Apply for MA or PhD? Am I worthy, oh Gradschool Elders?

[kuniklos]

Hi everyone! I am dwindling down my list of grad schools and preparing to get the ball rolling. But one thing I struggle with is whether to apply for a MA or PhD with some programs? Some require an MA before acceptance to a PhD, so that would be an obvious choice. But for a PhD, I doubt myself.

I was a double major in Anthropology and Art History. I have a degree in Anthropology and completed the Art History requirements. My GPA is a 3.6, but my Art History GPA is a 3.9. I was a teaching assistant for two years. I have attended 13 conference in both fields, and presented at 9 of them. I held positions in various college activities as well. I have field experience in archaeology (three years worth), and reading competency in German. I have received nearly a dozen awards and grants for personal research. I will be taking the GREs soon, so I can't comment on that. My CV is 4 pages long for my undergrad activities. Let's just say, I had few hobbies for four years.

My biggest worry is...languages. I can get by in German fine, and many schools can waive the testing because I have taken at least 4 semesters of the language. However, the languages that would best serves me as a secondary would be Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Old Norse... Most of the schools I am applying to have some of the languages (which was a huge reason why they appealed so much to me). They would require a second language, but I would not have access to a classroom for them until I began my education there. I wonder if they would be ok with this idea?

I also wonder if I am in a good position to forgo an MA and get right on task with a PhD. A few of my professors suggested it, but their worries for me had to do with languages as well.

Advice and opinions are greatly appreciated!

My grad school list as follows currently: University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill), Univeristy of Texas (Austin), Cornell University, Bard Graduate Center, Duke University, Rice University. My so-so schools I may still apply to are Bryn Mawr and University of Buffalo (only anthropology program I am applying to).

[fullofpink]

I was a double major in Anthropology and Art History. I have a degree in Anthropology and completed the Art History requirements. My GPA is a 3.6, but my Art History GPA is a 3.9. I was a teaching assistant for two years. I have attended 13 conference in both fields, and presented at 9 of them. I held positions in various college activities as well. I have field experience in archaeology (three years worth), and reading competency in German. I have received nearly a dozen awards and grants for personal research. I will be taking the GREs soon, so I can't comment on that. My CV is 4 pages long for my undergrad activities. Let's just say, I had few hobbies for four years.

1: You will NOT need to list all your undergraduate activities in your CV for art history grad school. In fact, be very selective about the ones you list. You should highlight activities that only show how serious you are about art history (or if you were the president of something and even then, be selective!)

[Here's an example: for an internship for this summer, we had several applicants and only 2 spots to give. We had 4 finalists but it was difficult to make a decision when everyone has a strong academic performance and a wide range of experience. The one I'll mention here had a wonderful gpa from prestigious school and worked with a significant person at a major university art museum, but her cv listed WAYYY too many things so not only did she shrink the font and crammed the corners to fit everything on there - including her participation in ballet and theater and her sorority. We would have gladly accepted her if she only listed her credentials relevant to our needs. It was really frustrating trying to get a command on her if she felt we needed to be impressed with all she's done. In fact, one of her LORs commented how it was hard "to catch" her because she was so involved and it was one of her academic downfalls (being stretched a bit too thin).]

[i'll admit I am a CV snob, but the moral of the story is: make yourself a pretty package that shows how serious you are and what you can bring to the art history table. Like I said in another topic somewhere - you don't need to list EVERYTHING you have ever done to convince the adcoms that you are 1: smart, 2: interesting, 3: organized, 4: dedicated, and 5: hardworking - this will be explained in your SOP when you describe what activities you've done to make yourself a great candidate for grad school.]

2: Are the conferences art history or anthropology?

My biggest worry is...languages. I can get by in German fine, and many schools can waive the testing because I have taken at least 4 semesters of the language.

3: Who waives because you have taken a certain # of semesters? Almost all programs I know still expect you to take a comp. Just curious lol.

However, the languages that would best serves me as a secondary would be Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Old Norse...

4. Why? Are you planning to study medieval Scandinavia? I'm just curious, who teaches in this area?

Most of the schools I am applying to have some of the languages (which was a huge reason why they appealed so much to me).

5: Professors whose interests align with your own > if the school has language classes in your field.

They would require a second language, but I would not have access to a classroom for them until I began my education there. I wonder if they would be ok with this idea?

MA programs don't really expect you to have a command of two languages (Williams does, tho) ; most just require one to pass comps. PhDs require two - some programs do not care if you only have one under your belt expecting you to master the second before you do your PhD field exams (which should be like your 3 or 4th year). If you need to learn a second language, most do it on the way. It's a bit more difficult during your phd program, but it's doable.

I also wonder if I am in a good position to forgo an MA and get right on task with a PhD. A few of my professors suggested it, but their worries for me had to do with languages as well.

Your credentials are good. Are your presentations mostly anthropology conferences? [ I dual-majored in anth (concentration archaeology) and art history, so I now a bit where you are coming from. ]. I find that anths tend to have more opportunities to attend conferences. I would be very conscientious of how you discuss your anthropological background and would definitely recommend highlight your art history experience and downplaying the anth. Last thing you want is an adcom to go "does this person KNOW they are applying for art history?"

The languages are a moot topic - if you already have a command of German, then picking up a second language won't be that difficult and there are summers to do it in.

Other questions:

Have you done a senior thesis?

What work of writing were you planning to submit to these schools for AH?

Are you knowledgeable of art historiography and methodology? If not, it's a not a big deal for MA programs - but if you are it will make you look good in the eyes of PhD programs.

[kuniklos]

1: You will NOT need to list all your undergraduate activities in your CV for art history grad school. In fact, be very selective about the ones you list. You should highlight activities that only show how serious you are about art history (or if you were the president of something and even then, be selective!)

I admit my art history credentials are only about 10% of my CV. I had wanted to an an archaeologist since I was a little girl, but found when I got there...I wasn't happy. I took up art history as a second major on a whim and found those classes to be my "relax and enjoy" classes. Both departments fought over my for a TA position, and the art history department was willing to give me a higher wage because they really, really wanted me. I was a junior by the time I figured out that this area not only made me happier, but gave me all the thing anthropology didn't. But I kept attending everything and doing field work just in case I changed my mind. Sadly I didn't. But all of my activities are academic: President of the Anthropology Club for two years, fundraiser for South American refugees, Student Mentor for Freshman Lecture... I would hate to not list all the things I was told to get involved in. :/ I think I might be spread too thin with art history outside of being a TA and three conferences.

2: Are the conferences art history or anthropology?

Nearly all of them are anthropology. Three are art history, but I only presented at two while volunteering for another. But the papers were relevant in art history as well as I has a focus on material culture.

3: Who waives because you have taken a certain # of semesters? Almost all programs I know still expect you to take a comp. Just curious lol.

I have noticed all the state schools seem to have this rule. Penn State (although not on my list), University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of Texas Austin, University of California Berkley...

4. Why? Are you planning to study medieval Scandinavia? I'm just curious, who teaches in this area?

Basically, yes. I enjoy looking at images showing cultural transition on Runestones in that region. It's what one of my senior thesis papers was on. I also adore Viking culture, Celtic culture and the Early Medieval period. I have a special love for medieval sexuality and image. Schwing! Plus, some of my favorite articles are in Swedish (or German) so I found the two to be interesting. Dutch is temping if only because I love going to Belgium and it would be damn nice to know what the heck I am reading in the museums. XD

5: Professors whose interests align with your own > if the school has language classes in your field.

Michael Camille would have been perfect for me in one of my interest areas: sex and the culture of love. But he died in 2003. Dale Kinney is a lovely woman who would have worked with my interests (Bryn Mawr) but she's on route to retire and no longer viable. That's the pickle: there isn't any specific to vikings. There are two archaeologists but...I hate one of the schools deeply (spent time researching there and going on their field schools), and the other...let's just say this is a professor I am not interested in doing anything with. And I don't want to pursue a degree to teach anthropology either. I have other interests in the period. One being medieval sexuality (I presented a paper that got alot of interesting responses, and would love to go deeper into someday) which would leave me with Linas Neagley at Rice University, and another being Beate Fricke as she has a side interest in Celtic studies. I am aware I need to find a medievalist in which I can relate to in some part, but I am not going to find anyone state side exactly to my needs. No, I can't leave the states for school either. It's unfortunate but true. I need to look for other strengths that will help me, as I'm certain I will be on my own much of the time. So I have to look at resources more than mentor as I'm delving into something you really don't see state side at all.

MA programs don't really expect you to have a command of two languages (Williams does, tho) ; most just require one to pass comps. PhDs require two - some programs do not care if you only have one under your belt expecting you to master the second before you do your PhD field exams (which should be like your 3 or 4th year). If you need to learn a second language, most do it on the way. It's a bit more difficult during your phd program, but it's doable.

Brown makes me sad, because they require two for the MA as well. And I loved going there for conferences and Model UN in high school. Drats!

Your credentials are good. Are your presentations mostly anthropology conferences? [ I dual-majored in anth (concentration archaeology) and art history, so I now a bit where you are coming from. ]. I find that anths tend to have more opportunities to attend conferences. I would be very conscientious of how you discuss your anthropological background and would definitely recommend highlight your art history experience and downplaying the anth. Last thing you want is an adcom to go "does this person KNOW they are applying for art history?"

This is a worry of mine too. If I downplayed the anthropology I feel like I wouldn't have much to give on paper. I was hoping that an inter-disciplinary approach would be a lure: aka I'll do archaeology to suppliment my research when I'm not at the books.

Other questions:

Have you done a senior thesis?

What work of writing were you planning to submit to these schools for AH?

I have two senior thesises, one for each of my majors. I also have a handful of 15-20 page papers in art history as an option as well. My numero uno choice is my senior art history thesis (presented at a conference) , "Viking Rune Stones: Voice of Scandinavian Transition." But there are a few schools that request two samples. I am fighting on whether to send my paper on interpreting the female figure in the oeuve of Artemisia Gentileschi, or a paper on Rasta Art I did for a caribean course. My professors loved both, but they have nothing to do with my interests. I can do the methodology just fine...but I am unsure about considering a paper I have on medieval sexuality. It's an anthropology paper for a special topics course on sexual behavior. I also have historiography papers from taking a medieval documents course which may or maynot be helpful.

Are you knowledgeable of art historiography and methodology? If not, it's a not a big deal for MA programs - but if you are it will make you look good in the eyes of PhD programs.

Sure can! And I can tell you discrepancies between at least three art history journals for siting. ;p I'm just not sure how to show it other than give them my papers! XD

I appreciate the advice and questions. If I had known this was what I wanted a year sooner, I would have arranged my activities to accomodation. But I can't help but cling to a sinking ship anyhow. I enjoyed being a TA for art history a great deal, and had the opportunity to teach the intro classes on the Early Christian and Medieval Period, as well as some classes when the professor wasn't able to attend. And I was allowed to throw in my own slides, so the "barbarians" got some art history love in there too. But here I am getting gabby!

I suppose I should throw out a PhD application where they will allow it. A few schools require an MA first though. Turns out I actually like those schools most.

[fullofpink]

I admit my art history credentials are only about 10% of my CV. I had wanted to an an archaeologist since I was a little girl, but found when I got there...I wasn't happy. I took up art history as a second major on a whim and found those classes to be my "relax and enjoy" classes.... But all of my activities are academic: President of the Anthropology Club for two years, fundraiser for South American refugees, Student Mentor for Freshman Lecture... I would hate to not list all the things I was told to get involved in. :/ I think I might be spread too thin with art history outside of being a TA and three conferences.

I know it hurts, but I think it is something that you should heavily consider. I fail to see how being a student mentor for freshman lecture (unless it is - specifically - teaching a class or running discussion for an undergraduate class) and the refugee group will relate to your understanding and command of art history. I'm on the fence for the anthro club - it could should your leadership skills, but on the other hand, it isn't really relevant unless you guys did something really amazing (running budgets; really moving and shaking, etc.).

Does the art history department at your school have a graduate program? If so, see if you can give your full CV to the DGS (or even your art history adviser) for some clarification. I would ask them to X out anything that they find irrelevant, and then consider it from there.

Nearly all of them are anthropology. Three are art history, but I only presented at two while volunteering for another. But the papers were relevant in art history as well as I has a focus on material culture.

I wouldn't put conferences that you attended but did not present at.

I would only consider anthropological conferences that are relevant to your topic.

However, do add a section for "Professional Memberships" if you belong to any - including anth societies.

I have noticed all the state schools seem to have this rule. Penn State (although not on my list), University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of Texas Austin, University of California Berkley...

Penn State doesn't, and Berkeley only allows you to do this for one of the 2 required languages. Just be wary - you may want to ask individual departments what they expect because even through they may say it's okay to do this, it may not be common practice.

Basically, yes. I enjoy looking at images showing cultural transition on Runestones in that region. It's what one of my senior thesis papers was on. I also adore Viking culture, Celtic culture and the Early Medieval period. I have a special love for medieval sexuality and image. Schwing! Plus, some of my favorite articles are in Swedish (or German) so I found the two to be interesting. Dutch is temping if only because I love going to Belgium and it would be damn nice to know what the heck I am reading in the museums. XD

It's soooooooo easy to find 10000 archaeologists who focus on these topics during the early medieval period - not so much in art history, unfortunately. I think finding someone in art history who closely aligns with your field (and area) of interest may be difficult. I see the dilemma you speak of when saying you can't cross the pond - I wish you well on finding American medievalists who will instruct you on this lead. The professors I reviewed at some of the schools didn't seem to concentrate too often in the Scandinavian countries. Maybe I missed something?

Michael Camille would have been perfect for me in one of my interest areas: sex and the culture of love. But he died in 2003. Dale Kinney is a lovely woman who would have worked with my interests (Bryn Mawr) but she's on route to retire and no longer viable.

In my area of interest, everyone has either died recently or are set to retire soon or are so extremely popular (*cough*Grigsby*cough*) that it's made finding a good graduate program very difficult.

That's the pickle: there isn't any specific to vikings. There are two archaeologists but...I hate one of the schools deeply (spent time researching there and going on their field schools), and the other...let's just say this is a professor I am not interested in doing anything with. And I don't want to pursue a degree to teach anthropology either. I have other interests in the period. One being medieval sexuality (I presented a paper that got alot of interesting responses, and would love to go deeper into someday) which would leave me with Linas Neagley at Rice University, and another being Beate Fricke as she has a side interest in Celtic studies. I am aware I need to find a medievalist in which I can relate to in some part, but I am not going to find anyone state side exactly to my needs. No, I can't leave the states for school either. It's unfortunate but true. I need to look for other strengths that will help me, as I'm certain I will be on my own much of the time. So I have to look at resources more than mentor as I'm delving into something you really don't see state side at all.

Even if the college has all the resources you need, if there is not a professor who is strongly suited to your area then I would sincerely doubt about being accepted into the program. Period.

There may be professors who have a general knowledge of the field and are willing to help students out on the peripheral, but if your field is not widely studied (and I doubt that viking art is. It is soooo an anthropology subject, LOL) you will have a hard time coming up with resources that will be pertinent to publishing in art history. What I suggest is to look at CAA's website and review who is writing what dissertations on what and under whose guidance. This will allow you to see who is willing to bend over for what area. Here's the link: http://www.caareview...g/dissertations

This is a worry of mine too. If I downplayed the anthropology I feel like I wouldn't have much to give on paper. I was hoping that an inter-disciplinary approach would be a lure: aka I'll do archaeology to suppliment my research when I'm not at the books.

Ok.

Because you have attended AND presented at conferences this gives you a major edge: you know how to tailor your work to academic audiences with a wide range of values and you know how use your connections in a professional way.

Because you have participated in field work and worked with scholars side-by-side, you understand what needs to go into research, what results from it, and -- even more important - your archaeology background has given you a solid foundation in material culture. Art history, like it or not, is about objects and how these objects appeal and relate to humanity. You have a unique perception to this area and - even more so - you have a solid foundation of how to analyze and review these objects. This is what art historians do (but not with - say - spoons and bones. lol).

Archaeology gives you a BIG advantage because of your work with material culture, you just have to explain (like above) why your study in this field has to do with art history. Therefore, you can eliminate a LOT of the things anth-wise that have little to do with your intended subject matter because you don't need 40,000 examples to explain the simple concept: I know objects and here's why: I've studied them in-hand.

I have two senior thesises, one for each of my majors. I also have a handful of 15-20 page papers in art history as an option as well. My numero uno choice is my senior art history thesis (presented at a conference) , "Viking Rune Stones: Voice of Scandinavian Transition." But there are a few schools that request two samples. I am fighting on whether to send my paper on interpreting the female figure in the oeuve of Artemisia Gentileschi, or a paper on Rasta Art I did for a caribean course. My professors loved both, but they have nothing to do with my interests. I can do the methodology just fine...but I am unsure about considering a paper I have on medieval sexuality.

I would have to review the medieval paper to say "yeah! do that." Again, talk to your art history adviser and get their opinion.

I enjoyed being a TA for art history a great deal, and had the opportunity to teach the intro classes on the Early Christian and Medieval Period, as well as some classes when the professor wasn't able to attend.

This alone puts you ahead of many undergraduates applying for programs. You can also delve into your teaching background and why this has help strengthen your appeal to art history as well as why it makes you a great candidate for programs: You've Already Had Experience Teaching It.

I suppose I should throw out a PhD application where they will allow it. A few schools require an MA first though. Turns out I actually like those schools most.

Don't discredit the PhD programs. If you know that you want to become a professor, then this will be the best way to do it. If you go to a MA program (terminal) and then apply to PhD programs, you will add another year to your study.

Some PhD programs are a joint-program. They require a MA first, but then you are segued into the PhD program (they assume that's what you want to do). Definitely speak with an adviser or DGS about this. You seem like a great candidate, although I'm worried that your area of interest is too specialized. :\ Definitely look at the CAA listings, think up a list of really great current potentials and think about contacting them (or their departments) and asking about your interest. Many may confess that they have no authority in that area, or they might say "yes! What a fascinating topic! Lets do it!" -- especially if you come off as a compelling and strong researcher.

[violetvivian]

Kuniklos, I think you sound like a really interesting, attractive candidate for any of the programs you mentioned. Don't be discouraged. If every student followed exactly in the scholarly mold of every mentor, a field would never grow or expand. Art History has found its way to psychoanalitic theory, critical theory, race theory, material culture, visual culture, etc. because of people who ventured outside of traditional boundaries. You sound passionate about what you've chosen to study, and if you are confident that Art History is the right housing for it, you will make it work.

I'm going to send you a PM with some firsthand info about one of the programs you mentioned. Best of luck!

[kuniklos]

</p>

I know it hurts, but I think it is something that you should heavily consider. I fail to see how being a student mentor for freshman lecture (unless it is - specifically - teaching a class or running discussion for an undergraduate class) and the refugee group will relate to your understanding and command of art history. I'm on the fence for the anthro club - it could should your leadership skills, but on the other hand, it isn't really relevant unless you guys did something really amazing (running budgets; really moving and shaking, etc.).

We did fundraisers for refugee communities in south America, petitioned guest speaks (including Mary Leakey and Jesse Jackson), I alone wrote the grant proposals to get extra funding for students doing conferences as a club activity...I hope that would be good? I want to show my leadership skills, and took the position at the suggestion of my advisors to run for it.

Does the art history department at your school have a graduate program? If so, see if you can give your full CV to the DGS (or even your art history adviser) for some clarification. I would ask them to X out anything that they find irrelevant, and then consider it from there.

Sadly, no. There were about a dozen art history students when I was there, and most of them minors. The program will be cut int he next few years sadly. Any there are no medievalists unfortunately. But I will get in contact with the head of the department, as I know we got along well and she might may be able to help.

I wouldn't put conferences that you attended but did not present at.

I would only consider anthropological conferences that are relevant to your topic.However, do add a section for &quot;Professional Memberships&quot; if you belong to any - including anth societies.

<

Bummer! I attended a really prestigious conference at Princeton last year. Blast, guess it isn't so worth it now! And I have got myself quite a few professional memberships. My anthropology conference topics…well, only one of then had anything to do with the medieval.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The others were actually cultural anthropology. And I doubt lengthy survey on debunking the D&amp;D culture myths will look terribly great (although it almost got me an internship).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Players aren’t pasty white, basement swellers who have never known the touch of a woman.

Edited July 28, 2011 by kuniklos

[kuniklos]

Penn State doesn't, and Berkeley only allows you to do this for one of the 2 required languages. Just be wary - you may want to ask individual departments what they expect because even through they may say it's okay to do this, it may not be common practice.

I got the go ahead for the two state schools I am applying to from their graduate cooridinator. They listed it on their site as well. Pennstate I figured would be the same, as they have the same mention on their site, and both professors I TAed for got their PhDs from there and went the same route for one of their languages (the one that was least important for them though).

It's soooooooo easy to find 10000 archaeologists who focus on these topics during the early medieval period - not so much in art history, unfortunately. I think finding someone in art history who closely aligns with your field (and area) of interest may be difficult. I see the dilemma you speak of when saying you can't cross the pond - I wish you well on finding American medievalists who will instruct you on this lead. The professors I reviewed at some of the schools didn't seem to concentrate too often in the Scandinavian countries. Maybe I missed something?

There actually aren't many archaeologists who have my specialty in the states. One being Tom McGovern and the other being Tina Thurston. I am applying to where Tina Thurston is, but not Hunter's College. I hate the school and they couldn't offer me enough to move to NYC. But that won't stop me from getting into his Icelandic digs (he's a great guy who hooked me up with my first field school actually). There are a few others, but they are purely Byzantine people. Viking studies appeal more to landscape archaeologists and those who like settlements. There is usually limited artifact available as the standard dig area have highly acidic soil that destroy organic remains. Accept some amazing places in Sweden and Iceland. You get the occational awesome wooden or linen bit.

I think this is sort of an untapped area for American art historians and archaeologists. My own personal goal is that I would love to change that. Besides, the viking were cool as hell. There are great documents written by clergy complaining of losing women to sweet smelling northerners. No wonder, they were the only one that really bathed and scented themselves.

In my area of interest, everyone has either died recently or are set to retire soon or are so extremely popular (*cough*Grigsby*cough*) that it's made finding a good graduate program very difficult.

I hear ya. We should gripe over pastry about it.

Even if the college has all the resources you need, if there is not a professor who is strongly suited to your area then I would sincerely doubt about being accepted into the program. Period.

That's the thing that makes me think I have wasted my dreams and my undergrad. I'm not sure what I need in a graduate program is even there. How do I carve a niche if no one can give me a shot? This person here: http://arthistory.berkeley.edu/Faculty_Fricke.html

...is the closest I really have. She does some Celtic work, but even I know that might be follow to lump that culture in with vikings. It's comparable but not the same.

There may be professors who have a general knowledge of the field and are willing to help students out on the peripheral, but if your field is not widely studied (and I doubt that viking art is. It is soooo an anthropology subject, LOL) you will have a hard time coming up with resources that will be pertinent to publishing in art history. What I suggest is to look at CAA's website and review who is writing what dissertations on what and under whose guidance. This will allow you to see who is willing to bend over for what area. Here's the link: http://www.caareview...g/dissertations

I love their journal, I have been a member for years. A viking paper does come up now and then, but there isn't much of it. I think there is something to be said about it. Americans aren't gernally interested, or it hasn't been explored enough. There is a crap ton overseas, but I really am landlocked here for most of the year.

Because you have attended AND presented at conferences this gives you a major edge: you know how to tailor your work to academic audiences with a wide range of values and you know how use your connections in a professional way.

Because you have participated in field work and worked with scholars side-by-side, you understand what needs to go into research, what results from it, and -- even more important - your archaeology background has given you a solid foundation in material culture. Art history, like it or not, is about objects and how these objects appeal and relate to humanity. You have a unique perception to this area and - even more so - you have a solid foundation of how to analyze and review these objects. This is what art historians do (but not with - say - spoons and bones. lol).

Don't know the spoons and bones. Although in my case bones and pottery. Ok, this makes me feel good then. I was an invited speaker to a few of them. The American Anthropological Association was said I couldn't make New Orleans. Too rich for my blood that year.

Archaeology gives you a BIG advantage because of your work with material culture, you just have to explain (like above) why your study in this field has to do with art history. Therefore, you can eliminate a LOT of the things anth-wise that have little to do with your intended subject matter because you don't need 40,000 examples to explain the simple concept: I know objects and here's why: I've studied them in-hand.

This is a good point. I hope I can express this without sounding snobby. "I recognize the value of artifacts I have handled in the scope of Art History which are often cast aside as a survey number in a historical context." Although part of me wants to yip, "So...I preserved a 13th century wooden cross in Ireland...it gone thrown away after anlysis and no one recorded the embelishments. I totally hit the guiness after that day."

I would have to review the medieval paper to say "yeah! do that." Again, talk to your art history adviser and get their opinion.

My advisor...was not good. It was a photography and modern arts teacher. The head of the department taught our research and writing class and said mine was really fantastic. But I plan on making a visit to her office to chat about grad school anyhow. She was rooting for me to persue it. But if you want to take a peak, I have no problem exposing my undergrad sweat and tears.

This alone puts you ahead of many undergraduates applying for programs. You can also delve into your teaching background and why this has help strengthen your appeal to art history as well as why it makes you a great candidate for programs: You've Already Had Experience Teaching It.

Don't discredit the PhD programs. If you know that you want to become a professor, then this will be the best way to do it. If you go to a MA program (terminal) and then apply to PhD programs, you will add another year to your study.

Some PhD programs are a joint-program. They require a MA first, but then you are segued into the PhD program (they assume that's what you want to do). Definitely speak with an adviser or DGS about this. You seem like a great candidate, although I'm worried that your area of interest is too specialized. :\ Definitely look at the CAA listings, think up a list of really great current potentials and think about contacting them (or their departments) and asking about your interest. Many may confess that they have no authority in that area, or they might say "yes! What a fascinating topic! Lets do it!" -- especially if you come off as a compelling and strong researcher.

I may have made a mistake then. I thought MA and PhD admissions were weighed separately. As in one would be more difficult than another. I would rather play it safe and apply to an MA if there was a better chance of me getting in, than all PhD programs and get accepted no where. A few schools I have on my wish list do require an MA. That doesn't really bother me at all.

Thanks again for all your input. Our art history department was very, very tiny, and I feel far less equipt on paper with it than I do anthropology.

[fullofpink]

Haha, we are tearing up this topic. If you want to continue this by email, I can PM you my email address.

[losemygrip]

Quote

Even if the college has all the resources you need, if there is not a professor who is strongly suited to your area then I would sincerely doubt about being accepted into the program. Period.

That's the thing that makes me think I have wasted my dreams and my undergrad. I'm not sure what I need in a graduate program is even there. How do I carve a niche if no one can give me a shot? This person here: http://arthistory.be...lty_Fricke.html

I don't necessarily agree. Some grad programs may be this way, but not all. Some are actually looking for interesting minds with bright futures. No, they won't take if you you want to do Chinese and they have no faculty members anywhere in Asian art. But If you want to do Vikings and they have an early medievalist, that's reasonable enough, particularly if you note some vague methodological affinity. Or if there's someone in history or anthropology who does Vikings that could be a reader and consultant for you.

My personal opinion is that you have a really interesting background, intriguing research, and a lot of schools would be interested. I don't know why you're so obsessed with this language thing. You have the German--that's what's important. You'll eventually need two languages for a Ph.D. You can pick them up before, or during. Some of the people in my program were still desperately trying to pass the German exam right before they graduated. (In fact, I think one of them NEVER passed it., but they let her graduate anyhow.) The real problem is if you end up somewhere that doesn't offer Scandinavian languages. You can always do French, and meet the requirement, but you'll need something Scandinavian for your research. If you couldn't get it there, you'd have to pick it up on your own.

I think you're going to have to go to a gigantic state school somewhere (like Texas or Penn State, or Michigan--or Minnesota, where I think they are in general VERY into Scandinavian Studies--check it out!) where Scandinavian languages would be taught, and where you could probably find people in history/English/anthropology interested in your focus. You're going to need to be fairly interdisciplinary. I think admission committees will be OK with that. Many might really like it. I would research all the possible connections well for all your potential graduate schools. In my grad school (which happens to be one of the 3 I mentioned above) you were REQUIRED to have an "outside" reader on your committee. And some people had more than one.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that the four I listed are really the only suitable places for you. Perhaps Minnesota most of all. Maybe Ohio State as a fallback school.

[losemygrip]

Oh, and this M.A. vs. Ph.D. thing--many grad programs are Ph.D. only. Some offer M.A. and Ph.D. And some are terminal M.A. In the first case, you apply and are accepted to the Ph.D. prgram straight from undergrad. You MIGHT pick up an MA along the way. In the second you would be admitted to the M.A. program and complete that, then re-apply for the Ph.D. program (or go elsewhere). In the third you HAVE to go elsewhere. Terminal MA programs are good fallbacks, since they lavish their money and attention on MA level students. I wouldn't worry about this, either. Apply to appropriate schools--this is just a structural difference in the programs.

[losemygrip]

OK, I can't believe I'm coming back to this again. This odd research focus kept banging around in my head, so I did some Googling.

Substitute "Wisconsin" for "Minnesota" above. They have a long-established Scandinavian Studies Department where you can actually take Old Norse, and there is a Viking person on the faculty. Minnesota does have a large German/Scandinavian languages department, but their art history department has really shrunk since I last looked at it. Probably not the best choice for that reason.

I also discovered that Berkeley has a Viking specialist in their Scandinavian Studies Dept. And they have the best art history program in the country according to the NRC.

I saw that Penn State also has a famous Viking expert. So I can see why you chose that.

Too bad you can't go to England. They literally have "Viking Studies" programs there.

Anyhow, I think that's the way to go. Seek out Viking scholars in any discipline, and when they happen to be in schools with good art history departments (with a specialist in early medieval), put that schol on your list.

[kuniklos]

I apologize for a late reply to losemygrip, and I appreciate the information! It makes me feel a little bit more at ease about things. Thank you!

[maeisenb]

Too bad you can't go to England. They literally have "Viking Studies" programs there.

I'm not an art historian, but England might be worth a shot since they do have a large program of Viking stuff there.

[kuniklos]

I'm not an art historian, but England might be worth a shot since they do have a large program of Viking stuff there.

Other than for the summer, it's really not an option for me. At least not long term. I'm about to get married. Unless my fiancee was cool with us separating for half a decade or more, it just can't happen. We have spend the last 5 summers apart just fine, but if I were to take up a PhD overseas I might as well break off the wedding. He's willing to go anywhere in the US for me, but his job possibilities overseas are not good, and getting work permits for both of us is a headache we're both not willing to do. After all, what is a computer forensicist going to do in the UK with a background specifically in US laws?

[cleisthenes]

That's the thing that makes me think I have wasted my dreams and my undergrad. I'm not sure what I need in a graduate program is even there. How do I carve a niche if no one can give me a shot? This person here:http://arthistory.be...lty_Fricke.html

...is the closest I really have. She does some Celtic work, but even I know that might be follow to lump that culture in with vikings. It's comparable but not the same.

I would keep in mind that Beate is on leave right now and thus may not be looking at applications, perhaps making this not the best year to be applying to study with her.

Cheers.

[maeisenb]

Other than for the summer, it's really not an option for me. At least not long term. I'm about to get married. Unless my fiancee was cool with us separating for half a decade or more, it just can't happen. We have spend the last 5 summers apart just fine, but if I were to take up a PhD overseas I might as well break off the wedding. He's willing to go anywhere in the US for me, but his job possibilities overseas are not good, and getting work permits for both of us is a headache we're both not willing to do. After all, what is a computer forensicist going to do in the UK with a background specifically in US laws?

Ah, that is completely 100% understandable and makes perfect sense then. Congrats on the wedding!

[fullofpink]

It would be VERY difficult for him to find a job in the UK (and perhaps, even you) - UK gives preference to its own citizens, and very few programs outweigh American programs anyway if you were to come back. Hopefully, this works out for you Good luck (and congrats!!!)