SIPA vs. SAIS

[kayoko.ly]

I was just accepted to SIPA and SAIS - Bologna; SIPA gave me no funding and SAIS gave me a $30K fellowship award. I am very torn because my heart was set on going to SIPA but it is hard to pass up the financial aid.

I plan to study international development, with a focus on finance. I feel as though SIPA is the better program and location for this, but uncertain as to the difference in reputation amongst the two, especially considering I was accepted into the Bologna program as SAIS....not sure if this is less prestigious or competitive?

Does anyone have thoughts or recommendations to help me in my decision?

Thank you!

[jct329]

As far as brand name goes, even if it's not *the best school* for a particular program, SAIS is still the most prestigious. Your opportunities with SAIS will be just as good as they would be at SIPA (if not better), while taking on less debt (in a field that doesn't make much money). The amount of debt you will take on living in Manhattan (unless you want a lengthy and tiring commute) will be enormous. I am uncertain as to the prestige/reputation/actual academic experience of the Bologna program relative to SAIS DC or SIPA.

I guess I'm saying that I would definitely take SAIS if I were you, but I fully understand your predicament (which, let's face it, is a pretty good predicament to have!)

[kayoko.ly]

jct329 -- Thanks for your quick response. I agree it is a great predicament to have and frankly feel silly for even being stressed about having two great options

Appreciate your input - the majority of my experience is in the financial industry so I am not as well versed as to the international development community's view of the prestige of the two programs. I think I also need to reflect on specifically what type of role I would like to have after graduating as it will influence my decision in terms of job market and industry...

Thanks!

[piquant777]

SAIS is well-regarded as the most econ and quant rigorous IR program. If your interest is finance it def would suit you well with the mandatory econ concentration. SIPA has a mixed reputation but even if you call them equal $30k beats 0 any day of the week.

[cckrspnl56]

It's important to consider that the Bologna campus has a considerably different course selection. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two IDev courses and two econ courses that count towards the finance specialization that were offered this year.

That being said (and I'm not particularly familiar with the IDev reqs) Bologna will certainly offer the standard required courses for the degree (Micro, Macro, Trade, Monetary, all four core classes), as well as regional economic courses for Asia and Africa.

I felt like a few students this year were shocked and dismayed about the course selection; it seemed as if they were confused that a school in the middle of Italy would have a slant towards European Studies.

[Helpplease123]

In terms of brand name alone (putting any kind of program quality debates aside), Columbia is far more well known and well regarded in Europe and I imagine the rest of the world (excluding the US where I imagine John Hopkins is equally known)...so, I suppose it depends where you want to work after graduating?

[jct329]

In terms of brand name alone (putting any kind of program quality debates aside), Columbia is far more well known and well regarded in Europe and I imagine the rest of the world (excluding the US where I imagine John Hopkins is equally known)...so, I suppose it depends where you want to work after graduating?

As far as layman prestige, Columbia is FAR superior to Johns Hopkins. Most people who don't live on the East Coast barely know what JHU is (unless they are involved in the medical or IR fields, or have some other reason to be highly knowledgable about universities). That really shouldn't matter. The only thing that matters is the prestige of the program among future employers. SAIS is probably a little more highly regarded (though the difference may be negligible).

[Helpplease123]

As far as layman prestige, Columbia is FAR superior to Johns Hopkins. Most people who don't live on the East Coast barely know what JHU is (unless they are involved in the medical or IR fields, or have some other reason to be highly knowledgable about universities). That really shouldn't matter. The only thing that matters is the prestige of the program among future employers. SAIS is probably a little more highly regarded (though the difference may be negligible).

I'm not sure how strictly true that is, for example, I went to the highest ranked University in England for my undergraduate degree field (unrelated to public admin/policy/ir) but I would be far more set up for any job in any field, particularly abroad, had I gone to Oxford or Cambridge. I believe that outside of the country in which the school is in, lay prestige can be just as important as how the school is viewed in that field. Also because there are variations in the admissions difficulty or students attending or quality of classes taken outside of your school e.g. working with some of the professors at Columbia business school you're getting access to a whole new, incredibly valuable network...It's probably a personal thing too, going to a generally well known and well regarded school would definitely matter to me but other people would view it as far less important.

[rose1]

While lay prestige can be important, and SIPA might beat SAIS in that regard, I think the connections you make while in school are at least as important, and I'd pick SAIS over SIPA any day when it comes to a close knit community and supportive alumni network.

[hudwa]

While lay prestige can be important, and SIPA might beat SAIS in that regard, I think the connections you make while in school are at least as important, and I'd pick SAIS over SIPA any day when it comes to a close knit community and supportive alumni network.

I feel that access to the greater Columbia University alumni network gives SIPA the upper hand in that regard. In particular the international reach of alumni of various Columbia professional schools. Apart from SAIS and perhaps JHU's med school, I've heard from Hopkins grads that while Hopkins is well-respected on the East Coast, alumni are few and far between even in places as close as New York. But alumni of Columbia College and other professional schools at Columbia are important to me because I'm looking to leave the US and go into the private sector, and diversity of connections always helps. On the other hand, if you're focusing on NGO and public sector work, specifically working for the federal government in DC, SAIS is probably the better bet.

[erry3779]

I have the same problem.. Sais gave me 15k for free.. Sipa nothing... But i really want both!!! Please help me justify just one

[Learn619]

I have the same problem.. Sais gave me 15k for free.. Sipa nothing... But i really want both!!! Please help me justify just one

What is your intended field of concentration? That is an important factor here.

[erry3779]

What is your intended field of concentration? That is an important factor here.

I want to comcentrate on int'l economic.. No doube about SAIS, but i applied to SIPA's Int'l Finance and Economic Policy which turned out to have interesting courses as well (comparable to SAIS) ... So yeah, from the field of concentrarion point of view, its pretty even for both.

[kayoko.ly]

erry3779 - I am in the same boat. Applied to Int'l Finance program at SIPA. Seems they have a better course selection and from a finance aspect it seems NYC is the place to be....that said, I did hear a good piece of advice from IR alums that what matters most are the connections you make with classmates/professors as well as the experiences you have while at the program. It seems everyone has differences in opinion on how the two compare in terms of prestige, but at the end of the day they are both great schools and you can't go wrong either way. So I guess, for me, I am going to try really think about what I want to do and where I want to work afterwards, then look at the course selection, professors and their line of work, student body characteristics, opportunities while in school, etc. to make my ultimate decision.

I still am VERY torn though.... and SAIS did confirm if you maintain a certain GPA your first year, you will receive the same fellowship award during your 2nd year, which is very tempting...

[erry3779]

kayoko.ly, yeah.,you are right!

I am currently a diplomat for the indonesia's MoFA.. My ultimate goal is of course not the private sector, but maybe int'l organizations... Yes WB and IMF are in DC, but UN is in NY. Talking about student body and getting to know our classmates and professors, this forum seems to belie e that SAIS is more personal on that context compared to SIPA. But i really want to live in NY!

One more thing about SAIs finaid, yes, 15k is pretty big, but since I am enrolling on a fellowship already, i still dont knwo whether that 15k will be for me or will lighten up the burden for the institution tha awarded me the fellowship. And i am still waiting on International Fellow Program result from SIPA..

Oh men.. I really cant choose at this moment

[kayoko.ly]

Sounds like we are thinking about the exact same things. I realized a lot of the reasons I was so set on SIPA originally was because of the allure of NYC along with the name brand recognition that comes with attending an Ivy League. Plus I really love their campus compared to SAIS' few buildings in DC and overall lack of a unified campus feeling. When I stepped back, I realized NYC will always be there if I want to go and these are superficial reasons for wanting to attend SIPA. Really, my decision should be made based on what I want to do after (which I have similar vague ambitions as you, which makes this even harder )

Just to further share some of my thoughts, I was originally very unimpressed with the accessibility and responsiveness of SAIS during the application period, where as SIPA was very impressive. However, since decisions have come out, SAIS has blown me away. I have already received an email and scheduled a time to talk to a 2nd year student and someone from admissions called me twice and had a 40 minute conversation with me to answer all my questions. It was a very personalized conversation and she knew my background and gave a very personalized explanation as to why I was admitted to Bologna for my first year. Granted some of this is just them selling the school to you, but I think it really reflects well on the level of attention you get at a smaller program (something I never really weighted heavily in my decision) but I was very impressed and realized how nice it is to have that.

[erry3779]

Wow we really are in the same boat..

I also have some thoughts that whenever i need NY its just 3 hours away..

Maybe i should call them also.. And told SAIS that i need help in justifying why my heart is somehow leaning for SAIS

[hudwa]

It was a very personalized conversation and she knew my background and gave a very personalized explanation as to why I was admitted to Bologna for my first year.

kayoko.ly, if you feel comfortable doing so, could you expand a bit upon the reasons why you were admitted to Bologna for your first year? I know some others who were admitted to Bologna for their first year without applying to that campus and are a bit puzzled as to why that is. In particular, I know one person through this forum who was admitted to Bologna in spite of requesting a Japan Studies concentration. He cannot pursue the Japan Studies concentration at Bologna, but what really confounds me is that I have heard from faculty and people close to SAIS that they are desperate for Japan Studies candidates. I just find it weird that they want to cart people off to Bologna who didn't ask to be there. For me, that would be a dealbreaker; one of SAIS's main advantages is that it is in DC, across the street from the world's leading policy think tank, and a 10 minute walk to the World Bank, IMF, Embassy Row and many other leading think tanks. Even if I weren't banking on Japan Studies (I was waitlisted, so I ask more out of curiosity than personal need) I would still turn down an offer to spend one year in Italy away from DC just so I could spend my second year in the place and at the program I really wanted to be in.

[kayoko.ly]

Of course. I was definitely confused as well and uncertain as to whether Bologna was just where the people who weren't good enough to get into DC went! But after speaking with admissions they informed me that given my background and minimal experience living abroad (I studied on Semester at Sea during college and then lived in Latin America for 3 months) they thought Bologna was a good idea to build my international network and gain more experience living outside of America. This was one of my biggest weaknesses in my application and I was definitely worried my lack of international experience would lead to rejection from a lot of these programs, so it was nice to hear they did notice this on my application but provided me an option to build my resume/experiences instead of declining me.

Also, I did say on my application, I was willing to do the Bologna program, it just was my 2nd choice after DC for 2 years, so it was not like they just gave me an option I did not sign up for. That said, I was accepted to IDEV and do not have a regional concentration. The whole Japan Studies thing does seem very odd....I would suggest that person reach out to admissions to find out the logic behind that...

And who knows, maybe this is just the pitch they give to Bologna candidates Even if it is, I still felt as though the woman I spoke with in admissions had really taken the time (at least before our phone conversation) to review my background, essays, experiences, etc. in order to have a personalized conversation about my next steps.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any other questions, I by no means have the answers, but have been speaking with a lot of people recently to try to help me make my decision.

[charlotte_asia]

A friend of mine who went to SAIS did the Bologna program and seriously raved about it. She was a top, top candidate with full rides to other programs and chose to do SAIS Bologna, even though it meant taking out loans to do so, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I don't know much about the program substantively, in terms of curriculum or pros/cons, but all I hear from her is how incredible her experience was there, living in Bologna, becoming extremely close with her Bologna cohort, faculty, international exposure, etc. From what I unerstand it's a second-rate location in the least.

[erry3779]

So I finally decided to list all the things that confuses me in making the decision between SIPA and SAIS. Please give me insights and more elaborate informations. I don't even know which ones are assumptions and which ones are fact. This is based on my simple browsing research and my own assumptions.

I am now with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which means there is pretty big chance I will stay in this career path, but actually my ultimate dream is with the WTO or other international organizations (UN, World Bank, IMF). I am very much interested in international trade and finance (my SIPA MIA is on International Finance and Economic Policy).

I'm trying to compare both schools and its programs based on these criteria:

1. Program Curriculum
   
   • SAIS: No doubt on the Int'l Econ concentration, while the Int'l Law and Organizations concentration is really appealing to me since I would really love to master the int'l trade law (dealing with the WTO). Is it possible to pursue all courses in law only on economics?
     
   • SIPA: the curriculum for Int'l Finance and Econ Policy is very good and flexible since I can pick up courses from other schools like Law and Business, but I will not have Int'l Law on my degree.
     

[*]Faculty Member

• SAIS: Of all the faculty member listed on the website I only recognized Anne Krueger (of course this is my fault, not that the other faculty members are not noteworthy)
  
• SIPA: SIPA has great names from Stiglitz (finance and SWF), Bhagwati (trade), Clarida (monetary), Sachs (development). But somehow these names are too big, which mean they won't be around that much, but at least they have some seminars set and working hours at SIPA.
  
• Alumni
  
  • Both schools are actually on an equal footing for me (perhaps you can be more elaborate on this).
    
  • Student Body/Networking Opportunity
    
    • SAIS: Small and close-knitted, bigger chance to really build the foundation for future networking.
      
    • SIPA: Pretty big and with the busy life of the whole Columbia Campus (not to mention the city), might be a little bit difficult to build wide networking. But the proportion of international students and US students in SIPA is much more balanced than SAIS.
      
    • Internship Opportunity
      
      • SAIS: Internship are not listed on the degree requirement. I really need more insights on this, is it possible for an international student to do an internship?
        
      • SIPA: It is listed on the degree requirement, and a UN internship is considered putting one foot in the door already for a future UN career.
        

      [*]Location

      [*]SAIS: DC is somehow comfortable, I have lived in Geneva for my internship and I thought if I can have fun in Geneva then I can have fun in any other city in the world. World Bank, IMF, Brookings Institute, Peterson Institute, etc are well within reach from SAIS.

      [*]SIPA: NYC is NYC. Also the UN is there

      [*]Name of the School and University

      [*]SAIS: It is unquestionable that SAIS is somehow perceived as a better school in IR. But the Johns Hopkins itself doesn't do quite well internationally.

      [*]SIPA: SIPA is also on the top 10 list for IR schools, supported by the big Columbia name which is already well known internationally.

      and a question: I'm of the opinion that US students favor SAIS over SIPA, is this also applies to international students? And also, does DC location is benefitting only for US/domestic students or is it equally good for international students?

Edited March 19, 2012 by erry3779

[IRToni]

erry:

Sorry, but many of your questions can be answered by looking at the school's website.

1. WRT to law at SAIS: Look at the law department, see how many courses they offer that would be interesting to you. You usually have to take 6 courses in your specialization.

4. It's 50% compared to 35%, not that big of a difference. I'd also say that SAIS offers an awesome counselling and career program for international students (again, the website).

5. SAIS addresses this on their website, both for international students and in general terms. Bottom line, getting an internship for internationals is possible and very much encouraged. It's not a requirement, but I feel that's just the case because SAIS doesn't want to limit us. People who have extensive work experience, but want to pursue language courses in the summer, can do that.

7. SAIS does have the overall better name for IR, but for what you want to do Columbia might actually be the better program.

I also get the feeling from the questions you ask that you want to go to SIPA, but are a little afraid of turning down the better-ranked program. But let's face it, all these schools ranked among the first 10 are awesome schools. They will have different strenghs and weaknesses each, but just because one school is perceived as the "better program" doesn't make it the better program for you.

Hop that helps.

[erry3779]

erry:

Sorry, but many of your questions can be answered by looking at the school's website.

1. WRT to law at SAIS: Look at the law department, see how many courses they offer that would be interesting to you. You usually have to take 6 courses in your specialization.

4. It's 50% compared to 35%, not that big of a difference. I'd also say that SAIS offers an awesome counselling and career program for international students (again, the website).

5. SAIS addresses this on their website, both for international students and in general terms. Bottom line, getting an internship for internationals is possible and very much encouraged. It's not a requirement, but I feel that's just the case because SAIS doesn't want to limit us. People who have extensive work experience, but want to pursue language courses in the summer, can do that.

7. SAIS does have the overall better name for IR, but for what you want to do Columbia might actually be the better program.

I also get the feeling from the questions you ask that you want to go to SIPA, but are a little afraid of turning down the better-ranked program. But let's face it, all these schools ranked among the first 10 are awesome schools. They will have different strenghs and weaknesses each, but just because one school is perceived as the "better program" doesn't make it the better program for you.

Hop that helps.

Thank you very much.. that does help.. The day before yesterday I was leaning on SIPA, yesterday I was so set up on SAIS, and today I'm back to SIPA!

Maybe i should just forget about this whole decision making things for a day and two and might get an inspiration out of nowhere...

[innovate]

I have to say that I don´t see the drawback of spending a year in Italy and then your second year in DC with SAIS. I too am in a similar position, having received substantial scholarships to attend both SAIS (Bologna, which I chose in my application) and SIPA. I agree with CharlotteAsia that there is nothing less prestigious about doing the Bologna program at SAIS. Indeed, what employer wouldn´t look at a year studying abroad at the top international affairs grad school in the country as something to be valued? Moreover, you would be taking many of the same classes in DC as you do in Bologna--that is, the core classes that are required for the international economics specialization. The think tanks and other orgs in DC will still be there when you get there for your second year. You could even get an internship in DC for your first summer if you desire.

Maybe It´s because I´m American and really value the opportunity to study/live abroad whenever possible (especially in Italy!), but JHU SAIS in Bologna seems like a no brainer over SIPA, even more so if they are giving you $30k vs. nothing at Columbia!!!

[rose1]

From what I've heard, it seems like the Bologna program is an advantage. It seems like the Bologna cohort is always super close when they come back to DC. I've barely heard anything good about SIPA since I applied, and will be declining today. SAIS is looking better and better. i wrote on the SAIS thread about my talk with a current student yesterday and how she totally sold me on the program.