Education Major

[katie_h17]

(I posted this in the Decisions board, but I think it fits better here)

Hi everyone! I would like someone's input from the Humanities.

I am currently a Spanish Education major, but a lot of my professors are pressing grad school on me because they think I'd be successful there. I also think that learning more about Spanish and teaching it in a college setting would be fascinating! One of my professors is trying to convince me to drop my Education major and just major in Spanish, while minoring in Latin American Studies or another language (like French). Education is pretty intensive and the last whole year is dedicated to observation and student teaching, so I wouldn't be able to take a lot of classes.However, even with the Ed major, I do have some extra room in my schedule for some classes, like basic French and a Latin American history class.

My concern is that if I drop Education, it will be a lot harder to get a job if I decide to teach high school, because I won't have a teaching license. While this lets me take more I don't know if it is worth it or not. My one professor acts like having an Education degree is not going to help me at all regarding getting into grad school. Is it more likely that a grad school would accept me if I have a Spanish degree and a minor (with no Education major?). I'm not sure yet if I would like to teach in high school or college, but I would probably prefer college.

I just want to maximize my chances of getting into grad school and getting (probably from Hispanic Culture and Literature), but at the same time, I don't want to cut my future job opportunities. I currently have a full ride scholarship so I get four years of schooling free (I feel very lucky). I am also part of the Scholar class and have 4.0.

What do you all think? Should I stick with Ed or drop it to take on more classes from other areas, like other languages and Latin American studies?

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[moogle]

Hello! I've recently struggled through the same sort of decision between high school and college level teaching, so here's my take on the question.

First off, in my humble opinion, it sounds like you have nothing to worry about if you decide to shoot for grad school, with or without the Education component. "Pure" majors (who focus only on their area and don't double major/minor/etc.) are certainly still competitive applicants, so I see no reason why an Education major would be a detriment - especially considering a 4.0!

On the other hand, if you choose not to continue with the Education component for now, you can still certainly get back into it in other ways later.

I took a few Education courses throughout my undergrad but ultimately decided not to take on the full major. I'll be enrolling in a 3 year MAT program in the Fall. In case you're not familiar, MAT programs are essentially an MA and initial teaching certification rolled into one. It bumps you up the high school teacher pay-grade ladder a bit, as opposed to simply a BA with certification, and - to various degrees depending on the program - provides you with enough advanced coursework within your subject to be a very competitive PhD applicant should you later decide to pursue academia.

I'm not entirely familiar with what's available in terms of funding among the various Spanish degrees, but if I was able to find fully funded programs in Latin (both MA's geared towards future PhD study and MAT's), I suspect that there are definitely a lot of options for Spanish.

Finally, remember that funding in grad programs usually involves serving as a TA. Even in the selection of which MA/PhD candidates a department might like to admit, the suitability of the candidate to serve as a TA is definitely taken into consideration - it isn't all just research. An Education major - and/or actual teaching/tutoring experience - can definitely make you an attractive candidate.

So, in the end, I guess my advice is this: pick whichever option you're most leaning towards now and don't sweat it; neither of your options are "dead ends" if you should change your mind later. If you end up deciding to pursue certification after undergrad, in addition to MATs, there are alternative programs such as Teach for America that will get you certified, placed, and funded. On the other hand, if you decide to opt for the security of getting certification out of the way while it's close at hand, there's no reason to think that MA/PhD programs will look down upon that (whether you teach HS for a few years in the interim or not); quite the contrary, I think.

Edited May 8, 2012 by moogle

[katie_h17]

Thanks for your reply! So did you major in Latin? Or what language did you major in? And you said that you found full-funding for grad programs?

That sounds like an attractive option to apply for an MA in teaching and drop the Education major right now. Were you able to get funding for the MA program? I just know that the Ed department in my state (Ohio) tends to discourage teachers from getting a Masters right away because it apparently limits their chances of getting a job since the schools are required to pay them more. But I know of a couple people who did just that and found great jobs afterwards. And I think they got more offers from better school districts since they were more qualified.

Also, I like education and it's something that I have a passion for. But the education classes here are not very challenging. My school isn't horrible, but it definitely doesn't have a very reputable education program looking from the inside-out; so many language students have gotten really frustrated at the system (First of all the benchmarks don't make any sense because they assume students learn a foreign language from K-12, but the teachers judge/grade based on the benchmarks).

I'm just trying to think if I would have more opportunities in my career if I dropped ed, took some extra classes in French/Latin American history, and then applied for Grad School. Do you have any idea how easy/difficult it is to get a MA in Ed and then springboard to a PhD in something like Latin American Culture and Literature? That sounds like that would be the perfect plan because it allows me to go the high school OR the college route.

So just to clarify, if you do the MA in Ed program, you get certified to teach in public high schools?

I guess I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket

[moogle]

Hi again!

Correct! I just finished my BA in Latin and was fortunate enough to receive multiple fully-funded offers, both from MA programs and from the MAT I ended up choosing.

I too have heard that high schools will sometimes choose the cheaper teacher with a BA over a more qualified candidate. On the other hand, though, I'm fairly sure that Spanish is among the teacher shortage subjects in most states, so I think the demand is there. Moreover, though private schools don't require you to be certified (though they often prefer it), I get the impression that they especially like candidates with MA's. Better teachers with better credentials yield a better reputation for the school and more enrollment. I really doubt that school after school would turn you down for being "overqualified" if you earned an MA.

Right, the MAT degree includes certification as well as some MA-level coursework in your field. However, programs vary widely in length and in how much advanced coursework within your subject area you'll actually do. This Spanish MAT, for example, is pretty light on advanced coursework in Spanish (http://www.umass.edu...ograms/mat.html), whereas in the program I'm entering, MAT students are required to take 20 credits in Latin and 6 in history/culture (nearly as many as required for the standard MA), in addition to the 24 credits of Ed. courses required for state certification.

Additionally, whereas MA's usually require qualifying exams and/or a lengthy thesis paper, MAT's may or may not. If you want to completely maximize your chances of getting into a PhD program, you should go for the MA (if you're not directly admitted into a PhD program while only holding a BA). You can still get a job teaching at a private high school if you aren't certified, or even at a community college if you hold an MA. Or, of course, you could simply go back and enroll in one of those one-year certification-only programs or something similar.

Now, having said that, I think you certainly could hold an MAT degree and be considered by a PhD admissions committee to be on the same level coursework-wise as someone holding a standard MA. Here are a few links to some programs I found to help you get a better idea of what is out there: the first two are for MAT's that seem to have a pretty decent amount of advanced Spanish grammar, literature, etc. in addition to the education requirements, and both mention funding (though they're not too specific); the last is an MA/PhD program that is more straightforward about funding than a lot of programs tend to be.

http://umaine.edu/ml...duate-programs/

http://www.cal.nau.e..._overviews.html

http://www.indiana.e...e/funding.shtml

If you have the chance, I'd recommend talking with a professor or two, researching some of the other programs that are out there, and maybe even contacting the directors of those programs with a few questions.

If you ask me, though, it seems like you're pretty confident that you'd like to enroll in some sort of graduate program. That being the case, I'd say go ahead and drop Ed., and consider applying to a variety of MA, MAT, and PhD programs and see what happens. That's what I did, and I'm confident that I could get into a decent PhD program with the MAT I'll (hopefully) earn if I get sick of teaching high school.

Edited May 9, 2012 by moogle

[katie_h17]

Thanks for the reply, Moogle! Yes, I'm pretty confident I want to go to grad school, but I'm just not sure in what yet. I really like literature, but I've really enjoyed my phonetics/linguistics classes as well. However, I've heard people in linguistics aren't as in demand as the culture/literature specialists. I've also been toying around with the idea of an MA in speech pathology because it mixes a lot of elements that I like: psychology, neurolinguistics, education, etc. I've also heard that bilingual people are really in demand for that field.

Have you looked much into the job market? I think that's what worries me the most about grad school; I've heard competition for teaching positions in the Humanities is fierce. I've heard that you have to be ready to move pretty much anywhere (which really isn't a problem for me), but that it takes an extremely long time to get a full time/tenure job.

[SomedaySLP]

Thanks for the reply, Moogle! Yes, I'm pretty confident I want to go to grad school, but I'm just not sure in what yet. I really like literature, but I've also been toying around with the idea of an MA in speech pathology because it mixes a lot of elements that I like: psychology, neurolinguistics, education, etc. I've also heard that bilingual people are really in demand for that field.

Just thought I'd chime in on this point. You're correct that bilingual SLPs are in high demand. It also sounds like your interests would align well with SLP. Also, there is currently a shortage of PhDs in the field, so if your ultimate goal is to end up in academia, it's a decent field to go into as far as job opportunities go.

I had a similar profile as you. I originally thought I wanted to be a Spanish teacher but something about the fit of it just didn't seem right. I wound up triple majoring in Spanish Literature, Linguistics, and Speech Language and Hearing Science (the undergrad major for SLP at my school) sort of by accident. I liked my Spanish linguistics courses so I added the ling major, but still didn't see myself being a linguist. I took an SLP course as an elective and LOVED it. It combined all of my interests and gave them a practical application. The job market is strong compared to most fields these days and being bilingual just makes you a stronger applicant. I plan to go on for either a PhD or clinical doctorate in SLP, haven't decided which yet but I hope to have that figured out once I get moving through my MS program. That's one of the things I really like about the SLP field, there is an almost limitless number of avenues you can take within the field.

I will warn you though, it is extremely competitive to get into SLP master's programs! If you check out the SLP thread on this site (in the life sciences forum) you'll see that many people apply to around 10 programs and many come up empty handed. The typical acceptance rate seems to be around 10%, with more competitive programs <5%. You seem like a strong student, so I'm sure you have a good application profile, but just something to consider when picking where and how many programs to apply to, should you take that route.

Good luck with your decision! If you have any questions about the SLP route, feel free to send me a message, I'm happy to help

[moogle]

Right, in terms of tenure-track positions, it is rough out there. My department brought in two visiting assistant professors my senior year, and even for temporary, relatively low-paying positions such as those, I think there were 70+ applicants. When I visited the grad school I ended up choosing, the Chair of the department told me that they specifically warn prospective PhD students about exactly what you suggested. That's one of the reasons why I ended up opting for the MAT and planning to stop at the high school level; the same Chair told me that he didn't know of any MAT graduates who were still hungry for a job.

It's definitely something to take into consideration. If you work at it hard enough and long enough, I think don't think it's out of reach. On the other hand, it might be pretty rough getting there. Even if I'm being overly optimistic, I think it would be relatively easy to have high school teaching as a fall-back plan.

Good luck with your decision!

Edited May 12, 2012 by moogle

[katie_h17]

Thanks everyone! Yes, I've heard SLP programs are pretty competitive. I would have to take an extra year of undergrad at another university before getting my Masters; unfortunately my school doesn't offer a SLP Bachelor's Degree. (However, I am very lucky to have a full ride in undergrad so I'm planning on probably just finishing Spanish Ed).

Moogle, how could I increase my chances of getting accepting into a SLP Masters Program? Is there a lot of financial aid available or not really? We have an annual event where students present honors work or other kinds of work; maybe it would be a good idea to present something about SLP research? Maybe I could job shadow and observe a child and then do a case study. Do you have any ideas?

[SomedaySLP]

Like most fields, the funding for SLP programs tends to be reserved for the PhD students more than the master's level applicants. At the schools I applied to, I was offered an assistantship that would have waived the tuition plus paid a stipend for the first year at one school, and a 10k merit scholarship at another (most schools I declined admission before funding info was sent, as I was accepted to my top choice fairly early in the game and knew I would go there regardless). It's not uncommon to not receive any sort of direct funding though and most people, myself included, will rely heavily on student loans. Each school will vary in the amount of money they can throw around to fund MA students, so it's worth looking into that once you have decided on your schools of interest. In-state tuition can be very helpful if you have schools that fit your interests within your state.

Presenting some sort of SLP research would definitely be a bonus on your application, as it's not something many undergrads in our field get the opportunity to do. If you can't or it would be a serious stretch, I wouldn't worry too much about it though. Having research experience of any form will only help you, even if you just volunteer in a research lab (pysch depts often have language-related research going on or if you have linguists in your Spanish dept they might have something going on that would lend itself to SLP).

As far as taking an extra year after graduating, there are actually many options to get your pre-reqs done. While you're in undergrad, you can get many of the ASHA (American Speech-Language Hearing Association, the body that certifies and runs the regulation of the SLP field) general-ed requirements (biology, social science, math, etc...check asha.org, it's four courses I believe) if you haven't taken them already. You can also likely take courses like phonetics, language development, etc. through different departments that your school does have (psych, linguistics, child development, etc.) if you have elective room. I would compile a list of schools you're interested in and look at the courses they require and see if your school offers any of those.

Other options include applying to three-year MA programs, where you spend your first year doing pre-reqs or "leveling" as it's often called, before diving into grad-level work in your second and third years. The major downfall of that is you often are charged grad-level rates for the full three years which can be more expensive, depending on where you go. There are also post-bacc programs that offer SLP coursework, you could see if any universities in your area offer that. The downfall there is you typically have to apply to post-bacc programs (which can be fairly competitive) and then apply again to 2 year programs (very competitive). I've spoken with lots of people who took their pre-reqs through Utah State University's online pre-req program if you'd be interested in doing online. The benefit there is the courses are fairly inexpensive as they charge all distance learners an in-state rate. You could also probably take some of those courses during summers in your undergrad program if you wanted/were able, which could cut down on the time between undergrad and grad school.

As far as advice to bettering your application: keep your GPA high, and study your tail off for the GRE. Make strong connections with faculty members as an undergrad who will then be able to write you top-notch letters of recommendation. If you have opportunities to research, take them. Same for opportunities to volunteer/work with populations SLPs might serve (children with disabilities, the elderly, etc.). Start writing your statement of purpose early and have as many people read and edit it as possible before submitting. I'm not sure what your specific interest areas might be as far as what area of SLP you'd like to work in or what your career goals might be (more clinical versus research versus academic or some combination) but if you have an idea of any of that, feel free to let me know and I can point you in the direction of programs that might be a good fit for you. I spent almost two years investigating different programs and am helping my sister form her list of schools to apply to currently so I feel like some crazy database full of now-useless-to-me SLP program info these days

[katie_h17]

Thanks for your advice, Ally! I looked into Utah state and I"m astounded that their cost per credit hour is so low! That's lower than a lot of in-state colleges here. I'm definitely thinking about doing their classes online if I happen to go into SLP because it will definitely save me a lot of cash. So if you do their online program, do you graduate with a BS in SLP?

Congrats on your amazing offers; what school offered you an assistanceship and a stipend?

And also, on a side note, what made you decide to want to go into SLP?

I haven't really thought of an area of focus yet because I'm still debating going into the field. I'm a little torn between going to school for SLP and for a Masters/PhD in Spanish; hopefully I will get a better idea when I job shadow. However, from what I've seen with SLP on youtube, the work looks very rewarding. My biggest area of interest (without knowing much about the field) is probably articulation disorders. I think it would also be really cool to work with bilingual children since I'm fluent in Spanish

I'm really interested in how bilingual children learn to speak and read.

But working with children with autism and other disorders seems interesting as well.

[SomedaySLP]

Thanks for your advice, Ally! I looked into Utah state and I"m astounded that their cost per credit hour is so low! That's lower than a lot of in-state colleges here. I'm definitely thinking about doing their classes online if I happen to go into SLP because it will definitely save me a lot of cash. So if you do their online program, do you graduate with a BS in SLP?

Congrats on your amazing offers; what school offered you an assistanceship and a stipend?

And also, on a side note, what made you decide to want to go into SLP?

I haven't really thought of an area of focus yet because I'm still debating going into the field. I'm a little torn between going to school for SLP and for a Masters/PhD in Spanish; hopefully I will get a better idea when I job shadow. However, from what I've seen with SLP on youtube, the work looks very rewarding. My biggest area of interest (without knowing much about the field) is probably articulation disorders. I think it would also be really cool to work with bilingual children since I'm fluent in Spanish

I'm really interested in how bilingual children learn to speak and read.

But working with children with autism and other disorders seems interesting as well.

Oops, didn't see your reply. Sorry for the delay!

Bilingualism is a growing area of the SLP world and research in that area is growing, if you're interested in the research side at all. There's lots of cool stuff looking at both simultaneous and consecutive L2 learners, usually working with little kids, but there's also really cool research in bilingual aphasia, working with bilingual adults who have suffered a brain injury.

Beyond research, as a bilingual clinician I've heard you can make as much as 10k/year more than a monolingual clinician if you're in an area with high demand. Ethically, it's best to provide therapy to people in their native language and with the Spanish speaking population in this country growing, the need for bilingual SLPs is huge! Every time I tell someone I'm bilingual in Spanish they pretty much tell me it will get me my pick of virtually any job I want. I'm sure that's a stretch but it's definitely a bonus in this economy to know your chances of employment are very high.

As far as how I decided on SLP, it was kind of by accident. I started as a Spanish literature major because I'd always enjoyed Spanish classes and it came very easy to me. I just never really saw myself as a teacher. I started getting into Spanish linguistics in my elective courses and found it very interesting, so I added a linguistics major. I liked it, but still didn't see how I wanted to apply any of it, as I didn't see myself pursuing a PhD in linguistics. Some of my LING classes were crosslisted with the Speech, Language, and Hearing Sciences (SLHS) department so a lot of my classmates were SLHS majors. I started looking into it and it was kind of that "ah-ha" moment. I could really see myself working in that field. So I added SLHS as a third major (they had a lot of crossover and I liked all of them so I figured I'd keep them all, haha) and I haven't really looked back since. I got really involved in research and realized I particularly like the medical side and see myself working with adults with neurogenic communication disorders. I also see myself eventually getting either a PhD or a clinical doctorate at some point, but I feel like I need more experience to really narrow down the specifics of what I'd want to research for half a decade of my life

I got an assistantship offer from Towson University, a smaller school in Maryland (where I'm from originally) and a scholarship from University of Washington-Seattle, which is where I decided to go. I got accepted to their medical track which is exactly what I'd like to do so it was pretty much a no-brainer after I got accepted. One of their professors works in the area that I think I'm leaning most toward if I do a PhD (Parkinson's disease) so it was a really good fit for me all around.

SLP is a great field with pretty much limitless job possibilities. People work in schools, hospitals, home health, early intervention, private practice, traveling positions, skilled nursing facilities, etc. etc. treating everything from people with autism or articulation/language/fluency disorders, to people who have had strokes or traumatic brain injuries, individuals with hearing loss, accent modification, swallowing/feeding disorders, etc. There is also the opportunity to work in research or to pursue a PhD and go into academia (there is a HUGE lack of PhDs in the field so the job prospects are actually not bad compared to job placement rates in other fields in academia, from what I've heard). A clinical doctorate sets you up to be a clinical supervisor in a university, or can give you leg up to a director/managerial position in a hospital. There are so many facets this degree sets you up for, which is really appealing to me. If I ever get bored and need a change in life, I can work in a different little subfield and it's like a whole new job

Good luck with your decision!! Feel free to send me a private message at any point if you have any questions about SLP now or down the road, I'm happy to help if I can.