Questions about Joint MFA in Creative Writing/PhD in English Literature Programs?

[B-612]

Hi, everyone!

I am looking for joint MFA/PhD programs and thought I'd invite your recommendations. My top two choices at this point in time are Cornell and University of Iowa/Writers' Workshop. The Writers' Workshop is important to me because Flannery O'Connor went there and she is a great influence on my own work. I'd like to be for the Episcopal Church/Anglican Communion what she was for the Catholic Church (setting a high goal--I know).

My main interests include religious literature and LGBTQ literature. I also have interests in British literature, Russian formalism, magical realism and children's literature.

I also wanted to ask if my graduate GPA (3.58 for my Master of Divinity degree from Vanderbilt) would sink my application from the get-go. My faculty assured me that since it was a top university in the field of religion that that was actually a GPA to be proud of but I doubt it would appear that way to an outsider. I was, however, awarded "honors" over an A for all four classes in which such a grade could be received as well as on my master's thesis.

Any advice for getting into these programs? Help a self-conscious, sometimes overly pessimistic brother out. Many thanks for doing so!

[GuateAmfeminist]

I can't really help you on this - but I wanted to say that I LOVE The Little Prince, and thus, your avatar. I still read that book (I first read it in 3rd grade) and feel so deeply touched each time.

[Stately Plump]

Cornell will be wildly competitive. You will be competing against all other students applying for their PhD program, not just the students who are applying for the joint MFA/PhD. I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that in some years, they have only accepted one student to the joint MFA/PhD (and they probably got about 6-700 for their PhD program). Keep in mind that their program is not a PhD with a creative dissertation, but an actual dual-degree program. As such, you are expected to produce the same quality scholarly work that the other PhD students are producing.

The Writer's Workshop at Iowa does not have a PhD program. They are a two year residency program that confers only the MFA. However, in rare cases, PhD students may be allowed to do a creative dissertation via the Writer's Workshop. In order to do this, however, you must apply to (and be accepted in) the English Department's PhD program (which is technically separate from the Writer's Workshop). Once you have been accepted, and if your work is overly exceptional, you may (may) be allowed to do a creative dissertation. This is not guaranteed, however. You may be accepted to the PhD program in English Literature but not allowed to do a creative dissertation.

I don't say these things to scare you, only to say that these programs (along with pretty much all creative writing programs) are really competitive, and you shouldn't be too focused on getting accepted at, say, Cornell, because even if your GPA was perfect and you aced the GRE, there would be no guarantee you would get in.

Not to completely crush your spirits, and I definitely think you should still apply and you should still be excited about continuing your graduate studies, but your GPA is a bit low. If it was your undergrad, it might be overlooked if other aspects of your application made up for it, but as a graduate student, most schools are probably going to expect something closer to a 4.0. Remember that, across the board, more will be expected from students who have already done some graduate work than students coming straight from undergrad. I don't think it will sink you, and like I said, I think you should still apply, but it is something to consider.

If your focus is creative writing, and you are completely opposed to MFA programs (which would only take a year or two...), I would consider these schools as well.

[rainy_day]

For better or worse, your GPA and GRE are completely irrelevant to an MFA program. The only thing that matters is your writing portfolio and, once you make it to the finalists, your statement of purpose and letters of recommendation. This may not be the case for PhD programs in creative writing, however.

[Stately Plump]

For better or worse, your GPA and GRE are completely irrelevant to an MFA program. The only thing that matters is your writing portfolio and, once you make it to the finalists, your statement of purpose and letters of recommendation. This may not be the case for PhD programs in creative writing, however.

You're right, for straight MFA programs, all they care about is the quality of your writing and whether they think you are the type of writer who will flourish in their program. Cornell's joint MFA/PhD program, however, is not an MFA program; they are just as committed to producing scholarly academics as they are to producing creative writers. And to get in at Iowa, one would have to apply to the PhD program in English literature, not the MFA program (unless one sought the MFA, which, as you pointed out, would be different).

Not trying to be divisive, only making a (hopefully useful) distinction

[poeteer]

I don't know how the hell anyone gets into the joint MFA/Ph.D at Cornell. getting into either the Ph.D or MFA at Cornell is a feat by its own right (the Cornell MFA is also extremely selective in part because it has some of the best funding in the country for the degree: a very high stipend for the area + the option to stay and teach for the same $ up to two years if you need to). and you need to get into both!

one other option is the UW-Madison Ph.D's minor in creative writing -- you produce a scholarly dissertation but a fair portion of your coursework can be MFA workshops.

Edited May 3, 2012 by poeteer

[asleepawake]

I've heard from a student at Iowa that the Phd program does NOT want creative writers to apply. Too many people try to sneak into the WW through the PhD program, apparently. I'm not sure why they would do this, since not even non-fiction MFAs there are considered part of the Writers' Workshop. I doubt it's that easy to just sneak into a program as competitive as the WW (though apparently this does not stop people from trying).

Cornell is the only joint PhD/MFA that I know of, but there are a number of MFA programs that offer a joint MFA/MA. Theoretically, you could move on to a PhD from there. I know that McNeese State University and University of Alaska at Fairbanks both have such a program. I think these would be good options if you don't already have an MA.

Edited May 3, 2012 by asleepawake

[heliogabalus]

As people have alluded to, numbers-wise the MFA at Cornell is harder to get into than the PhD; same with Iowa. They take, maybe, what 2%? Probably even less. Most MFAs are highly selective. And since you have broad interests in literature, it sounds like you don't have a specialized interest in what you want to explore for your dissertation.

Why do you want a PhD/MFA in English / creative writing?