Rejected everywhere... save for my state school, + BIG funding package

[Supernovasky]

Alright guys,

I have been rejected across the board. Everyone turned me down... but my state school, it would appear, is going to offer me a huge funding package for my PhD. This school is NOT top 50 in Sociology. They're pretty average in terms of prestige, we're not talking about an R1 research university. However, my potential adviser is a publication BEAST. He's put out more papers in the past few years than most professors I have seen at the high ranked socio schools.

The thing is, I would like to know what challenges I might face, and if this decision is worth it. I could out another year, but honestly, I don't see myself being any more competitive next year than I am this year. This may be my only shot. I want to become a professor, I really, really want to teach... I have undergraduate research experience in education and have taught classes before to freshman as an undergraduate senior! This is truly my dream.

The thing is, I DONT want to stay in my home state after I am done. If I teach, I want to be able to move somewhere else. I just don't really like it much around here. Still, the prospect for a FULLY FUNDED PhD is HUGE for me. Like I said, what will my biggest challenges be? Any big rewards? What will be my major limitations going to a not-highly-ranked school? Will I be able to achieve my dream of becoming a professor?

Please advise...

[sciencegirl]

Quick question - if teaching is really important to you, what is the placement record of the department? If they haven't placed any one into a TT teaching job that you would be happy with, then thats something to think about..

Edited March 22, 2012 by sciencegirl

[Supernovasky]

Good call. Actually looks like they place MANY into teaching positions, virtually 95% of them, but in universities of similar or lesser stature, and also in universities that are far more regional to this school than national.

[sociologo]

If you want to go into teaching rather than research, then that might not be such a bad thing. The key is to know what kind of setting you want to teach in.

[Chuck]

Congrats, Supernova! From what you've said about your goals, this seems like a great opportunity. I will echo what everyone else here has said by way of encouragement. You're in! You've been accepted to a PhD program, major congrats to you!

As far as the potential downsides of attending this program, I don't think there are many. You seem to be very excited about starting grad school in the fall. Throughout this process, you've shown yourself to be motivated and thoughtful. So what if maybe this program won't prepare you to get a research job at an R1? That's not what you were aiming for from the get-go. It is OK that not everyone on these boards has the same goals. I do think it's important that you visit the program and spend a lot of time with both faculty and current students. Job placement stats are going to be very important. Particularly the recent placement record of your PI's students. Whether you have a synergy of research interests and working styles with potential advisor(s) is going to be extremely important.

Also keep in mind that if this school is a place where you could see yourself writing an absolute bang-up MA thesis, you stand a pretty good chance of being able to transfer somewhere "better" after a few years, where better here means better for you. This option will only be available to you if you work extra hard and play your cards right, but it does happen a lot more often than you might think. Still, don't bank on it. And especially don't bank on it if you don't see this school as a place where you can be happy and successful academically right off the bat. You don't want to be starting out in an uphill battle against a department that is making you miserable. If, after you've visited and sat on the decision for a few weeks, you find yourself unenthusiastic about this school, my advice is that no good can come through you trying to 'tough it out.' As deflating as it may seem right now, you've learned so much through the application process and there is always next year. But this does sound like a potentially great opportunity. Be honest with yourself and you can't do too bad!

Congrats again! And take some time to celebrate!

[sciencegirl]

I would second @chuck - and then add that you should try to contact the recent graduates from the program in a friendly manner for advice. The ones who have jobs that you would love to have should be able to give you stellar advice -- who to work with, etc -- that will help you get to you goals.

[lovenhaight]

Alright guys,

I have been rejected across the board. Everyone turned me down... but my state school, it would appear, is going to offer me a huge funding package for my PhD. This school is NOT top 50 in Sociology. They're pretty average in terms of prestige, we're not talking about an R1 research university. However, my potential adviser is a publication BEAST. He's put out more papers in the past few years than most professors I have seen at the high ranked socio schools.

The thing is, I would like to know what challenges I might face, and if this decision is worth it. I could out another year, but honestly, I don't see myself being any more competitive next year than I am this year. This may be my only shot. I want to become a professor, I really, really want to teach... I have undergraduate research experience in education and have taught classes before to freshman as an undergraduate senior! This is truly my dream.

The thing is, I DONT want to stay in my home state after I am done. If I teach, I want to be able to move somewhere else. I just don't really like it much around here. Still, the prospect for a FULLY FUNDED PhD is HUGE for me. Like I said, what will my biggest challenges be? Any big rewards? What will be my major limitations going to a not-highly-ranked school? Will I be able to achieve my dream of becoming a professor?

Please advise...

Alright guys,

I have been rejected across the board. Everyone turned me down... but my state school, it would appear, is going to offer me a huge funding package for my PhD. This school is NOT top 50 in Sociology. They're pretty average in terms of prestige, we're not talking about an R1 research university. However, my potential adviser is a publication BEAST. He's put out more papers in the past few years than most professors I have seen at the high ranked socio schools.

The thing is, I would like to know what challenges I might face, and if this decision is worth it. I could out another year, but honestly, I don't see myself being any more competitive next year than I am this year. This may be my only shot. I want to become a professor, I really, really want to teach... I have undergraduate research experience in education and have taught classes before to freshman as an undergraduate senior! This is truly my dream.

The thing is, I DONT want to stay in my home state after I am done. If I teach, I want to be able to move somewhere else. I just don't really like it much around here. Still, the prospect for a FULLY FUNDED PhD is HUGE for me. Like I said, what will my biggest challenges be? Any big rewards? What will be my major limitations going to a not-highly-ranked school? Will I be able to achieve my dream of becoming a professor?

Please advise...

If I remember correctly, your big state school is LSU, right? One of my profs here is an LSU grad, and she really enjoyed her time there. I also wouldn't worry about being stuck in your home state after graduation...it is very rare indeed that PhD graduates end up working in the same location as their alma mater.

Congratulations!!!!

[jacib]

If you want to go into teaching rather than research, then that might not be such a bad thing. The key is to know what kind of setting you want to teach in.

I would like to say that unless you work at a think tank, advocacy group, or a professional organization, everyone has to teach and research. Teaching and research are not antipodes. The teaching load (which can be as low as two courses a semester and as high as five) and the research expections for tenure vary, but you still must do both at any school. Choose a random professor at a local, not so famous small liberal arts college or the random big, directional (Western, Central, etc.) state university and look them up on google scholar--they still have to publish. Their teaching loads are higher so their expectations for publication are lower, but among social science professors, everyone has to do both.

For what it's worth, from the small sample that I've seen, a lot of graduates from less prestigious programs go to work in places that require them to administer and research, but not teach (places like the state correctional system, for instance, or a non-profit advocacy organization), at a higher rate than those from more prestigious schools.

Anyway, the point is, like everyone said, find out from the DGS where recent grads have gone (see if you can get a population not a biased sample) and get an idea of what attrition has been like, and ask yourself, is that where I would be happy in seven or so years? Hell, that's what people should do even if they get into Michigan or Wisconsin or any better known program. I actually like the idea of contacting the recent grads--those with jobs--because they'll be able to tell you better. See if you can get one on the phone, even. Ask them about their own experiences and their colleagues' experiences. One of my former TA's convinced me not to apply to Religion PhD programs because he could only find a job at a community college despite the fact that he had gone to one of the very top religion graduate schools. He said that in that field, there simply weren't enough jobs out there. It's one of the main reasons I switched to sociology (with the same project).

My dad teaches at a university with a small sociology program ranked outside the top fifty (if you only graduate two or three or whatever PhD's a year, your program will never be in the top 50) but they still manage to get jobs all over the country--more so in the area around his university, but he tells me that's mostly because they like our city and don't want to move (especially if they have a partner with a stable job). Usually they get jobs at schools I haven't heard of, but I just saw several at a conference I went to with him and they seem happy. From his telling, it's definitely the case that people from smaller PhD programs choose to stay locally rather than they are forced to do so. And he just generally wishes they wouldn't choose to do so.

[sociologo]

Ah, there are definitely schools that don't require you to publish and promote teaching instead. Yes, they are usually at smaller liberal-arts colleges, and no, they are not tenure-track positions. But hey, not everyone cares about tenure, and not everyone wants to do research. Some people really do just want to teach, and there are universities that will let them (Hey my small undergraduate institution!). You can definitely find them if that's what you're interested in.

[sciencegirl]

I really want to add the caveat that university-level teaching is quite challenging, and a 500-person survey course is very different than leading a freshman seminar, and that non-tenure track teaching jobs (adjunct positions) are really not living wage jobs by any means - I don't want to publicly say how much my friends who are adjunct make (you can PM me though), but they are only able to do it because of partners who have both higher paying supporting jobs, and health care benefits. If you are single, or need to be the breadwinner in the family, a non tenure track position is incredibly difficult to survive on unless you are full time at a top R1 school.

One thing someone told me to look out for with placement, is to make sure a program's phD graduates are in a TT track position.. often jobs that are "visiting assistant professor" or "lecturer" positions are not TT track, and are temporary (some schools even cap the time limit - say 1-3 years max in a row - someone can be a full time adjunct somewhere.)

I just wanted to highlight this so that you can set your goals and expectations accordingly - since it seems like you want the information from these forums to help you succeed.

[giacomo]

If you are single, or need to be the breadwinner in the family, a non tenure track position is incredibly difficult to survive on unless you are full time at a top R1 school.

@sciencegirl or those in the know: how much does a full-time teaching job make at a non-top R1 (lower R1, non-R1, LAC, CC, etc.)?

[sciencegirl]

http://chronicle.com/article/Chart-Average-Faculty/64999/

Although - the reason I find this chart deceptive is that it only looks at full time Instructors/adjunct.. so you might look at that and go, $50,000 is a great salary. Unfortunately, what a lot of my friends have told me is that for younger people/recent phDs, a trend has been for schools to hire adjuncts to teach just 2-3 classes a year so that the university can cut costs by not having to pay them full time salaries and benefits. (since if one person teaches 5-6 classes a year, they then qualify for full time benefits). One of my friends gets paid around just $5000 per class on the part time model.. so what happens then is a school can hire 2 adjuncts to teach 3 classes each, paying them each around $15,000 w/o benefits - instead of one person for 6 classes around $45,000 + benefits.. if that makes sense (it saves the school $20K). It's in my opinion a big issue that needs to be addressed at a union level - as I think its really terrible that schools are doing this in greater numbers, especially to their younger hires. Hence, my friends who are younger and teach adjunct are making A LOT less than the $50,000 amount indicated on the Chronicle.

[Darth.Vegan]

The amounts for assistant, associate and professor seem right. However, something tells me the average for lecturer and instructor is being skewed by outliers. I would like to see the median for those.

[tt503]

http://chronicle.com...-Faculty/64999/

Although - the reason I find this chart deceptive is that it only looks at full time Instructors/adjunct.. so you might look at that and go, $50,000 is a great salary. Unfortunately, what a lot of my friends have told me is that for younger people/recent phDs, a trend has been for schools to hire adjuncts to teach just 2-3 classes a year so that the university can cut costs by not having to pay them full time salaries and benefits. (since if one person teaches 5-6 classes a year, they then qualify for full time benefits). One of my friends gets paid around just $5000 per class on the part time model.. so what happens then is a school can hire 2 adjuncts to teach 3 classes each, paying them each around $15,000 w/o benefits - instead of one person for 6 classes around $45,000 + benefits.. if that makes sense (it saves the school $20K). It's in my opinion a big issue that needs to be addressed at a union level - as I think its really terrible that schools are doing this in greater numbers, especially to their younger hires. Hence, my friends who are younger and teach adjunct are making A LOT less than the $50,000 amount indicated on the Chronicle.

I agree that the data seems skewed. The assumption of $5000.00 per class as the norm for adjuncts is kind of laughable. I've adjuncted for awhile now, and the most I was ever offered for one class was $2400.00 and the lowest was $1000.00. In my experience, which has been mostly with smaller departments, hiring one person to teach three classes isn't incredibly likely, because the adjuncts pick up whatever classes the tenured professors don't want, which are usually introductory classes with larger enrollments, so they don't want to overextend your workload.

[sciencegirl]

@tt503... I was saying 2-3 courses over the course of a year - not per quarter or semester. Which is the problem, since adjunct teaching doesn't give you enough courses to make a decent living/salary since you aren't getting enough classes and you aren't getting full time benefits.

[jacib]

I didn't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I'm repeating stuff, but you guys know there's a big google doc out there with all the adjucting salaries. Here's the impetus behind the project, here's the massive google doc, and here's the website for "The Adjunct Project". I know NYU adjuncts get the same pay as the graduate students do (it was one of the weird things they did to crush the graduate student union there).

Luckily, sociologists tend to be less likely to fall into the adjuncting trap than recent English PhDs, but it's one of the way the labor market could move...

[giacomo]

Awesome.

I mean, @jacib's posts are. Not the adjunct pays.

[MashaMashaMasha]

Congrats! I echo others in saying that this is a great opportunity and you should visit, talk to students, and see if the dept would be a good environment for you. Keep us updated!

[Chuck]

Supernovasky- I'm curious as to what you've decided! Did you visit? Did you like the department?

[princesspi]

Congrats on your acceptance! :D