US or Europe for Ph.D. in Engineering

[bluebook]

Hi. I am interested in doing Ph.D. in Engineering. I am from Europe, so I am debating between Swiss schools like EPFL (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology at Lausanne) and ETHZ (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology at Zurich.) At the same time, I was suggested to try US engineering graduate schools. What are comparable levels of EPFL/ETHZ to US schools? I am studying in the field of Material Science and Engineering.

Edited March 11, 2012 by bluebook

[verdalantreas]

A thing to consider is also where you want to work afterwards. As it is generally not a bad idea to build your network on the continent where you'd want to work.

[Duna]

A thing to consider is also where you want to work afterwards. As it is generally not a bad idea to build your network on the continent where you'd want to work.

True, but it is also true (at least for many disciplines, jobs and areas) that having experience abroad and having a network on a different continent are great advantages...

For many people I know their time abroad (either as post-docs or PhDs) has made a positive impact on their careers.

@ bluebook: Are you Swiss or do you want to go to Switzerland because they have great universities?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Saviya

[intirb]

It also depends very much on whether you'd rather go into academia or industry. It's very easy to get a European(/American) postdoc position with an American(/European) PhD, but it's generally much more difficult to break into a distant industry.

Another thing to consider - are you prepared for the very involved process of applying to US graduate schools? This process is much more difficult than applying in Europe - you'll have to study for/take the GRE and possibly the TOEFL, fill out a bunch of forms (and pay for them!), etc. It's a lot of work.

As for which universities in the US to choose, it depends on where you went to school as an undergraduate, how good your grades are, how much research you've done, etc. Your professors in Europe should be able to give you a good idea of how competitive you are, and maybe if any of your classmates have applied to the US you can look and see how they did. International students have a much harder time getting into US universities because getting funding is more difficult. It's possible your home country has some kind of fellowship to support your studies abroad - that will help a great deal.

Good luck!

[bluebook]

@intirb--I don't mind about the GRE/TOEFL/etc.

@Saviya--I want the best graduate education (= best research). I am interested in the Swiss universities because they are one of the best. But I am wondering whether they are as good as US schools? What are comparable schools from the ranking etc.

[Hiyou]

In my point of view, EPFL or ETH are completely comparable with high rank universities in USA but they are located in europe. I mean If you are asian, and you want to stay in a country after your studies, Switzerland is not a good place. Not only Switzerland, but also other european countries have the same problem. In Europe foreigners remain foreigners for ever

[Duna]

@ Hiyou:

I happen to know Chinese and Korean people who are not only living in Germany but are also part of my family and I can definitely provide you with more than one exception to your very generalized statement about all Europe (which really made me laugh because Europe is pretty diverse with all of its different cultures and nations...)

What I liked most about your comment was that you're actually trying to tell a European to stay out of Europe because he will feel like an outcast.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Saviya

[intirb]

this should give you a rough idea of how ETHZ and EPFL compare internationally:

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/best-universities-metallurgy-and-materials

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/engineering-and-IT.html

good luck!

[Germany2012]

While the prestigious US universities are a league of their own, also in Germany studies and research are done on a highly competitive level. It often takes place in non-university public research institutions and is not represented much, or at all, in the Shanghai Ranking and such. Also, the ratio of Nobel Prize winners is a bit lower, but given.

Here some local institutes which you have probably never have heard of. The living quality in Dresden between Prague and Berlin is very high, in terms of higher culture, diversity of city quarters, villa apartment pricing and landscapes as Saxon Switzerland or smaller vineyards. More known for its small old-town center the city also has a lot of upscale living quarters with reasonable or affordable living costs, the city area is rather large but has a good tram network, there is no subway.

http://www.ifw-dresden.de (solid state and materials research)

Center for Advancing Electronics at TU Dresden university and connected non-university institutes which publish with their own name (Fraunhofer, Helmholtz)

Reconfigurable Nanowire Electronics

Nanowire Biosensor Devices

Modeling and Design of Carbon-Based Transistors

Carbon-Based Circuit Technology

DNA Chemistry

Chemical Information Processing Systems

Heterogeneous System-Software Verifications

Microkernel-Based Systems Architecture for Heterogeneous Systems

Orchestration of Resilience Mechanisms

Bio-Inspired Information Processing

Organic Devices, Organic Materials, Processor Design, Compiler Construction and Adaptive Networks

bioengineering, bioinformatics, biophysics:

Dresden's Max Planck Research School for Cell, Developmental and Systems Biology

http://www.imprs-mcbb.de

Dresden is Europe's hotspot of micro-electronics, the cluster is even larger than that near Grenoble, France.

[Usmivka]

On 3/12/2012 at 7:04 PM, bluebook said:

@intirb--I don't mind about the GRE/TOEFL/etc.

@Saviya--I want the best graduate education (= best research). I am interested in the Swiss universities because they are one of the best. But I am wondering whether they are as good as US schools? What are comparable schools from the ranking etc.

MIT and ETZH are very comparable. Several faculty split time between these two institutions. That said, MIT is difficult to gain admission to. Caltech is of similar standing, but in Pasadena, which is not everyone's favorite climate--it has the advatage of being attached to NASA's JPL however.

The University of Washington is well regarded in the field and high international recognition if you are planning to return abroad.

There are several great California state schools, like UCLA, but they are experiencing severe financial distress which may translate into more restrictive admissions and funding.

USC (southern california, not south carolina) is particularly well known in Asia and the Pacific, but is less appreciated in the US overall--it has a reputation from decades past as a party school for rich kids, but the graduate programs are really top notch and they are about 50% international students. It has well known engineering programs and and an very strong alumni network for job placements if you want to go into industry in the US.

Washington University in St. Louis (WashU) has similar materials science program to ETH Zurich, but has the disadvantage of being in St Louis, which can be culture shock for Europeans. It does provide plenty of research opportunities and a generous funding package to pursue research though with great professors.

Texas A & M has a number of great engineering programs, but I don't specifically know about materials science, and not everyone enjoys Texas.

*I'd more or less ignore the rankings, except as far as very generally pointing you towards some names you may not have heard of. They tend to do a poor job reflecting the quality of research and publications and standing within the field, and underrank or ignore some of the field leaders while elevating some humdrum contenders. I don't have the links anymore, but take a look through the forums, there are several discussions about this. Besides, who your adviser is and what research you are doing is always much more important than a departments "rank."

**If you want to work in the US, US universities are better known and generally better regarded for industry, and often for academia. That said, materials science and engineering may have it's own quirks that I am not aware of.