was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Was just laid off with no notice and no compensation, in complete violation of the WARN act. Apparently when your company is suffering you don't have to be humane. Anyone know a good lawyer in the Austin, TX area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Was just laid off with no notice and no compensation, in complete violation of the WARN act. Apparently when your company is suffering you don't have to be humane. Anyone know a good lawyer in the Austin, TX area? That's pretty terrible. How did it violate the Warn Act? Was it a mass layoff and you under a union? If so then they can act on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 It was a 35% company wide RIF. I'm an engineer so I'm not in any union. My understanding is that mass layoffs like this require 60 days notice according to the WARN act. Apparently the company is claiming that because of their economic situation, they don't have to give us notice. They will probably file bankruptcy any day now, but the exiting CEO was just given a million dollars when he was "laid off." I'm not super familiar with the law, but I do feel like this is completely unjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfuga0 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Is Texas an at-will work state? If so, you'll probably have a really hard time getting an actionable suit going. Sorry to be a downer, but this just happened to me, too. It sucks. Any chance you are starting school in the fall and can collect unemployment until then? My condolences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miratrix Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Oh dear. Don't they have to give you some kind of severance, at least? I'm sorry to hear this, hope the admissions decisions give you a really good option for next year at least.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Is Texas an at-will work state? If so, you'll probably have a really hard time getting an actionable suit going. Sorry to be a downer, but this just happened to me, too. It sucks. Any chance you are starting school in the fall and can collect unemployment until then? My condolences. Yes, I'll be starting school in the fall, so I can probably collect unemployment for most of the period. However I'll have to look for a job while collecting unemployment, or it stops coming. I can't justifiably take a job for 6 months, I just wouldn't feel right. Texas is an at-will work state, but the WARN Act supersedes that in mass layoffs, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Oh dear. Don't they have to give you some kind of severance, at least? I'm sorry to hear this, hope the admissions decisions give you a really good option for next year at least.... All I got was my earned pay and compensation for my accrued vacation. I wish my FAFSA was taken from this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnlikelyGrad Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It was a 35% company wide RIF. I'm an engineer so I'm not in any union. My understanding is that mass layoffs like this require 60 days notice according to the WARN act. Apparently the company is claiming that because of their economic situation, they don't have to give us notice. Is this a Texas law? My husband has been canned several times, and they've never given him more than 3 hours notice. :x The first time it happened, they had a company-wide meeting (smaller company, ~ 150 people) and said, "We are going to have a RIF. Will the following people remain behind when the meeting is over." It was...humiliating, to say the least. Poor hubby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Is this a Texas law? My husband has been canned several times, and they've never given him more than 3 hours notice. :x The first time it happened, they had a company-wide meeting (smaller company, ~ 150 people) and said, "We are going to have a RIF. Will the following people remain behind when the meeting is over." It was...humiliating, to say the least. Poor hubby. Its a federal law. The layoff has to be at least a certain size in order for it to qualify under the warn act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There are several exceptions to the Warn Act. You may want to check DOL's website to be sure your company did not fall under them, and to see whether it supersedes any state law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 It is really vague, like all things lawyerly: (1) Faltering company. This exception, to be narrowly construed, covers situations where a company has sought new capital, or business in order to stay open and where giving notice would ruin the opportunity to get the new capital or business and applies only to plant closings; (2) Unforeseeable business circumstances. This exception applies to closings and layoffs that are caused by business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time notice would otherwise have been required; and (3) Natural disaster. This applies where a closing or layoff is the direct result of a natural disaster, such as a flood, earthquake, drought or storm. If 1 is broadly construed, I could see it as a possible out for them, but it explicitly says narrowly construed. Number 2 and 3 certainly should not qualify. We've known this was coming for several months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfuga0 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Try posting at the LegalMatch discussion threads. Some lawyerly types haunt there and usually can give you decent advice, although they do tend to be fairly pessimistic. I, too, will be collecting unemployment (again, for the fourth time in three years) until I start school in August. Yes, you have to be looking for a job. You don't HAVE to take a job, however. And there are lots of temp services, especially now that companies have laid off workers and don't/can't hire full-time people with full-time benefits. If you do get an interview, just either a)be honest and say you are leaving in August or don't and know that this company, like all others, will find someone very quickly to replace you. Another option is to freelance if you have any skills that lend themselves to that type of work. Could you edit engineering theses and dissertations? Can you consult for some company in Austin that needs an engineering type person? Why not try working at Trader Joe's for six months? My brother did that and thinks it might have been a better education than his grad degree from MIT. The goal is to stay busy and collect money for six months, not necessarily to build a career. Give yourself a week to be angry and then decide if you can actually pursue legal action. If you can, awesome. Good luck. If not, find something -- anything -- that will fill your time and pay your rent until August and focus on the positive: YOU got into grad school! YOU will eventually get tenure and never get fired again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonights Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Oh, my god. I have absolutely no knowledgeable advice, but I just wanted to say I'm really sorry that this happened to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthcat Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I agree with what mrfuga said about temping. It may seem degrading if you've been fully employed, but there are good opportunities out there. I got hired in November for a full-time temp contract paying more than I could make in many full-time jobs. Even with a patchwork of one-day jobs, you can make out pretty well. Being registered with a temp agency means you'll be able to say you are continually looking for work while you collect unemployment, and might even get you some if you choose to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 I agree with what mrfuga said about temping. It may seem degrading if you've been fully employed, but there are good opportunities out there. I got hired in November for a full-time temp contract paying more than I could make in many full-time jobs. Even with a patchwork of one-day jobs, you can make out pretty well. Being registered with a temp agency means you'll be able to say you are continually looking for work while you collect unemployment, and might even get you some if you choose to take it. That is probably what I'm going to do. I'm also going to move back home. Fortunately I live with a friend so I don't have to worry about subleasing or anything like that. Also, thanks to you all for your kind words. And let this be a lesson to all of us. NEVER tell your employer about your future plans until the absolute last minute. People who didn't know I was going back to school were absolutely shocked to hear I was chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 That is probably what I'm going to do. I'm also going to move back home. Fortunately I live with a friend so I don't have to worry about subleasing or anything like that. Also, thanks to you all for your kind words. Good luck either way. Many of us here have been affected by this financial storm, and it is not easy to be the subject of a layoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apghuman Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I am in the same boat, only my boat is a lot smaller than yours :cry: I am in India, got laid off in the 3rd wave, seems the company does something end of each quarter, 25% of my department. I totally agree with what the poster mentioned about not telling your plans at your workplace, I naively did, even when I really dont have any backups for school this fall ( I applied only to 2 places). In hindsight I think my manager knew this was on the cards for more than 1.5 months before the cut and deliberately did not give work to me. This was my first job and I am packing to go home today, could'nt pay the rent any longer, I cannot begin to tell you how humiliating this is specially since the others who joined from my college are still working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miratrix Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'm so sorry. I hope something good works out for you next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornell07 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yes, I'll be starting school in the fall, so I can probably collect unemployment for most of the period. However I'll have to look for a job while collecting unemployment, or it stops coming. I can't justifiably take a job for 6 months, I just wouldn't feel right. Texas is an at-will work state, but the WARN Act supersedes that in mass layoffs, doesn't it? In New York, the law is that you cannot apply for unemployment if you have been accepted to a graduate program. Otherwise, people might just coast from now until August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polumetis23 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Sorry to hear about your layoff, but your response to it and some of the answers you've received kind of demonstrate how clueless most people on this site are about the realities of the working world. If Texas is an at-will state (and it sounds like it is), the answer is NO: they don't have to give you notice, severance, or any reason for dismissal, nada. All the power pretty much lies with your employer to do as they please whenever they please and for whatever reason. Collect your unemployment and get on with it. Be thankful you're at least eligible for that because most graduating senior who've never held a job and who don't get into graduate school won't even have that to fall back on. There are exceptions to the WARN act, and it sounds like your employer can probably claim the economic crisis as unforseeable business circumstances (or even force majeure, metaphorically speaking). And of course never tell your employer what your plans are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfuga0 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm not sure what's clueless about saying that if Texas is at at-will state, then getting an actionable suit going would be difficult. It's not impossible: if the company did something illegal along the way (racial discrimination, sexual harassment, etc.) which we're not aware of, then the original poster may have a case. Unlikely, but possible. I work in an at-will state and currently have an EEOC case against my employer. Just because they can fire you at-will doesn't allow them to fire you because of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Not that this post sounds like that happened, but since we don't have the facts, you can never know. It costs nothing to post at LegalMatch and the advice they offer will probably say that nothing can be done. Nevertheless, it can soothe a troubled mind. Basically, when people get fired (and trust me, I get fired a lot and I've been in the real world longer than I care to mention) they want a little bit of time to rant and rave. It doesn't hurt anyone and this is a good forum to do it. It keeps your significant other/parents/roommates from wanting to kill you, at least So, original poster, go ahead and vent if you like. And bear in mind that you do have something fun to look forward to. Living with your parents may not be the most fun thing to be in the meantime, but you got in! Hooray! I'll have a celebratory drink on your honor tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was1984 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Sorry to hear about your layoff, but your response to it and some of the answers you've received kind of demonstrate how clueless most people on this site are about the realities of the working world. If Texas is an at-will state (and it sounds like it is), the answer is NO: they don't have to give you notice, severance, or any reason for dismissal, nada. All the power pretty much lies with your employer to do as they please whenever they please and for whatever reason. Collect your unemployment and get on with it. Be thankful you're at least eligible for that because most graduating senior who've never held a job and who don't get into graduate school won't even have that to fall back on. There are exceptions to the WARN act, and it sounds like your employer can probably claim the economic crisis as unforseeable business circumstances (or even force majeure, metaphorically speaking). And of course never tell your employer what your plans are! Well, I do apparently have a case. The WARN Act exceptions tend to be very narrowly construed and the burden of proof is on the employer. In any case, they are still required to give as much notice as they are able, and I'm certain that was much more than 0 days. The wheels are already in motion. I may not win the case, but I certainly have one. At-will state or not, federal law still applies and in mass layoffs and plant closings, the WARN Act is very much applicable. The case law for the WARN Act is very much stacked against the employer, and is full of judges broadly construing the law for the best benefit of the affected employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocosmicfish Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 That is probably what I'm going to do. I'm also going to move back home. Fortunately I live with a friend so I don't have to worry about subleasing or anything like that. Also, thanks to you all for your kind words. And let this be a lesson to all of us. NEVER tell your employer about your future plans until the absolute last minute. People who didn't know I was going back to school were absolutely shocked to hear I was chosen. You have my condolences - it is tough getting laid off. My second lay-off was 5 days before my daughter was born! You are dead right about being careful what you tell your employer - my wife was laid off a few years ago because her boss had to let someone go and knew she was looking at switching fields. Worked out well for her, but that was the deciding factor - if they have to let someone go they will usually pick the ones who are not going to be there in five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfuga0 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Wow! Good luck with your case! Sounds like your company got greedy and hoped no one would challenge them. It definitely takes courage and persistence to stand up to that. Best of luck and let us know how it all turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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