Questions from UK Student looking to do bio PhD in US

[sysbioj]

Hi guys,

This is my first post here after doing quite a lot of reading/research.

Basically I'm currently at a top uni in the UK, studying medicine (however I will complete a degree in biochemistry in 2013, and after that would like to leave to do a PhD in the US before coming back to do clinical medicine in the UK).

By the time I apply, I will have completed:

15 weeks of research in Cambridge, UK

9 weeks at the MIT-Whitehead institute

9 weeks at the University of Zurich

And will be doing an 8 week bachelor's project the trimester after I apply

Now question is will this be enough research experience for top systems bio programs in the US? I ask because I could potentially do a 4th year of undergraduate, but wouldn't want to spend an extra year in what is already a really long education if isn't necessary (and I also have to decide on this 4th year now, so can't take a wait and see approach).

I was also wondering about the actual importance of the PhD program you apply to, e.g. the Systems bio program at Harvard and CSBi at MIT, judging from forums, seem to have much lower success rates than just the standard bio program even though the same faculty are available to be PhD advisors in the long run, so what's the advantage of applying to them?

Thanks for the help!

[aberrant]

By the time I apply, I will have completed:

15 weeks of research in Cambridge, UK

9 weeks at the MIT-Whitehead institute

9 weeks at the University of Zurich

And will be doing an 8 week bachelor's project the trimester after I apply

Now question is will this be enough research experience for top systems bio programs in the US? I ask because I could potentially do a 4th year of undergraduate, but wouldn't want to spend an extra year in what is already a really long education if isn't necessary (and I also have to decide on this 4th year now, so can't take a wait and see approach).

assuming you have 15+9+9 = 33 weeks of experience as a full-time (40 hrs/week), you'll have roughly 1.26 years of research experience (20 hrs/week) as an undergrad when you apply. I think this number is on the low side for many bio science programs (I could be wrong since you're looking at top system bio programs). i assumed that the most competitive applicants would have at least 2 years of research experience when they apply. Also, a 4th years (or even 5th year) in the U.S. as an undergraduate is pretty common. In fact, 3 years to complete your bachelor degree is considered "fast". While taking an extra year maybe too long for you, it can only do you good by accumulating more research experience (so that you will be just as competitive as the others). of course, research experience isn't the only factor that determines your chances to get into grad school, as you may have already know through reading/research @ this forum. You can always have a combo of strong LORs, GRE scores, and PS/SOP(s) to compensate your relatively less research experience.

I was also wondering about the actual importance of the PhD program you apply to, e.g. the Systems bio program at Harvard and CSBi at MIT, judging from forums, seem to have much lower success rates than just the standard bio program even though the same faculty are available to be PhD advisors in the long run, so what's the advantage of applying to them?

i could definitely be wrong on this one, but the main difference is the advance coursework that you will be taking varies a lot. Your thesis may also focus on one approach over the other, even if two different students from different programs work for the same PI. I'll suggest you to post the same question at the biology forum, or wait for other grad students such as Eigen to give you a more accurate answer.

Edited April 12, 2012 by aberrant

[sysbioj]

assuming you have 15+9+9 = 33 weeks of experience as a full-time (40 hrs/week), you'll have roughly 1.26 years of research experience (20 hrs/week) as an undergrad when you apply. I think this number is on the low side for many bio science programs (I could be wrong since you're looking at top system bio programs). i assumed that the most competitive applicants would have at least 2 years of research experience when they apply. Also, a 4th years (or even 5th year) in the U.S. as an undergraduate is pretty common. In fact, 3 years to complete your bachelor degree is considered "fast". While taking an extra year maybe too long for you, it can only do you good by accumulating more research experience (so that you will be just as competitive as the others). of course, research experience isn't the only factor that determines your chances to get into grad school, as you may have already know through reading/research @ this forum. You can always have a combo of strong LORs, GRE scores, and PS/SOP(s) to compensate your relatively less research experience.

i could definitely be wrong on this one, but the main difference is the advance coursework that you will be taking varies a lot. Your thesis may also focus on one approach over the other, even if two different students from different programs work for the same PI. I'll suggest you to post the same question at the biology forum, or wait for other grad students such as Eigen to give you a more accurate answer.

Thanks for the answers.

Do you happen to know if Professors appreciate regional differences (this is something I could tell a letter-writer to include)?

In the UK all bachelors degrees are 3 years long, with little to no time for research during term time (which from people I've spoken to in the US is common), until 3rd year when the focus moves to more independent study rather than lecture heavy courses.

Also do programs have any reapplication bias, i.e. If I were to sign up for the 4 year program now, apply to the US this winter, get rejected and then reapply during my 4th year would I be at a disadvantage to someone who had applied for the first time (assuming all else is equal)?

Thanks again for the help

[aberrant]

Thanks for the answers.

Do you happen to know if Professors appreciate regional differences (this is something I could tell a letter-writer to include)?

In the UK all bachelors degrees are 3 years long, with little to no time for research during term time (which from people I've spoken to in the US is common), until 3rd year when the focus moves to more independent study rather than lecture heavy courses.

Also do programs have any reapplication bias, i.e. If I were to sign up for the 4 year program now, apply to the US this winter, get rejected and then reapply during my 4th year would I be at a disadvantage to someone who had applied for the first time (assuming all else is equal)?

I don't know if regional different matters. But let's see if this logic make sense to you.

- Many grad school accepts fewer international applicants due to funding reasons. So if you are an international student, you are in an even-more-competitive pool when you apply to any grad schools.

- Many people that I know started to do research when they were freshman / sophomore, some were even high schoolers back then (e.g. summer research). So it may not be a very good idea to explain in your SOP that why you have few research experience than the others. We all have 24 hrs a day, so we'll just have to play around our timetables for our own interests (e.g. sleep less, eat fast, walk fast, etc.). I once sleep 4-5 hours/day for months just to attend classes and do research.

- Lacking the 4th year may put you in a disadvantage position--unless you have taken/currently taking/will take a few graduate level coursework to further prepare yourself (not saying this is a must, but people that I know did that).

- Good side is that you have what they call "international research experience" (if this is what "regional differences" means). The reputation of your research programs maybe top-notch, but it will be a huge, positive factor if you can get 3 strong recommendation letters from researchers/professors/experts from science field (ideally system bio experts) that say great things about you (e.g. this person has great potential to do well in grad school, etc.)

I think there are very few programs show bias to their former applicants, or they would have something like "former applicants who were rejected by us will not be consider for the next 3 cycles, if reapply". It can be tricky, however, that if you have not significantly improve your application profile if you reapply because impression plays a role (depends on person) and yet not every school changes their admission committee every year.

Again, this is just my 2 cents and I could be totally wrong :/. But what I would suggest you to do is to get more research experience (hopefully independent in the near future) as soon as you can. If you have no intention to get a master, then work for a year as a full-time post-bac research assistant (or something) and apply in Fall 2013.