Is it fine to get a LOR from a professor gave you a B?

[warbrain]

I just took a class I enjoyed a lot, and would like to ask the professor for a recommendation. The only problem is that I'm going to get a B in this class. I'm personally fine with it, since I feel like I did my best, I understood the material really well, and this professor is one I know well. I only got the B because there's so many really smart people taking the class (basically it's a math class full of Putnam HM's), and the professor grades on a harsh curve, so a few stupid mistakes can be a problem. What I'm afraid of is that admissions committees will be confused at why I would ask a professor who gave a B to write a recommendation. I have other professors whose classes I got A's in I could ask, but I don't think they know me or my interests nearly as well as this one.

[kaykaykay]

The readers will be confused if you get a bad recommendation, which may not be your case. Ask your professor directly whether he could give you a strong letter despite the B. Some professors do and explain as you did that the curve was harsh and you did quite well. But some professors give good recommendation letters only to students who got an A.

[annieca]

I've never heard of a professor only giving good LORs to the A students. That just seems ridiculous. At my school we do the A, AB, B, BC kind of thing so it's really hard to get an A in some classes. In saying that, I think professors understand not everyone can get an A and people who get B's might work just as hard (if not harder) for their grades as others in the class.

I say go for it, but as Kay mentioned, make sure that the professor can emphasize how hard you worked.

[TakeruK]

The prof might also actually include other useful information about the course not evident in the transcript, such as "Student X scored a B in my class and ranked 5th out of 30 in this year's class, but he/she would be in the top 10th percentile of all my students I ever taught in this class" (just an example). So, a letter would be able to explain a harsh curve or other abnormalities. Definitely ask the prof's opinion on using him/her as a reference (i.e. whether they would be able to write a strong LOR).

However, that said, the main issue that admissions committees might flag is that you have a LOR from a prof who you took just one (so it seems) course with. Usually, you want your LORs to come from research supervisors, but many students have trouble finding 3 supervisors, so it is probably okay to have a 3rd LOR be from a course. In my opinion, the best LORs from a course have some or all of these qualities:

- the prof has taught many students

- the prof has taught you over several courses

- the prof teaches core course(s) for your program / program you are applying to

- the prof can make a strong statement about your performance, aptitude and work ethic compared to your peers

I don't know your situation, so I can't say whether this prof will be your best choice or not! But hopefully what I said will help you decide that for yourself (or decide that I'm full of it and ignore this )

[emmm]

Whenever you are looking for letters of reference, you should ask to meet with your professors in person to discuss your plans and get their input. Don't be afraid to ask if your prof can write you a strong letter. If the course was not in your main area of study, that can be useful information -- you challenged yourself and did well in spite of competing with more experienced students. You want someone who can discuss your strengths. If this professor fits the bill, he should be happy to meet with you and help you strategize. Applying to graduate programs can be tricky, and he may have useful information that he can share with you. At the very least, however, you should be able to explain to him why you think he might be a better reference than someone who gaave you an A.

[warbrain]

- the prof can make a strong statement about your performance, aptitude and work ethic compared to your peers

This last one is the one I'm most worried about I guess. I will be taking another course with this professor next semester, which I should hopefully do better in, and both courses are relevant to my interests. But the problem is that most of the students that take classes or do research with this professor are very smart. I think I ended up in the bottom half of this class actually, even though I feel like I understood most of the material very well. This is a math class, and I'm pretty sure that about 80-90% of the students in this class have gotten at least top 500 in the country on the Putnam, a math contest, just to put things in perspective. Does this type of information make a difference in terms of recommendations? And I'll definitely talk to my professor about what he thinks.

Edited May 17, 2012 by warbrain

[TakeruK]

This last one is the one I'm most worried about I guess. I will be taking another course with this professor next semester, which I should hopefully do better in, and both courses are relevant to my interests. But the problem is that most of the students that take classes or do research with this professor are very smart. I think I ended up in the bottom half of this class actually, even though I feel like I understood most of the material very well. This is a math class, and I'm pretty sure that about 80-90% of the students in this class have gotten at least top 500 in the country on the Putnam, a math contest, just to put things in perspective. Does this type of information make a difference in terms of recommendations? And I'll definitely talk to my professor about what he thinks.

Unfortunately, I think that your ranking compared to not only students in your current class, but all students this prof ever taught, is the most important thing in a LOR from a prof you took a course with. Even for a prof you did research with, the LOR would typically make a statement like "This student is in the top X percentile of all students I have ever worked with", or something like that. I've seen some LORs where the school wants the prof to fill out a fill boxes before actually writing a normal letter. These boxes generally ask the writer to rank the student in several skills such as innovation, communication, research potential etc. and the boxes to tick off are generally Top 1%, Top 5%, Top 10%, Top 50%.

If you are asking about the Putnam ranking though, I don't know if that's very important. I saw in another thread that a math grad student said it's not important.

So you should definitely talk to the prof about this. He/She would be able to confirm if this year's class was especially bright, so that while they might not be able to say you are in the top X percent of this year's class, you might still rank favourably amongst a more typical class.

I don't want to discourage you, but ideally, a LOR should say more than just "student did well in the course and works hard" and that you're a good person etc. This doesn't provide much more information than your transcript. It's not like a job application where reference letters are used to confirm that you are a good worker -- these LORs are used "competitively" and you want them to show that you are not only a good worker, but a better student than other people who are applying. So you really do want them to at least say you are in the top 50% of students they've taught.

However, you said that this prof works with/teaches many bright students so being in the top 50% of this pool is probably pretty good still. The prof might be pretty well known -- that could count for more than a glowing LOR from an unknown prof. And it will be a stronger LOR once you have taken 2 courses with the prof.

Again, I don't want to say that this LOR won't be good enough -- I don't know all the details, and I don't want to come off as elitist because I know it's really hard to get great LORs. It sounds like this LOR could be pretty good but if you have another option that fits better, maybe you should consider that too!

Finally, I didn't send the same LORs to all the schools I applied to. My research related LORs went to all the schools, but I chose my course-releated LORs to fit each school. For example, I chose one LOR writer because they are an alumni of that school, have collaborators in the school, or have had former students that they can compare me favourably to attending that school. Most of this information I only found out when asking (I sent the list of schools to the person and asked if they thought I could benefit from a letter from them).

EDIT: PS -- unless you know for sure how you ranked, after talking to the prof you might find out that you did better than you thought! So you might not have anything to worry about

Edited May 17, 2012 by TakeruK