ridgey Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I didn't apply anywhere I couldn't see myself attending. I'd rather go somewhere a little more prestigious than my 5th choice school, but if I got in there with full funding (and not elsewhere) I would have trouble saying no - besides I like the location. My top choice school coincidentally happens to be in-state for me, so even if I didn't get funding (I am applying for Master's programs), I would be tempted to use savings/work to go there. If I don't get funding *anywhere* my backup plan is to work through the summer and apply for schools in Australia and New Zealand. I'm a dual citizen (US/NZ) so I could go there for not a whole lot, tuition wise. The disadvantage is that at least University of Auckland (the best for my program) doesn't offer much funding. So we'll see! Perhaps tomorrow will bring good news in my mailbox or inbox! I can't believe I'm gonna say this, being a kiwi, but the funding situation DEFINITELY is better in Australia. You're almost guaranteed not to have to pay tuition, and there's money floating around through the govt, eg NH&MRC. You also have the advantage of US$ going a LONG way in these parts at the moment.
ridgey Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Whats the point of applying to a school if you wouldn't go there even if it was your only acceptance (with funding)? That seems kind of silly. Exactly! Especially given the money and time in these applications.
nandelle Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I can't believe I'm gonna say this, being a kiwi, but the funding situation DEFINITELY is better in Australia. You're almost guaranteed not to have to pay tuition, and there's money floating around through the govt, eg NH&MRC. That's very interesting - I'll definitely look into those programs. I don't think I qualify for many, since I haven't lived in New Zealand for a long time and I'm currently living in the states. Tuition is ridiculously low, though, compared to US schools! You also have the advantage of US$ going a LONG way in these parts at the moment. True! That does help a lot. Although after going to Canada for undergraduate, I'm a little more wary. When I started undergrad, the exchange rate was something like 1.35 Canadian/1.00 US, and by the time I graduated, it was .95 Canadian/1.00 US. Kind of painful on the tuition bills!!
Phonologist Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Ha, I remember having "preferences." It's funny how just hearing back from programs (3 of 4 with no acceptances yet) has changed my perspective. I'd be happy to spend five years in a bus stop bathroom if I'm funded.
nandelle Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I feel your pain - after another day like today at work, I'd be willing to go anywhere that would pay me to go back to being a student!!
freefallen Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I like all the places I applied to. I'll go to any that gives me a livable funding. (I'm pretty cheap! )
Dinali Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I'd be thrilled to be accepted at any of the places below. Obviously I have a preferential order (not necessarily the order below), but I wouldn't have applied to anywhere I wouldn't actually be willing to go; that would just be a waste of application fees to me. If I get an offer at a lower place and waitlisted at upper ones, I'd certainly put off accepting anything until I had worked every angle I could, but in the end, if only one of these departments want me, I will be there.
skinkididoo Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Before applying, I spent a long time researching my long list (12 or so) of potential schools and whittling it down to those with professors doing research that interests me and in a location I could handle for 5 years. That allowed me to spend a lot more time on my fellowship applications. I have a first choice, but I would be pretty happy to go to any of my 3 schools.
Emma2003 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Exactly! Especially given the money and time in these applications. I don't know if these were in response to my post or to the thread in general, but my understanding was that there was NO funding to the one school you got accepted to. There is a school that I applied to who gives funding that I would not attend without funding because it makes no economic sense and is not a top tier school. I would be better of waiting a year then accepting an offer from them with no funding. On the other hand, were I to receive funding from them, it would make them inexpensive enough to consider. In other words, I wouldn't go into debt for them. My top tier school I'd go into debt for.
barry_86404 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I don't know if these were in response to my post or to the thread in general, but my understanding was that there was NO funding to the one school you got accepted to. There is a school that I applied to who gives funding that I would not attend without funding because it makes no economic sense and is not a top tier school. I would be better of waiting a year then accepting an offer from them with no funding. On the other hand, were I to receive funding from them, it would make them inexpensive enough to consider. In other words, I wouldn't go into debt for them. My top tier school I'd go into debt for. Why even waste the money with the application and stuff if you consider them that low. Plus alot of places dont give it to first years since they like to see the individual and decide after getting to know the person
Emma2003 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Why even waste the money with the application and stuff if you consider them that low. Plus alot of places dont give it to first years since they like to see the individual and decide after getting to know the person Because I'm geographically fixed with two kids, a husband and a house and there are only four programs in my area worth applying to. There are a lot of people who are applying to grad school, who need the degree for their field in order to work, but do not have the option of going anywhere in the country they want. I would love to go to Yale, but it is not an option to leave my family behind to do so. One of the reasons I applied to my last choice was because they are known to provide funding. Geographically they are farthest from me, they are one of the most expensive for straight tuition, and given the instability of my field, fine art, the benefit doesn't outweigh the downfall without funding. I don't consider them to be low, I just have responsibilities outside of myself that make it difficult to say yes to an education that would put my family in financial jeopardy. Say you have four cars in front of you, ranging in price from 12,000 to 125,000. Which one you choose, if you have to pay for it, might be very different than which one you would be happy to accept if someone handed you the keys. I would have no hesitation in financing a 12,000 dollar car, but I can't imagine a scenario where I would finance one that costs 125,000. Why should it be any different with my education? I'm making decisions based on my entire circumstance, not just the school's reputation. I have no problem losing the 100 dollars and reapplying next year, in a more informed way than how i did it this time around and opening up the possibility for a better fit, or a better economy. If I didn't apply I never would have the option of getting in WITH funding. I don't consider it a waste of time and/ or money when I can conceive of a scenario in which I would gladly attend their school.
barry_86404 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Because I'm geographically fixed with two kids, a husband and a house and there are only four programs in my area worth applying to. There are a lot of people who are applying to grad school, who need the degree for their field in order to work, but do not have the option of going anywhere in the country they want. I would love to go to Yale, but it is not an option to leave my family behind to do so. One of the reasons I applied to my last choice was because they are known to provide funding. Geographically they are farthest from me, they are one of the most expensive for straight tuition, and given the instability of my field, fine art, the benefit doesn't outweigh the downfall without funding. I don't consider them to be low, I just have responsibilities outside of myself that make it difficult to say yes to an education that would put my family in financial jeopardy. Say you have four cars in front of you, ranging in price from 12,000 to 125,000. Which one you choose, if you have to pay for it, might be very different than which one you would be happy to accept if someone handed you the keys. I would have no hesitation in financing a 12,000 dollar car, but I can't imagine a scenario where I would finance one that costs 125,000. Why should it be any different with my education? I'm making decisions based on my entire circumstance, not just the school's reputation. I have no problem losing the 100 dollars and reapplying next year, in a more informed way than how i did it this time around and opening up the possibility for a better fit, or a better economy. If I didn't apply I never would have the option of getting in WITH funding. I don't consider it a waste of time and/ or money when I can conceive of a scenario in which I would gladly attend their school. Geuss I just dont understand since I would never apply someplace that I wouldnt attend unless i got funded. Especially since in my field they almost never fund the first year which happened to me. I moved cross country to get my masters with no funding because of the status of the school in my field. Luckily I was able to get funded for my second year which helped. And when I was applying, if I applied to a program knowing that I would only go if funded then I would look for a different program I should spend my money and time appling to. But thats just me. As for car scenery, what about taxes and insurance. If I can't afford the 125k car to begin with I really doubt I could afford the insurance for it let alone the registration and taxes. So i would again chose the car I could afford no matter who was paying for it. Geuss I am the only person who sees someone win a car on T.V. and know that most likely they will have to sell the car because they wont be able to afford the 32% tax on the car they won.
Tonights Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Geuss I just dont understand since I would never apply someplace that I wouldnt attend unless i got funded. . I guess you don't understand quite how someone's circumstances could be wildly different from your own. You don't have your field written under your username, so I can't comment on that, but many of us are in fields where it is perfectly common to be funded from the get-go and to turn down offers if they don't come with a package. Unless my first choice accepts me (in which case I'll look into loans) I'll turn down any offers without funding too. I spent my money and time applying to the programs that fit me the best because I can't afford to go ANYWHERE without being funded. I'm not independently wealthy, so that's basically what has to happen.
nandelle Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I guess it depends on the program - if your program doesn't usually offer funding, then yes, it makes sense to only apply to programs that you could afford. However, if you're applying to a program that usually funds grad students, then I think it definitely makes sense to have a school that you would go to if you got funding, but not if you didn't. I feel that way about a couple on my list - that I would be less inclined to go there if there was no funding offer, just because I wouldn't want to put myself in thousands of dollars of debt if I could go to another school for much less (or with funding).
Yellow#5 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I'd be overjoyed to get into my "last choice." I wouldn't have wasted the 100 bucks applying otherwise. Furthermore, I feel like all the programs I applied to had something I like and it's different for each school, so I can't really compare first and last choice anyway.
ridgey Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I don't know if these were in response to my post or to the thread in general, but my understanding was that there was NO funding to the one school you got accepted to. There is a school that I applied to who gives funding that I would not attend without funding because it makes no economic sense and is not a top tier school. I would be better of waiting a year then accepting an offer from them with no funding. On the other hand, were I to receive funding from them, it would make them inexpensive enough to consider. In other words, I wouldn't go into debt for them. My top tier school I'd go into debt for. I won't go unless I get funded. Even my top school (which, like all my applications, is taking its sweet time in getting back to me). that was my position even before reading these threads over at Chronicle: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/t ... 080.0.html http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/t ... 288.0.html Not that I'm in the humanities, but I don't want to take debt of $35k/year in tuition alone for 5 years, as well as living costs. That is enough to buy a house. Onen big reason I'm applying in the US is because funding is usually - at least in my field - tied to admission. Elsewhere, you have to do twice as much work - you have to get admitted, and then you have to track down the $$. And, I've heard it said often that funding (at least at PhD level; it probably works differnetly at Masters level) shows how into you they are. If you're the one inyour incoming class who didn't receive funding, are you also going to be the oen who is less valued by faculty, gets less support and fewer opportunities, etc?
Dubya Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 If you're going to have to pay for a PhD and you have your heart set on it then I recommend going overseas where PhDs are usually only 3 years and tuition is often comparable if not less. If you have decent grades and tell a university flat out that you're willing to pay, you can easily find your way to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, ANU, Melbourne, and so on. I don't think it's ideal, but it can save you some money if it comes down to it...
ridgey Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 If you're going to have to pay for a PhD and you have your heart set on it then I recommend going overseas where PhDs are usually only 3 years and tuition is often comparable if not less. If you have decent grades and tell a university flat out that you're willing to pay, you can easily find your way to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, ANU, Melbourne, and so on. I don't think it's ideal, but it can save you some money if it comes down to it... If you take a squiz even on the results page here, you'll find it's not "easy" to get in at the places you mentioned.There isn't the several hundred applications of a handful of slots, but to even apply you have to be a "better" applicant in these places, in the sense that you have to have a polished thesis proposal.
Emma2003 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I have to say, that I would be very happy to get into my last choice as well. I will be happy to get accepted anywhere. But the reality is that my last choice is no real choice without funding. I don't dislike the school, just can't afford it. I enjoyed the chronicle link, and understand its sentiment, but I don't have any other choice than to do the work that I really know i am meant to do. I am ill-equipped to do anything else! The MFA is the terminal degree in my field at this point, and it is the best start I can get for any sort of career. But if I have to pay over 100,000 in loans, and pay 36,000 in childcare for the time I am in school, I cannot justify it. I figure it would knock my salary down by about 10,000 a year. I'm thirty-five, when I'm done I'll be thirty-nine and It will only be about ten years until my oldest starts applying to colleges. In my mind neither the top tier school, nor my fourth choice are the best choices for me. My first choice offers funding and tuition waiver to all accepted students, has an excellent academic standing and is blocks away from my home. I think, given the mid-range status of the school in my field, and my own pretty excellent qualifications :wink: , I have a pretty decent chance of getting in there. So, i hope the choice is moot. However, I see no reason why intelligent others can't disagree with me. And... if I get the funding and they are the only choice, I'll happily go and no one but all of you will ever know they were my last choice.
barry_86404 Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 I guess you don't understand quite how someone's circumstances could be wildly different from your own. You don't have your field written under your username, so I can't comment on that, but many of us are in fields where it is perfectly common to be funded from the get-go and to turn down offers if they don't come with a package. Unless my first choice accepts me (in which case I'll look into loans) I'll turn down any offers without funding too. I spent my money and time applying to the programs that fit me the best because I can't afford to go ANYWHERE without being funded. I'm not independently wealthy, so that's basically what has to happen. Theres always options. I worked 30 hours a week during my undergrad to graduate with no debt from undergrad. Then I work just as hard the past year and half. Plus I know people who weren't funded and found their own funding through other departments at their school of choice since just because your department doesn't offer it doesnt mean you can't get it through other departments at your school of choice.
ridgey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Theres always options. I worked 30 hours a week during my undergrad to graduate with no debt from undergrad. Then I work just as hard the past year and half. Plus I know people who weren't funded and found their own funding through other departments at their school of choice since just because your department doesn't offer it doesnt mean you can't get it through other departments at your school of choice. Well, if that's your experience/reality and that of your friends, it MUST be true for everyone else in every circumstance. It's a nice saying "Theres [sic] always options" but in the real world that simply isn't true.
Tonights Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Theres always options. I worked 30 hours a week during my undergrad to graduate with no debt from undergrad. Then I work just as hard the past year and half. Plus I know people who weren't funded and found their own funding through other departments at their school of choice since just because your department doesn't offer it doesnt mean you can't get it through other departments at your school of choice. Yup, your experience equals everyone else's experiences. Have fun in grad school.
Dinali Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Theres always options. I worked 30 hours a week during my undergrad to graduate with no debt from undergrad. Then I work just as hard the past year and half. I'd say you were quite lucky to have gone to an inexpensive school. I worked ~30 per week as an undergrad and it covered about half my expenses, and the school I went too wasn't particularly costly. I'm still paying off the other half. Adding to that the far greater costs of grad school is not an option, simply because, given the low average starting salary of a humanities professor, at some level of debt it becomes mathemetically impossible to pay it off. Hence funding is more common in humanities.
ridgey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I'd say you were quite lucky to have gone to an inexpensive school. I worked ~30 per week as an undergrad and it covered about half my expenses, and the school I went too wasn't particularly costly. I'm still paying off the other half. Adding to that the far greater costs of grad school is not an option, simply because, given the low average starting salary of a humanities professor, at some level of debt it becomes mathemetically impossible to pay it off. Hence funding is more common in humanities. Hey that wasn't me!!!!
Dinali Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hey that wasn't me!!!! Oops, sorry Ridgey. I cut the wrong quote. Fixed now.
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