Help with Historical Linguistics Programs?

[EJD]

Hello!

I need some help…

I just graduated from UNC Asheville in May with a degree in Classics, concentration in Latin and Greek literature. I’m taking a year off to earn money and to apply to graduate schools, as I’d really like to continue my studies in the subject. I have a strong interest in historical linguistics and the development of ancient languages, and for graduate school, I would like to enter into this field. While I suppose I would be strongest in Latin and Greek, I would love to study more than these two languages, such as Old English, Old Norse, Sanskrit – near anything, actually. What programs might I look into or apply to for this subject field? One of my professors has worked with me on starting the search process, and she has recommended Cornell, UCLA, Austin Texas, and University of Chicago. I’d like to apply to these places, but also smaller schools, or schools that are easier to get in to. Does anyone have any recommendations for smaller schools? In addition, as I’ve been looking at programs, I am uncertain whether to apply to the Classics programs, or to the Linguistics programs, in order to study historical linguistics and the development of ancient languages. At several places, the two programs seem to overlap – you can study historical linguistics in the Classics department, or the Linguistics department. Should I go for the Classics programs, or the Linguistics programs instead?

I’m also worried about being able to get in to any of the places I apply, as they’re great and competitive schools. I graduated with a 3.89 GPA, and received A’s or A-‘s in all of my Classics courses. I took a History of the English Language class, which I really enjoyed, and earned an A in it. I was one of the two Classics peer tutors since my freshman year. My senior year, I wrote a 36-page thesis on literary self-defense in satirical Roman authors. I think I could get several great recommendations from my teachers. I have signed up to take the GRE in July, and I am studying for it, so hopefully I’ll do well.

However, on the negative side, I have not had any German, and only one semester of French (I’m looking into taking courses at nearby schools, but there is not much available, at least at the moment; plus I’m working, so I can’t do much outside weekends). My professor stated that my Greek experience may look weak on my applications, as I’ve only had two and a half years of upper-level Greek courses. She recommended earning a post-bacc degree, but I wasn’t terribly fond of the idea because of the amount of time it would take, but if I must earn a post-bacc in order to get in to graduate school anywhere, I’ll do so.

Sorry for the long post! Any recommendations, for schools, programs, areas of study? Any chances I might get in anywhere? All advice is amazingly helpful! Thank you!

[Talmid]

"Post-bacc degree," really? Post-baccs are for those lacking undergraduate classics degrees. Your background looks quite fine to get you wherever you'd like to go. Keep up the good work!

[Ardea]

I just sent you a rather lengthy message.

[latinist]

G'day, I am also interested in historical linguistics, particularly Latin and Greek. What exactly does an upper-level Greek course consist of? I am from Australia and I am hard put to think of many postgrad classicists with two and a half years of advanced Greek and more extensive learning in Latin and other languages.

[EJD]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies, and notes for those who sent them! They have definitely helped me. Latinist, I guess by 'upper-level' I do mean advanced Greek - I took five semesters (Plato, Attic Orators, Tragedy, Homer, and New Testament). I took three semesters of intro Greek, as well. I think I'm a bit more solid in my Latin studies, though!

In other news, does anyone know a good score on the GRE to aim for? My practice book states a '162 score is very competitive.' I haven't studied math in some time, either, yikes!

[rkg2012]

On 6/10/2012 at 9:19 AM, Talmid said:

"Post-bacc degree," really? Post-baccs are for those lacking undergraduate classics degrees. Your background looks quite fine to get you wherever you'd like to go. Keep up the good work!

Post-baccs are not just for those "lacking undergraduate classics degrees." Personally, I did one because I chickened out of applying my senior year. I had plenty of both languages on paper, but I needed more for my confidence. Furthermore, it was an opportunity to take other classes that could supplement my application. Several students boosted their modern languages or took graduate level courses.

Anyway, I'm not a historical linguist, but here's my $0.02: Look at the requirements and flexibility of the Linguistics and Classics programs and see which is better suited to what you want to do and what classes you want to be able to take. Your ancient languages don't sound like they will put you at a disadvantage. How much linguistics have you done? Do you have enough coursework there to be competitive to Linguistics programs. If your thesis will be your writing sample, to which program does it cater? Also, where do you want to end up? Although the title of your degree will not dictate what departments you can get hired in later, it will play a role.

As for other languages, I didn't have a whole lot (French in middle school and an academic reading German course this year), but I wouldn't be surprised if they are more important to linguists (I have no idea though). If you want to learn other ancient languages, pick schools that offer them. Few people learn Sanskrit, for example, at the undergraduate level, so you shouldn't be at a disadvantage there, or at least not much of one. Most Classics programs should have enough flexibility to let you take another language, but I don't know about more than one. It might be worth inquiring with profs in the Classics departments.

GRE scores are honestly not super important so long as you don't bomb it. Most people seem to say 90%ile, but don't know what that is on the new scale. Obviously try to do well, but your personal statement, writing sample, and recommendations will carry a lot more weight.

Overall, I would recommend applying to PhDs this fall. I think you have a shot, but remember that all of the programs are incredibly competitive. There aren't really easy schools to get into, and you shouldn't want that anyway, since those programs would leave you with less employment options. That being said, I'm not an advocate of the idea that it's Ivy or nothing. You should probably also look into MA or post-bacc programs as a back up. I don't know about linguistics, but there are certainly funded classics MAs (WashU, Arizona, Vanderbilt, to name a few). I know Penn's post-bacc let's you take any regular course at a reduced price. Post-baccs are NOT degree programs though. Some are certificate programs, but they are not the same as an MA. They are usually less time than an MA though. Penn is one year unless you want to stay for two (which a couple people do every year). Unfortunately, the only funding you can get is government loans.

Sorry this got so lengthy, but I hope it helps.

[latinist]

I took five semesters (Plato, Attic Orators, Tragedy, Homer, and New Testament). I took three semesters of intro Greek, as well. I think I'm a bit more solid in my Latin studies, though!

That does't sound like something to turn your nose up to. There are quite a number of Australians I know of with less Greek than that after finishing masters who were still accepted into Oxbridge and Ivy league universities to do their PhDs.

[EJD]

Hi rkg, thank you for your post!

Regarding post-bac, depending on how my applications for MAs/PhDs fall this year and where I get in, I'll definitely consider that route. It would be nice to get in more modern languages, or more Classics courses, which would strengthen my applications in the future.

From what I've seen, it seems as though the Linguistics programs are more pertinent to my interests, as they allow students to delve into a variety of languages and cultures, which is what my ideal would be. But I'll definitely see if some Classics programs allow students to study several other languages - a few seemed to offer Etruscan, Hebrew, Eastern languages, and so on, which would be great, although I'd love to go beyond those, even. The only Linguistics-oriented class my college offered was History of the English Language, which I took and thoroughly enjoyed, and I did well in. I plan to get a recommendation from the teacher who taught it. I took a few other literature courses, but nothing else exactly Linguistics-focused.

My writing sample would probably be more aimed at Classics, however, as I did my thesis on Roman satirists, although I did try to trace the development of and changes in their writing throughout the centuries and from writer to writer. But it is probably not as Linguistics-oriented as it could be. My professor recommended taking a ten-page portion of the thesis and working it up. This paper is probably the closest to a publishable piece I have, and it would demonstrate my strengths in my major, but I do have a few papers from my History of the English Language class, and I did write a fourteen-page paper for New Testament Greek that focused on language use and tone. Would one of these choices or something else be better as a writing sample?

I would be more than happy to apply for an MA program (one person who noted me suggested Georgia, which seemed like a very good choice) that would prepare me for a PhD program somewhere else, such as UCLA or Cornell. This may be the best route for me at the moment. Thank you for your advice!

And thanks to everyone who's replied to me so far; you've helped me a whole lot!

Edit: @Latinist, ah, really? I did not realize that. Good to know! Cornell, I think, suggested three years of advanced Greek; my professor just suggested a class or two more may help!

Edited June 17, 2012 by EJD

[latinist]

Obviously the level of competition varies each year and individual programs will be more selective than others. The Latin and Greek Linguistics program at Cornell may require more of applicants. You can look at graduate profiles (and their CVs on linkedin) to gauge what level of language attainment the students had when they applied. One of the students listed there is in fact originally from my university and took Beginners Greek in her MA before going to Cornell, which probably reflects the flexibility of their language requirements.

The actual language requirements of the linguistics specialisation are unclear to me. It says students should have reached an advanced level in both languages (which is usually three years of each). You however have four years of Greek, or doesn't Cornell recognise beginners Greek?

[latinist]

Also, with UCLA, you have several options. There is a classics PhD program, an indo-European program and a separate linguistics program and applied linguistics program. Be careful that you match the department you apply to. The IE program which allows you to study quite a number of Indo-European languages is likely the best fit but the classics program allows you to take courses from the IE program too. Someone I studied linguistics with is currently undertaking a PhD in the linguistics program and it is extremely geared towards phonology and syntax and, something I find very curious, is cut off from applied linguistics (i.e. pragmatics, language learning and teaching, stylistics, discourse analysis, etc). The linguistics program definitely expects the equivalent of a major in linguistics and may not be the best place for you to apply.

[EJD]

Latinist, thanks for the info! I was wondering how Cornell counted years of Latin or Greek myself, since I did have three semesters of intro Greek, before my five of advanced Greek. It would be great if they counted both, but I'm unsure. My professor seemed to imply they did not.

For IE at UCLA, the website states that they expected a degree in an Indo-European language, such as Classics, or Linguistics (http://www.pies.ucla.edu/). But the study of phonology and syntax would probably be much easier to handle with a Linguistics degree!

I also see that Chapel Hill seems to have a historical linguistics program (http://www.unc.edu/gradrecord/programs/linguistics.html), but I've heard from a few folks their Classics grad program isn't the best.

[heliogabalus]

UNC has traditionally been regarded as one of the top Classics programs in the country.

[latinist]

Latinist, thanks for the info! I was wondering how Cornell counted years of Latin or Greek myself, since I did have three semesters of intro Greek, before my five of advanced Greek. It would be great if they counted both, but I'm unsure. My professor seemed to imply they did not.

Three years is obviously an arbitrary measure. What one university covers in a semester may significantly vary from another university. For example, an advanced Latin course at my university may be Georgics 1-2 or Horace Epistles 1, an advanced Greek course may be Odyssey 5-8. I know that many universities in Australia and America cover much more in a semester and some less. Furthermore, one student may demonstrate a greater language aptitude and attain fluency ahead of their class and, even with less study, may excel those students who have undertaken three years. I am sure that those reviewing applications will have to consider the amount of reading each semester involves and the language aptitude of the applicant. It's the whole package. As I said, there are some graduate students at Cornell with less than three years preparation in one classical language.

[EJD]

At helio - ah, okay, I am sure it is good. I've heard different things from different people. Maybe I was thinking of a different place, even!

At latinist - that makes a lot of sense! I'll keep that in mind as I write my applications. It's good to know it's a little less strict than appears on the surface, at least!