Institutional Research Degrees

[sassywalrus]

Hi Everyone!

I couldn't find a thread talking about M.S.Ed. or Ph.D. programs pertaining to those who would like to work in institutional research. I currently work in institutional research and love it, but I'm coming to the realization I'll need a master's in something (it really can be in anything) to advance my career in the field. I would obviously like a degree in something that would help me in my everyday life at work so I was thinking statistics, but then I found the Research, Measurement, and Evaluation degree from the University of Miami and that got me thinking about getting a degree from a School of Education. I found a few other schools that have similar degrees (UCLA, UPenn) and it seems like a perfect combination of statistics and applied research.

I was wondering if anyone is in or knows anyone in any of these programs? Do you/they like it?

Most Education forums/threads are mostly geared toward teaching or other programs so any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[ZeChocMoose]

Having worked in IR before heading to my PhD, I will offer my insight. You'll probably be better served in an applied statistics master's program. It could be in a School of Education but you can also look in other social sciences such as psychology, sociology, and economics. I wouldn't recommend a straight statistics program just because they are usually more interested in theory and/or methods that you will not utilize as an IR professional. If you are interested in more than statistics but measurement and evaluation, I would lean more towards a program in education or psychology. I would also ask IR professionals in your area what they recommend. Be really careful which one you select though. Unfortunately, method programs vary widely in their quality and depth.

PhD programs are another kettle of fish. It is more about what you want to research than anything else. It sounds like you want a credential and some work-related skills so I would start with the master's first.

[sassywalrus]

Thanks for the advice! Nice to see someone else who worked in IR.

Agreed about the applied statistics. I have a B.A. in Economics where I focused mainly in statistics/econometrics, but most people think of finance (aside from 2 intro classes we pretty much never focused on money in any of my courses) when they see my degree, so I would like a masters that will signal to employers that I know how to do statistics. Plus I like statistics and would like to learn more.

I'm a little skeptical of getting an M.Ed. because I don't want to pigeonhole myself into IR, my original goal was to do market research, the skillset is the same. I feel like the UMiami degree is applied statistics in disguise because all of the courses seem like straight statistics and in the FAQ they basically say with this degree you can go into data analysis or market research in any field in the private and public sector.

I like working with surveys and focus groups too so I definitely need to do some digging for programs that would help me.

[Dizzi]

I was also in IR before my program, and based on the hires we made during that time, I'd say actual tangible skills are more important than any degree. Having experience producing analyses and presentations with Excel, PowerPoint, some major statistical package, and some data management skills (like SQL) were the biggest factors for us.

That said, about a third or maybe a half of our folks had an Ed.M. in Higher Education. I actually think that had a lot to do with our applicant pool, though.

In defense of a more "general" stats program, "statistics" isn't really the same across all fields, since different methods are prevalent in different industries. Psychometricians might do a lot of principal components and factor analysis, for example, while it's pretty rare to find economists doing that - instrumental variables and regression discontinuity seem to be in vogue these days in economics, and it's hard to imagine finding that in many branches of Psych. It seems like biostatisticians and I guess sociologists have methods that aren't widely used elsewhere, too. But each method carries its own particular inference problems, model assumptions, etc.

A more general program should give you a more solid theoretical foundation than any specific discipline, which should help you to understand and employ methods you've never used before. Additionally, a good stats master's program usually requires at least some coursework where you apply methods to real-world problems. Of course, the tradeoff is that you'll be less familiar with the "substantive" problems of any specific field. Just food for thought...

[ZeChocMoose]

I would like a masters that will signal to employers that I know how to do statistics. Plus I like statistics and would like to learn more.

I like working with surveys and focus groups too so I definitely need to do some digging for programs that would help me.

Do you know what type of statistical models you want to learn? If you do that could be really helpful as Dizzi mentioned that different disciplines have different methods. Given your background, I would look into econometrics master's as well. If you hope to eventually transition into market research, I would look to see what type of degrees they typically have. I assume some of them are more into programming and mining the data, but I could be wrong.

If you decide to go into a statistics dept to get the master's-- I assume you'll run into particular math prereqs (calculus III, linear algebra, probability, etc) that they will want to see or you'll need to take during your first year. I don't particularly know a lot of statistics departments that do the applied side very well. Sometimes their applied stats master's are just a random collection of courses that don't necessarily get at the applied aspect really well.

Are you planning to leave your job and attend full-time? If not, you might want to look at local programs and see whether your university can pay for some or all of the tuition. It is not uncommon to see master's students in the education statistics, evaluation, and measurement programs attending part-time.

[sassywalrus]

@Dizzi - Thanks for the input. I agree about the actual skills. With my Economics degree I learned STATA pretty well, and I've always been an advanced Excel user. Sometimes I think the current age/technology gap between employer and potential employee is too great. For example, I'm young enough to have used Excel/Word/PowerPoint/Internet regularly since Middle School, so using those programs is like second nature to me; some employers ask for specific examples and times where I have learned certain basic skills and it's hard for me to convey I have pretty much known how to use these programs for my entire life. Or maybe I just have a hard time explaining myself in interviews (that would explain why it took me so long to find a job...). I picked up SPSS and Business Objects in a few days at my current position. I love learning new computer programs and statistical packages.

I see what you're saying about the different types of methods used in different fields. I think I might have to spend more time really focusing on the career I would like and matching the needs of the career to a grad program. I think graduating into the horrible job market in 2010 has made me terrified of focusing on one specific career though, just in case things don't get better and I need to change career paths.

@ZeChocMoose - I'm not sure. Econometrics programs seem really internesting but don't seem to be as plentiful as regular Economics programs, but again I need to do more research on what's out there. One of the reasons the RME program seemed so appealing was that it doesn't require any additional undergrad courses. Like you said, to even apply to a lot of the stat programs I've looked at I would need to take about 5 additional classes (Calc II & III, Linear Algebra, etc) before I could even apply.

In terms of part time vs full time, it depends. I live in an area with A LOT of colleges and universities so if I find something around here I would probably do it part time and try to have my employer pay for it. If I found a program that seemed really great that I would have to move to, I would be willing to take a year off to complete it. In terms of time, I would rather have a masters in 2-3 semesters of full time study than spread it out over 3-5 years.

I should also mention that the job I have now is not definite. I was hired in January to fill a vacancy until the summer, and it is possible my position will end soon. Since I like working in IR though and most departments require/desire an advanced degree I feel like maybe an RME degree could be the way to go to stay in the field.

[ZeChocMoose]

I should also mention that the job I have now is not definite. I was hired in January to fill a vacancy until the summer, and it is possible my position will end soon. Since I like working in IR though and most departments require/desire an advanced degree I feel like maybe an RME degree could be the way to go to stay in the field.

I think a RME degree would serve you well in the IR field. At my former office, we always looked favorably on people who had that skill set -or- that specific degree. It's not impossible to get a full-time, permanent job in IR w/o the master's, but I agree that it is a bit tricky. Usually the people who do it have had data analysis experience in a previous job. That being said, there has only been one person in my office hired with just a bachelor's degree in the last 5 years or so. When I left, there were a lot more PhD recipients in the application pool to replace me, but that could also be a function of the economy and living in a highly educated area.

All the RME programs that I looked into (granted for a PhD) focused on K - 12 issues. You might want to go to a RME program that also has a higher ed program so you can take some higher ed classes as electives. It's important to learn some content area as well especially when you are faced with designing research projects for particular areas in the university. I know that I have had to follow back on my higher ed knowledge as well as my methods expertise while working in IR.

I don't know how the financing structure for master's programs in RME work-- but I imagine (or at least I hope) that some of them fund their master's students. I do agree with you that attending the program full-time would be better.

[Dizzi]

@Dizzi - Thanks for the input. I agree about the actual skills. With my Economics degree I learned STATA pretty well, and I've always been an advanced Excel user. Sometimes I think the current age/technology gap between employer and potential employee is too great. For example, I'm young enough to have used Excel/Word/PowerPoint/Internet regularly since Middle School, so using those programs is like second nature to me; some employers ask for specific examples and times where I have learned certain basic skills and it's hard for me to convey I have pretty much known how to use these programs for my entire life. Or maybe I just have a hard time explaining myself in interviews (that would explain why it took me so long to find a job...). I picked up SPSS and Business Objects in a few days at my current position. I love learning new computer programs and statistical packages.

I see what you're saying about the different types of methods used in different fields. I think I might have to spend more time really focusing on the career I would like and matching the needs of the career to a grad program. I think graduating into the horrible job market in 2010 has made me terrified of focusing on one specific career though, just in case things don't get better and I need to change career paths.

If you're a decent Stata programmer and are comfortable with the Office stuff, I think you're already a bit ahead of the game compared to most people entering these programs.

I know that some people enter these types of programs with practically zero math background (that they can remember, anyway) beyond high school. Given your economics & econometrics background (which I assume includes at least multivariable calc?), I'd keep an eye out for programs that give you the flexibility to take more advanced quant courses than their typical first-years.

[sassywalrus]

*2 months later*

Agreed with the computer bit, a lot of the programs I have looked at seem to imply you could have a BA in basketweaving and still get in (in terms of math knowledge). This leads me to believe I would have an advantage if I actually get into a program since everything would be more of a review, or at least build upon things I already know.

I think the Miami program appeals to me the most since they seemed to emphasize learning new computer skills and holding most of their classes in computer labs. After being in the workplace I know those skills are definitely what IR departments love.