How much background do you have?

[nocturne]

After finding my 4th rejection this morning (fully half of the schools I applied to) I am very curious about how much background the people have who are getting in.

I know my grades, GRE scores, and letters of recommendation are good. I've had or am currently taking seven linguistics courses at my non-linguistics-degree-offering school, and had As in most of them, with a couple Bs during a particularly rough year that I explained in my statement (someone very close to me passed away). This is the equivalent of a minor at my school, but they won't allow it to be officially called that if you have an English major (which I do, in addition to a Communication major). I've also taken a couple of grad-level classes in the field, since my school DOES offer an MA. I go to a large Southern research university with a middling reputation.

So what sort of background do you have? Does everyone else but me have a master's or a linguistics B.A.? I'm trying to figure out what is going wrong, so that I can strengthen my application for next year, if need be.

[nocturne]

Wow, if you have all that going for you and don't get in anywhere, then I haven't a snowballs chance in hell with my 3.65 GPA and English B.A./Comm B.A. combo. I, too, was urged to go to grad school, but I guess I might have to aim a little lower than direct entrance into a Ph.D. program. I did get good GRE scores, though (720V/710Q).

I guess I have been living a sheltered life here at Podunk State U, because I haven't had half of the opportunities you've had access to at UCLA. Maybe I should have stayed in Los Angeles after all (I lived there for 4 years).

I'm down to UCSD (which I visit next week) and my "safety schools," which suddenly aren't looking that safe. Until I read your info, I didn't know the competition was quite so steep. I was judging my chances based on the students I know here, but I guess it's the whole size-of-fish vs. size-of-pond issue.

My backup plan isn't even all that great: move to Santa Cruz and take their undergrad classes as continuing ed and reapply next year. I don't know what I'll do if I don't get in next year; all I want to do is study linguistics, which isn't exactly a layperson's pursuit.

[Dinali]

[sorry, but I deleted the post you responded to. I can only afford to feel sorry for myself a few minutes a day]

I think it's all around just a bad year not to have a perfect application, with dried up funding and the increased number of applicants. Add to that the fact that all Ling departments are tiny to start with, and that there's no MA to take up the slack for the not-so-perfect apps, and you've got about 2-5 admits per school (where in a bumper year you'd still only have 5-10!).

Even with all that, I'm still surprised at how competetive it is. I mean, how many Ling majors are there? I've never met a single other one outside of school. UCLA's department is one of the biggest in the country, and I graduated in a class of about 12 "pure" ling majors. I would have thought there'd be room for everybody. It's not exactly a "default" degree, like history or English. The very fact that you want to do Linguistics as a career probably indicates a capacity to.

Anyway, good luck to you. Your Santa Cruz plan sounds like a good one (although I can't stand the town, one reason I didn't apply there).

[nocturne]

[sorry, but I deleted the post you responded to. I can only afford to feel sorry for myself a few minutes a day]

Yeah, for a minute there I looked like a street person talking to myself.

Anyway, good luck to you. Your Santa Cruz plan sounds like a good one (although I can't stand the town, one reason I didn't apply there).

I've never been to Santa Cruz... what's not to like?

[Dinali]

I've never been to Santa Cruz... what's not to like?

It's a personal thing and wouldn't apply to anyone else.

[barredell]

I have (will have...) a BA in Linguistics from a small liberal arts college.

And I have never met a linguistics major from another school apart from conferences, which does not count. It's kind of eerie, sometimes, heh. We exist, I swear we do...

[fuzzylogician]

I have a BA in linguistics, plus one year as an exchange student where I basically took grad level courses which for bureaucratic reasons don't officially count toward my masters. Officially I'm now in the first year of a masters program that I'll very likely not finish when I start a PhD program next year (I'll have enough courses but my thesis might not be done). I also worked last year and this year as an RA on 4 projects overall, which I think was much more instrumental to my admissions (experience+recommendations wise) than the grad level courses I took.

[chillofrito]

Hi,

I've been rejected from every school I applied to. Some I expected (Stanford) and other shook me up a little (Texas, Arizona). I have two F's on my undergraduate transcript at a mid-level public university. I don't really know what was going on. It was nine years ago now, though. Since then I've gotten an MA in Linguistics at a top-two rated public school. However, its not really known for its linguistics `program.'

I also have presented original work at an international conference. This summer, I will present some more research I'm doing right now.

I was pretty lazy really, because I assumed my MA (and thesis) and experience would get me in for sure. I could have finished writing at least two journal articles, which I think, and this has been suggested by others, are publishable. I only scored 1230 on the GREs. . . but I didn't study. This has come as a surprise but also a wake-up call. I want to be a linguist. I want to be paid to research and travel. But I'm obviously going to have to work.

All that to say that you aren't alone in being rejected. However, if you really want to go to graduate school, waiting another year won't kill you. In the meantime, do every single thing you can think of, because you won't be the only one applying, and plenty of those other people will have done every single thing they could.

[fuzzylogician]

All that to say that you aren't alone in being rejected. However, if you really want to go to graduate school, waiting another year won't kill you. In the meantime, do every single thing you can think of, because you won't be the only one applying, and plenty of those other people will have done every single thing they could.

YES. This. I've known I wanted to get a PhD in linguistics and be a researcher since the start of undergrad but I still spent last year applying for scholarships and doing an exchange program because I *knew* I'd never get into a good program straight out of undergrad. Spending one extra year strengthening your qualifications is totally worth it.

[paigemont]

The longer I wait for my last decision to come in, the more I agree that taking a year off for a masters degree/research might be in my best interest. I want my PhD school to be -perfect- and at this point, I'm just not sure.

As for my background, I'm certainly not the best applicant, but I don't think I'm terrible. I've got a ling BA from a major public university, four letters of rec total (two of which are from very influential people in the field), ~3.8 GPA, 2 years of work/research at a fairly well-known comp. ling. research group, and some graduate course experience. I think my weaknesses are just too many at this point -- mid-range GRE (somewhere around a 1350, though I forget the exact number), a statement of purpose that probably did not play off my strengths, an underwhelming writing sample, and perhaps too many, somewhat convoluted interests. I'm pretty sure that I only got accepted at UIUC because one prof there just happens to be an alumnus of my alma mater, took language courses under the same instructor as me, and now wants to do fieldwork in that country. Essentially, I was accepted because I fit one obscure profile by pure chance, not because they were impressed with my linguistics abilities.

In short, you're not alone here, nocturne. This business is rough.

[ellbell]

I have a 3.8 overall/4.0 major GPA, 640V/770Q for the GRE, and have been working as a linguist for the last 3 years (field linguistics and SLA, although not in an academic environment... so that sucks). I also know a number of languages (5-7 depending on what you count as different languages), but I'm not sure that matters much. I think the weak points of my application were that I majored in Language Studies (foreign languages and courses on most of the subfields) instead of pure Linguistics, was a bit scattered about what I wanted to study (still trying to figure it out), and one of my letters is from a non-PhD. Also, no publications or formal research experience.

From what other PhDs tell me, the admissions process can be somewhat random. One prof I talked to got into UCB Linguistics primarily because of her high GRE math score. My mentor was rejected from her first choice PhD program b/c the department wanted an international student. That's not to say that it's all randomness, but you just never know what a particular department is looking for that year.

[Dinali]

Man, when I see what you guys think is mid-range for the GRE my stomach turns into knots again. Maybe I'm not getting in anywhere because of my math GRE score. Crap

[fuzzylogician]

I doubt 1350 is really considered mid-range. The way I see it, the GRE score can only ever keep you out of a program, not get you into it. So unless you scored abysmally, I'd say you're fine.

[ellbell]

yes, i should clarify about that one prof - that was like 20 years ago or something. i don't think most programs put a lot of emphasis on the GRE these days...

[pangur-ban]

I assume I'll be applying again next year too. I didn't have enough time to prepare very well this year, but my professors and the professors I talked to at the universities where I applied all seemed to think I ought to give it a shot, so I did. But I think my background is more 'interesting' than 'strong.'

[Dinali]

I doubt 1350 is really considered mid-range. The way I see it, the GRE score can only ever keep you out of a program, not get you into it. So unless you scored abysmally, I'd say you're fine.

Well, my qualitative was 800, and my combined score is substantially below paigemont's, so you can estimate where my math score is. I can't, of course, not without a calculator

In my defense, it was still the '90s when I had my last college-level math course.

[fuzzylogician]

Eh. That really isn't all that great. Sorry about that. Your application might be stellar but not even looked at if a school has a score cutoff to weed out the initial applicant pool. I hear it's common in fields that have lots and lots of applicants, but I wonder if they'd do that in linguistics seeing as programs don't usually even get 150 applications overall. That score would be an obvious candidate for improvement if you don't get in, though. *trying to see the silver lining*

[Dinali]

Pangor-ban, your history sounds awesome to me. I think we could totally hang out.

I studied Japanese and French as an undergrad, eventually doing a French minor and a year abroad in France. (I also have some strong pedogogical opinions on the way French is taught in most programs in the US stemming from that experience.) Historical Linguistics was how I first learned about ling. I see no reason why you can't do research in the field, even if you specialize in one of the more mainstream subjects. Russell Schuh and Pam Munro at UCLA both do that. I also knew a history grad student who collaborated with the linguistics department and used the pattern of borrowings of the words among Nilotic languages to trace migration patterns in the region back 700 years earlier than the pottery record allowed (or something like that. It's been awhile since I read the study). So that was a cool and useful contribution to two different fields.

But on the subject of Celtic languages, would you mind sharing more about your experience in Wales? Early on I was seriously considering specializing or even majoring in Celtic studies, particularly Irish. I have some Irish speakers in my family. I never learned more than a few phrases, since I grew up apart from that side, but it's something I've always felt worth revisiting. Do you know of any similar programs to the one you did that are in Ireland? Feel free to IM or PM as well.

Thanks

[Dinali]

Eh. That really isn't all that great. Sorry about that. Your application might be stellar but not even looked at if a school has a score cutoff to weed out the initial applicant pool. I hear it's common in fields that have lots and lots of applicants, but I wonder if they'd do that in linguistics seeing as programs don't usually even get 150 applications overall. That score would be an obvious candidate for improvement if you don't get in, though. *trying to see the silver lining*

Yeah. I figured I'd have done at least a lot better, but you know how they give you two sections, and one's experimental and the other counts, but you don't know which is which and you don't know whether the two will be Qual or Quant? I got two Quant sections, and I'm certain the one that counted was the second, because some of the questions on the first were crazy stuff I'd never even heard off, while all the questions on the second were practically straight out of the book. But by then I was completely wiped out and was making all kinds of simple mistakes that I recognized immediately afterwards, but couldn't stop doing.

In any case, I think it wasn't bad enough to knock me right out, because I've actually only gotten one actual rejection. If I was auto-rejected by a system, I'd have heard already. I'm plenty worried about universal rejections, but I'm certain that they'll at least all come from an actual person.

[nocturne]

In my defense, it was still the '90s when I had my last college-level math course.

I'm normally not a huge math person, either, but I do well at it if I put my mind to it and/or use it regularly. For the GRE, I studied "Cliffs Math Review for Standardized Tests" and a couple of other general GRE books that I forget the name of, and did some practice tests online. And I hadn't had a real math class since high school in 1998. I definitely recommend the Cliffs book, if you're looking to take it again. Six weeks with that puppy and I got a 710, after knowing next-to-nothing at the outset.

Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's always the math section that there are two of.

[pangur-ban]

Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's always the math section that there are two of.

I got two of the verbal sections, and this after I'd half-convinced myself the math one was a testing section, since it was so much harder than anything in the Kaplan book I'd bought...

[Phonologist]

I'd say all of your GRE scores are fine. Mine are considerably lower than anything that's been posted here; I just barely broke 1200. Granted, only two of the schools I applied to wanted them, but I have interviews at both of them. They are top programs.

So I guess the good thing is that it's not as much of a numbers game as you might think. My GPA isn't very good either.

[paigemont]

I think I saw someone at UCSC who works with modern Irish a lot, and Andrew Garrett at Berkeley has done at least one article on Old/Ancient Irish.

You may know this already, but Eve Sweetser at Berkeley does some work on (old) Celtic languages. I think she even teaches Breton and some other things in the Celtic Studies department.

[pangur-ban]

You may know this already, but Eve Sweetser at Berkeley does some work on (old) Celtic languages. I think she even teaches Breton and some other things in the Celtic Studies department.

Oh, awesome, thanks. I was originally planning on applying there, since it looked like you could do a PhD in linguistics working with their Celtic Studies program, but I was advised not to bother with them. (??) It's definitely going on my list for next year though.

[deluxe]

I'm going to get my BA in linguistics and mathematics this June. I have done a lot of pure maths but as for linguistics, I've taken more topic courses than core ones (syntax, phonetics, etc. I haven't taken phonology and semantics). GPA ~3.9, but have had quite bad freshman year. GRE V 750 Q 800. Language background is pretty good(native in Mandarin and two dialects of Chinese, fluent in English, German, French, know Latin, Greek, Gothic, Maori, and bit of Sanskrit). But my recommendor told me that I would be competing with many master students, and what I lack is a specific goal. (My primary interest is historical and formal, but can do computational as well)

So far only waitlisted at UChicago, and no news from all the other schools.