Masters Application from the UK

[ssk2]

Hi all,

I applied to Stanford, CMU and UT Austin for their MS CS courses respectively. The first two rejected me and I think the third was incomplete because one of my letters wasn't submitted. I'm wondering whether it's worth applying again next year with an improved application, and to more universities.

My application was as follows-

Statement of Purpose - reasonably good, I had it proof read by a lecturer, a couple of current PhD students and as many well spoken friends as I could. Post rejection though, our careers service had a look and said that it wasn't crystal clear why exactly they should give me a place over another candidate.

GRE - 780Q, 590V. 89th and 84th percentile respectively.

Transcript/GPA - this is different to most US universities. I studied my undergraduate at the University of Cambridge and graduated with a 2.i degree which roughly equates to a 3.0 - 3.4 GPA. We don't have a calculated GPA and my transcript shows raw marks which, I imagine, look quite unimpressive. I struggled during my first two years and my exam scores are low - between 50 and 65%. My final year I did much better but the scores are still between 55% and 79%, putting me in the top half of my year group.

Letters of Recommendation - with the exception of one referee, two of my letter writers had no experience of the U.S. university system. Whilst I tried to give them as much guidance as possible, I suspect that at least one of these letters was rushed and not nearly as strong as it could have been. That was a from a senior lecturer too.

I graduated in 2009, I've been working in London for the last two years - first at an investment bank and then I left to join Last.fm. I'm also doing some research in collaboration with a lecturer from a nearby university. I have no idea whether this will yield a paper or not by application time in Autumn.

I'd love to hear what you think-

1) Do I have a chance? Is it worth applying again?

2) Is it worth taking the GRE again? Is it worth taking the Computer Science GRE? (This is quite inconvenient in the UK because they only have one sitting with enough time before the applications close.)

3) If I apply again, is it better to get a strong recommendation from my manager than to ask the senior lecturer? I will then have one academic reference and two industry.

4) Do admissions tutors take into account the way exams are marked/scores are reported in different countries? Will my transcript be putting me at a significant disadvantage (so as not make it worth applying again)?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

(P.S. Does anyone have the link to that PDF regarding MS applications?)

Edited April 9, 2012 by ssk2

[jjsakurai]

If you do apply again, I'd recommend expanding your list to include schools that are not just the top few.

[finknottle]

1) Not at those places unless you boost your profile significantly. Apply to a wider set of schools.

2) The general GRE not so much. The subject GRE, definitely. Provided you do well of course.

3) Depends on who is better known to the committee and who would write a stronger letter. If your manager is someone who has research experience and has publications, or if he is a big shot, it will work. If that is not the case, I would say stick to the senior lecturer (which is at least assistant prof. or better right? I'm not familiar with the UK system.)

4) To an extent, but numbers are numbers. Even with your best case estimate of a conversion to 3.4, it doesn't make a very competitive application. The Cambridge tag might mitigate that to some extent though.

[Pauli]

2) The general GRE not so much. The subject GRE, definitely. Provided you do well of course.

It's very risky to submit scores for the subject GRE, and you really have to score well in it to make it worth your while to the adcomms.

The Cambridge tag might mitigate that to some extent though.

It won't. Adcomms aren't concerned about what school you attended, but how well you did during your time there. This is especially true with the adcomms at UT Austin, because I had lunch with one of the members during one of their lunch with a professor events when I was an undergrad there, and he said they don't focus on that since they treat candidates on an equal standing.

[ssk2]

Thanks for your replies and advice guys.

It's very risky to submit scores for the subject GRE, and you really have to score well in it to make it worth your while to the adcomms.

With the subject GRE test, are you able take it without submitting a list of schools? IIRC, ETS lets you submit scores afterwards? I understand that this will cost me more but that way I can take the test and only submit the score if it is good?

3) Depends on who is better known to the committee and who would write a stronger letter. If your manager is someone who has research experience and has publications, or if he is a big shot, it will work. If that is not the case, I would say stick to the senior lecturer (which is at least assistant prof. or better right? I'm not familiar with the UK system.)

Senior lecturer is about as high as it goes before head of department, so I'd probably equate it to professor.

I think my course of action is going to be-

1. Retake the GRE and try and get full marks (whatever that is on the new system).
   
2. Take the CS GRE in October and submit scores if they're good.
   
3. Try and get something published before November-time.
   
4. Apply to more schools.
   

[jjsakurai]

It won't. Adcomms aren't concerned about what school you attended, but how well you did during your time there. This is especially true with the adcomms at UT Austin, because I had lunch with one of the members during one of their lunch with a professor events when I was an undergrad there, and he said they don't focus on that since they treat candidates on an equal standing.

This is not universally true. Check out Section 3.1 of the Grad School Talk(http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~harchol/gradschooltalk.pdf). Probably depends a lot on the person reading your app but my guess is that for most people it will make a difference (although the bias may be subconscious).

[jjsakurai]

Thanks for your replies and advice guys.

With the subject GRE test, are you able take it without submitting a list of schools? IIRC, ETS lets you submit scores afterwards? I understand that this will cost me more but that way I can take the test and only submit the score if it is good?

Yes - you can do that.

[quinquenion]

Transcript/GPA - this is different to most US universities. I studied my undergraduate at the University of Cambridge and graduated with a 2.i degree which roughly equates to a 3.0 - 3.4 GPA. We don't have a calculated GPA and my transcript shows raw marks which, I imagine, look quite unimpressive. I struggled during my first two years and my exam scores are low - between 50 and 65%. My final year I did much better but the scores are still between 55% and 79%, putting me in the top half of my year group.

I'd actually probably equate an upper second to 3.3-3.7, depending on the American school. In my experience*, the top American unis are familiar with the British marking system. However, it cannot hurt if you get your tutor (or other letter writer) to comment briefly on the way grades work.

*I did my undergrad in the States and two masters degrees at Imperial College London.

Letters of Recommendation - with the exception of one referee, two of my letter writers had no experience of the U.S. university system. Whilst I tried to give them as much guidance as possible, I suspect that at least one of these letters was rushed and not nearly as strong as it could have been. That was a from a senior lecturer too.

You should definitely watch out for this. I've been told that American letter writers tend to write in superlatives and "damn by faint praise", whereas British letter writers are more balanced in their assessments. Either works so long as the adcom understands the cultural conventions, but in translating from the UK to the US, sometimes applicants are at a disadvantage for that reason.

[Pauli]

You should definitely watch out for this. I've been told that American letter writers tend to write in superlatives and "damn by faint praise", whereas British letter writers are more balanced in their assessments. Either works so long as the adcom understands the cultural conventions, but in translating from the UK to the US, sometimes applicants are at a disadvantage for that reason.

Don't reference writers in India also write similarly to reference writers in the UK? There seems to be a lot of accepted Indian applicants, and their reference letters would seem to be doing fine.

[quinquenion]

Don't reference writers in India also write similarly to reference writers in the UK? There seems to be a lot of accepted Indian applicants, and their reference letters would seem to be doing fine.

I don't know anything about Indian letters of reference, and was just repeating something that's been told to me multiple times, both in person by faculty/administrators and online. One source here (an archival copy of a CHE article):

http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~wilkins/onepage/che-recommend.html

As I said, so long as the adcom understands the "code" with which the letter is written, there's not an issue. I strongly suspect that any school that gets many British applicants (including all the top schools) will understand. However, it's still something to keep in mind.