOP, LORs, experience, and I would say your course of study as an undergrad. Your degree is a solid foundation for graduate study in this area, so yes I do believe you have a reasonable chance at the schools you mentioned.

[MYRNIST]

I'd have to disagree that GRE scores have a "huge" impact on your application. The test is actually one of the least important components of the total application package. For a professional degree in International Affairs what matters most are the statement of purpose, letters of recommendation, and international and/or relevant work experience. However, the TOEFL will come into play being that you are an international student, there is a required score I'm sure, but that probably won't be much of an issue for you. Your grades are also probably not something to be worried about. The fact that you are proficient and/or fluent in 3 languages will add to your competitiveness. Your lack of experience might indeed be an issue, it's hard to say for sure because I haven't seen the requirements for admission pages for these programs, but I'd say that there is no reason that you should not apply to these schools, it's certainly not unheard of to be accepted to a professional program without years and years of work experience. But I also think that you should be able to craft a very solid and convincing SOP using the experience that you do have. Scoring very high on the GRE becomes important if you have a deficiency in your application, I feel that if you at least score within the range of accepted applicants then you can be sure that the score will not hold you back. Many successful applicants do not score as high as the averages posted on the school's websites. It depends on the program, for mathematics and the sciences, the quantitative sections carries a lot of weight, for the humanities, the verbal section is more important. But for professional programs the GRE is far less weighty. Again, the most important components are the SOP, LORs, experience, and I would say your course of study as an undergrad. Your degree is a solid foundation for graduate study in this area, so yes I do believe you have a reasonable chance at the schools you mentioned.

That's an interesting take. I was basing my premise of the GRE being critically important based on what some undergrad professors told me: that for all the fluff given to statements of purpose and recommendations and whatnot, grad admissions mostly come down to a composite of undergrad GPA + GRE. Then again, the profs making these statements were not in professional degree departments, they were pure-academic humanities and quant-based fields, so as you pointed out it may not be applicable to public policy schools.

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting this information on the relative (un)importance of the GRE in admissions for public policy schools? Inference based on the profiles of successful candidates you've seen on forums like this? Straight from an admission rep's mouth? I am slightly skeptical that

(a) one can make such generalizations about a wide range of schools with distinct admissions philosophies

(b ) one can accurately discern a school's weighting of different admissions criteria without full access to all applicant data

Maybe I'm just being grouchy because I got a high GRE and hope it can compensate for my app's weaknesses, but I would like to know the basis for the "GRE not important" stance.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MYRNIST

[Mal83]

I'm getting my information from

a) already having gone through the entire application process and being successfully admitted to The George Washington University with a fairly lower GRE score than their posted average scores for the "typical" accepted applicant

b )knowing someone else who has gotten into the Elliott School with even lower scores them me

c) researching my schools of interest for the application process and seeing more information and emphasis on the other components required for admission (international/work experience, foreign language ability)

d) understanding the difference between a professional degree and a research degree, which comes with at least a vague sense of why particular components of the application carry more weight than the others

e) having been an active member on this forum since March and therefore learning a lot about what's important and what's less important to an admissions committee. If you dive into the Government Affairs forum threads you'll see that what I posted is not new in anyway shape or form.

My program, International Development for example, relevant experience is required for admission, that means that the more of it you have, the more attractive you are as an applicant. I just don't think that a standardized test holds the same weight as say a few years with the State Department or the Peace Corps. As with IR in general, the more international/work experience you have along with foreign language skills and a relevant undergrad degree, the better able you are to express your professional goals in an SOP, not that you're locked into doing exactly what you've laid out, but if you can't put into words what you want to be qualified to do then that means you need some more experience regardless of your GRE scores. The admissions committees for professional programs want to know that you're ready to dive into the curriculum and become a professional in the field even while you study, that's why they're taking you. I don't think the GRE provides much insight into your potential for success in that regard. I'm not saying that the test is completely disregarded, it's required for a reason and it's a factor, but I'm confident in saying that it's not a huge one. That being said, achieving a fantastic score like yours will certainly contribute to your competitiveness, how much I of course can't say, it depends on the particular applicant pool. And sure, generally, the more competitive the program, the higher the average scores for accepted applicants.

The GRE is a major factor for certain programs, that's for sure. If you visit the mathematics forum you'll see the same thing throughout, that a quant score lower than 700 pretty much kills your chances at the top schools, so that's an example of how big a factor it can be. And if you think about it, that's where the quant section on the GRE is a decent indicator of your abilities in that particular field, so it makes sense.

My intent wasn't to diminish your achievement in anyway, you should be celebrating it regardless of your field. But I think that whoever told you the GRE has a huge impact on your application to professional programs was a bit off, so I jumped in to provide a little clarification.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Mal83

[MYRNIST]

I'm getting my information from

a) already having gone through the entire application process and being successfully admitted to The George Washington University with a fairly lower GRE score than their posted average scores for the "typical" accepted applicant

knowing other people who have gotten into the Elliott School with even lower scores them me

c) researching my schools of interest for the application process and never seeing anything that stresses the importance of the GRE

d) understanding the difference between a professional degree and a research degree

e) having been an active member on this forum since March and therefore learning a lot about what's important and what's less important to an admissions committee. If you dive into the Government Affairs forum threads you'll see that what I posted is not new in anyway shape or form.

My program, International Development for example, relevant experience is required for admission, that means that the more of it you have, the more attractive you are as an applicant. I just don't think that a standardized test holds the same weight as say a few years with the State Department or the Peace Corps. As with IR in general, the more international/work experience you have along with foreign language skills and a relevant undergrad degree, the better able you are to express your professional goals in an SOP, not that you're locked into doing exactly what you've laid out, but if you can't put into words what you want to be qualified to do then that means you need some more experience regardless of your GRE scores. The admissions committees for professional programs want to know that you're ready to dive into the curriculum and become a professional in the field even while you study, that's why they're taking you, I don't think the GRE provides much insight into your potential for success in that regard. I'm not saying that the test is completely disregarded, it's required for a reason and it's a factor, but I'm confident in saying that it's not a huge one. And achieving a fantastic score like yours will certainly contribute to your competitiveness, how much I of course can't say. And sure, the more competitive the program, the higher the average scores for accepted applicants.

The GRE is a major factor for certain programs, that's for sure. If you visit the mathematics forum you'll see the same thing throughout, that a quant score lower than 700 pretty much kills your chances at the top schools, so that's an example of how big a factor it can be. And if you think about it, that's where the quant section on the GRE is a decent indicator of your abilities in that particular field, so it makes sense.

My intent wasn't to diminish your achievement in anyway, you should be celebrating it regardless of your field. But I think that whoever told you the GRE has a huge impact on your application to professional programs was a bit off, so I jumped in to provide a little clarification.

Appreciate the thorough response! Everything you said makes sense.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MYRNIST

[Mal83]

ha, you got to my response before I edited that dumb smiley face out of there...anyway, I just wanted to reiterate that no one here can say anything about anyone's chances or what goes through the minds of admissions committees with a whole lot of certainty. Those of us who have been through the process will have a lot to say about our own individual experiences, but every cycle and every applicant pool is different than the one before. Many of us learn a lot from being active here and paying attention to the other field specific forums. What I forgot to mention though, and isn't always at the forefront of an applicant's mind, is that you can always email or call the admissions offices of the schools and ask them about the weight given to the various components of the application. They might not be able to get too specific without your entire application in front of them, but they are the ones that can tell you with the most certainty, and that is what they're there for. It seems like some applicants think that they're bothering them or making a pest out of themselves...but that's not the case and they really are an even better source of information. But in addition to, or in lieu of that, most of us are happy to provide our insight and knowledge.

[Waffle]

Thank you for your answers; it is both motivating and reassuring.

I looked again the SAIS program. If the focus on international economics and the specialization in international finance do fit my interests, I am not sure any functional studies programs fit my career goals. International development could be a possibility but it requires a strong working experience in this particular field. Besides, International Law and Organizations could also be of interest regards to international investing. However, it might require a specific background in law; and I only have had basic courses in law (public law, private law, European law, etc.)

As for the moment, I am still looking for other possibilities. In this sense, do you have idea of programs I should be considering?

[Mal83]

You might be right about Elliott's International Affairs program being more accessible, you can then choose any specialization. Work experience is a must for International Development Studies, at least at the top schools. I'm not so well versed in the law and economics areas, but have you looked into Public Affairs or Public Policy Studies at all? I don't really know if those will suit you but it seems they might have more to do with finances, law, and economics. I believe there is also an international scope to Public Policy Studies as well. Here is a link to Georgetown University's Master of Public Policy admission requirements site:

http://gppi.georgetown.edu/academics/mpp/admissions/12492.html

Looking at this briefly I got a sense that this is something you might be able to work with, especially in regards to what they consider to be professional experience...there are many schools that offer public policy degrees, I just chose Georgetown because it came to mind the fastest.

[Waffle]

Thank you again for your input.

I might be wrong regarding Public Policy degrees but I have the feeling they tend to lead to the public sector. While I don't totally disregard a public sector career, I am more attracted by the private sector.

I also forgot to mention that I'm currently doing a summer school related commodity investments which might add some relative weight; notably for the programs designed in a more "econ/finance" way e.g. Elliot's ITIP. As you mentioned, the international affairs program is probably more accessible but isn't it too the most demanded one within the Elliott School? The choice appears to come down to Econ-Finance focus vs International relations focus, but again I may be mistaken.

[Mal83]

Yes, you're right that Elliott's IA program is the most popular, it's also the largest, so there are more spaces..not sure if that makes it more, less, or about the same when it comes to competition. My advice to you would be to apply for the programs/schools that are best suited to your interests and career goals. It's not as if you have no chance at all, you have some good things to put on an application. I'm not sure if settling for the most accessible program would be the best thing, you might find that it's not nearly as satisfying. It depends on your priorities of course, if you just want to go to graduate school as soon as possible you'll be satisfied with whatever school accepts you, but if you're really set on the programs you mentioned then you'll have to do something else for a year while you improve your application should you not get accepted this time around. I would apply to all of the programs your interested in as well as Elliott's IA program...you have nothing to loose and you want as many options as possible.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Mal83

[CalSeeker]

I realize no one has probably looked at this in some time, but I am in the Elliott ITIP program and can recommend it so far. They also just added a Finance concentration if that is something you are interested in. I had fairly good GRE scores but almost no undergrad math and very little econ, so that type of background is not really necessary. I also considered the general IA program with an economic concentration, but I am glad I did ITIP instead. It is a smaller program, so I feel like we get more individual attention and department assistance in finding internships/jobs, etc. There is also a significant proportion of international students in this particular program.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions.