Please help my friend with advice (he's a reluctant physics major)

[JosephClarkGrew]

OK I know this forum is technically for graduates but I didn't know where else to go.

My friend (and this isn't actually about me, it really is about a friend of mine who is for some reason scared to death of Internet forums) didn't know what to do with his life after high school.

He went to community college for two years and got an associate's degree in liberal arts. At that point, he decided he wanted to be a music major (classical acoustic guitar) and he spent two years getting his associates in music.

After that, he tried getting into several music schools but was denied. As his time in music school was winding down, he discovered through watching The Universe and reading many books on physics and science as a whole that he had an interest in the "hard" sciences.

His main interest was in physics but he says that he's somewhat intimidated by the mathematics and higher-level concepts involved (the stuff that's nearly impossible for laypeople to understand).

Yet, without a career and with two useless degrees, he simply has to go back to school for a "good" major. He wants to choose physics but is unsure of what to do.

He doesn't want to go deep in debt so he'd have to go locally, but the local state schools (we live in NY) aren't really anything special.

So what should he do. He wanted to know what physics graduate students had to say about it. Are there any particular universities he should go to? I told him to go take a couple of physics classes at the local community college to see if you could get an understanding for the work.

I also told him maybe chemistry would be good for him (he refuses bio) because it has math, yes, but is not as complicated as physics (as far as my limited knowledge of both subjects goes).

Anyway. Thank you all for your time.

[TakeruK]

I know a lot of students who did the first two years of their BS degree at a local college (i.e. associate degrees) and then transferred to a University to complete their degree. Most people will end up doing 3 years at the University -- sometimes the college does not offer all the required lower level courses, especially if you want an honours BS. Some of these students are currently in grad school now.

However, this would decrease the student's chances of getting research positions, as they seem to favour those who started in University in the first place. So it would be a good idea to apply for co-op work programs if available (and if research work is part of the co-op work).

With all that said though, I don't think a Physics BS is guaranteed to get you a good job. I'm not convinced that a Physics BS is any less "useless" than associates in liberal arts and music, other than the fact that a Bachelor's represents more work than an associate's (but 2 associates = same time as a BS). I think all BS degrees are pretty much equally valued: people hire BS graduates because they have scientific reasoning, data analysis and critical thinking ability, not because of their major. BA graduates are valued for the ability to conduct research, critical thinking, and communicate effectively. So, a Bachelor's degree in anything is, more or less, equal value in the work force I think.

I'd encourage your friend to definitely think about whether or not it's actually worth it to pursue a BS though. If it's simply for better career options, I'd personally advise your friend to give this a lot of thought. He/she may end up much further ahead in life if they work for the next 4-5 years and gained valuable work experience instead of debt. A Physics BS may put your friend in the same situation as he/she is in now, but with additional debt and yet another 4-5 years of work experience behind their peers/competitors.

But if your friend has thought about this and realised that Physics/science is truly the only career he/she wants to do because he/she will be unhappy otherwise, then go for it.

So I don't want to discourage anyone from studying science/Physics but I just want to present some realities. Of course, your friend may have much different goals so I can't really say what's best for them. Personally, if I had already spent ~4 years in University/college, I would not want to go back and start all over again. There are other priorities in life, for me, so I don't want to devote all my energy/youth into school/career.

What about finishing off the liberal arts associate's degree to get a full BA? Then some career options may also open up. I guess it also wouldn't be too much of a risk to start a physics program at a local college to see how your friend feels about Physics -- but keep in mind that upper level physics, and especially graduate level physics is very different from lower level physics courses. This is especially true because many first year physics courses are taught to fulfill the physics/science requirements of other majors, not taught in a way intended for physics majors! So if there is an option between taking a physics course for physics majors, go for it. If your friend will take a calculus course first, then go for the calculus-based physics course if possible.

[R Deckard]

He doesn't want to go deep in debt so he'd have to go locally, but the local state schools (we live in NY) aren't really anything special.

Stony Brook is very good.

http://www.physics.sunysb.edu/Physics/

[emmm]

Any "hard science" will require some basic math prerequisites. Your friend can take these at a local CC for not too much money (relatively speaking). If he can't handle these classes, any one of the hard sciences is probably not going to work out.

[SeriousSillyPutty]

I might be like your friend in that the parts of physics I like are the big picture how-cool-is-this-universe stuff and the tangible wow-I-see-physics-everywhere stuff. I did a physics undergrad and truly treasure it, but if I'm honest, I didn't actually like the classes toward the end... I loved elementary calculus, but differential equations never clicked for me, so I did well in the classes but didn't delight in them.

Like TakeruK said, a B.S. in physics doesn't do much for you. (In my experience.) Your options are to go to graduate school, teach, or work at McDonald's (or someplace else that has nothing to do with physics).

I went into education and absolutely love it (I was planning it before I graduated, not because I couldn't find anything else) but that's not something you want to do just because you can't find something better.

I have a friend who got a B.A. in physics (still a lot of math, but not quite as much) and also got a communications degree. After a short internship, she landed a job at CERN doing the press releases and such, writing about all the cool stuff that ends up on The Universe and such without dealing so much with the technicalities.

Maybe for your friend, a degree in science writing, with a focus on physics, would be more practical?