Southern Illinois University PhD program

[northstar22]

I've noticed that there haven't been any posts on Southern Illinois' poli sci program here. I know it's far from top 25, but it does seem to cover several of my interests (public policy, American politics, and political theory) and allows a broad-based approach, rather than shoving you into one area (i.e., comparative, theory, American, etc.). Does anyone have experience with this program? I've also noticed their minimum admission requirements are pretty low (2.7 GPA, 1000 combined GRE, etc.).

Would attending somewhere like SIU (or any other lesser-known program) be a bad decision when my main goal is to become a teaching tenured professor at a smaller department (third-tier, directional, rural liberal arts college or lesser-known Big Ten, Big 12, etc.)? Is a PhD from a top 25 essential to reach my goals? If it matters, I'd be coming in with a Master's in Public Administration with a focus in American policy.

[northstar22]

Also, does anyone have any experience with Colorado State University? I know they have a similar broad-based program as SIU, with an added focus on environmental policy.

[RWBG]

You may not need a Ph.D from a top 25, but the market is very competitive, and Southern Illinois is far enough away from the top that it may prove tricky to find a position. As a guide, this website suggests that only 29% of graduates from Southern Illinois get jobs upon completion of their Ph.D (of which I imagine a very small percentage are tenure-track), and their drop-out rate is very high. Without knowing your stats, it's hard to assess how competitive you would be at other institutions, but I would recommend you think through it carefully before committing to a program that subjects you to such high risk in the long term.

[orst11]

First off, I will mention that I have had friends go to SIU, maybe not for poli sci but for other subjects. SIU typically is a school a lot of people in the Midwest put down as a safety. The program actually was decent in the 90s and really it seems when they lost faculty they never really hired more up and coming professors. I will note Carbondale is cheap to live in, I remember hearing people have 2-3 bedroom apartments for the price of crappy studios in Chicago.

On another note, I think northstar22 is thinking practical. Obviously, if you are going to pursue a Phd, funding is important. Some of my professors have even recommended schools not in the Top 50, because they know funding is one of the most important aspects of pursuing the degree.The truth is some programs on the lower end do provide better funding than some top programs.

The problem I think Southern Illinois has is exactly what RWBG states, their recent placement record is not very strong. I do think the program may be able to get you a position at a small liberal arts school position like you mention but the likelihood of a lesser known Big 10, Big 12, is unlikely. I know I saw one of their recent graduates was lecturing at UT-Knoxville and Georgia Southern if that gives you any idea. Also just by browsing the net some I have noticed some of the placements they have listed on their website are at least a few years old. I would advise if you are interested to send them an email. When you are thinking about placement always consider the likelihood that most candidates teach at places so many spots lower ranked then the institution they studied at.

[RWBG]

It appears I didn't include the link to the "this website" I mentioned in my earlier post. Here it is:

http://graduate-school.phds.org/university/siuc/program/outcomes/political-science/1807

[northstar22]

Wow . . . 28% placement is atrocious. The 70% drop-out rate looks even worse. Unlike many people, I LOVE the rural Midwest (it's home) so living in Carbondale would be awesome for me, and I'd be perfectly happy living somewhere like Upland, Indiana or Marshall, Minnesota (BTDT), as long as I get to be a professor. The South is NOT my thing, though.

As far as my stats, well, I haven't taken the GRE yet (I'll take it in a few months, applying 2012-2013 season for Fall 2013 admission), but my undergrad GPA was 3.5, and I'm currently working on a conference paper.

Besides SIU and Colorado State, other lower-ranked programs I'm looking at are Purdue (Pub. Policy, Am. Pol.), Missouri (Am. Politics, Pub. Policy), Colorado-Boulder (Pub. Policy), Kent State (Am. pol., pub. policy), Michigan State (pol. theory), Northern Arizona (Am. pol., pub. admin) and Western Michigan (my alma mater and in my hometown) (Am. pol, pol. theory). Does anyone have knowledge of these programs?

Top 25 to top 40 schools I'm considering are Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska-Lincoln, Indiana and Notre Dame. Reach dream schools would be Michigan, Wisconsin and Rochester. I'm not interested in Ivies, colleges located in major cities or any institutions in the South.

RWBG, thanks for giving me that website . . . it really helps.

Edited September 2, 2011 by northstar22

[northstar22]

I'm also somewhat interested in Public Administration Ph.D programs at Syracuse, Kansas and Indiana, but I'm not really sure if I want to continue in public admin. at the doctoral level. It would obviously save me some time, because I'd already have an MPA, but my passion lies with political science.

[orst11]

I am like you, I love the Midwest. I have lived throughout the US and in Europe and to me it always feels like home. Now that I am looking into a PhD I am actually limited by location because of personal reasons, so some of the schools you mentioned were on my radar or are on my radar currently and I just wanted to note a few things.

Besides SIU and Colorado State, other lower-ranked programs I'm looking at are Purdue (Pub. Policy, Am. Pol.), Missouri (Am. Politics, Pub. Policy), Colorado-Boulder (Pub. Policy), Kent State (Am. pol., pub. policy), Michigan State (pol. theory), Northern Arizona (Am. pol., pub. admin) and Western Michigan (my alma mater and in my hometown) (Am. pol, pol. theory). Does anyone have knowledge of these programs?

Top 25 to top 40 schools I'm considering are Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska-Lincoln, Indiana and Notre Dame. Reach dream schools would be Michigan, Wisconsin and Rochester. I'm not interested in Ivies, colleges located in major cities or any institutions in the South.

As far as lower ranked programs, Western Michigan has excellent placement. Typically they place 90-100% of their candidates in small colleges throughout the Midwest. The only reason for me it doesn't work is because they lack a focus in IR. As far as Northern Arizona, a professor of mine noted funding has been hit a miss there recently so advised not to apply when I mentioned it to him. Colorado-Boulder is a pretty solid program and does put you in a position typically to do some research and teach and lower ranked programs. One of my professors actually did her PhD at Colorado and said they definitely train you to both research and teach. Missouri seems to be more focused on the GRE than Purdue is when applying but both seem to place in locales you may like teaching. Purdue's program is slightly larger than Missouri's and since it is in the Committee of Institutional Cooperation (CIC) it does give you a better opportunity to do research throughout the Big 10 schools. Michigan State isn't really considered lower-ranked I would put them in with the list that includes Ill-UC, Iowa, UNL, Indiana, and Notre Dame. I am actually considering a few of these.

I think UNL's ranking will improve in the coming years given its placement now in the Big 10. Maybe research expertise at other schools can rub off on them. I think at both UNL and maybe at Kansas you may be able to enroll directly into the PhD following your MPA. I know both programs have terminal masters programs as well and typically you aren't funded until you start your PhD studies. I know Iowa typically only has funding for about 6 or so candidates so it makes it hard to get an offer with funding. Indiana is really nit picky when it comes to GRE scores and likes to think they are as good as they once were. Notre Dame obviously is well known for theory.

I think once you get an idea of your GRE score it would help you cut down the list some, and give you an idea on where to apply.

Edited September 2, 2011 by orst11

[alm345]

I'm actually at SIU- those figures you cite above are accurate to the early 2000s- but not anymore. We're in recovery mode- and doing quite well.

We actually have a lot of young assistant profs coming up on tenure right now... mostly American- but there are several comparativsts as well.

We place better than 29%- most of our graduates end up in the kinds of jobs the OP expressed interest in.

Feel free to private message me for more information.