How competitive are GSPP, others?

[anxiouslywaiting]

So I've gathered that WWS is the most competitive of the programs discussed here, with a 10-15% acceptance or something like that. Kennedy is speculated to be somewhere in the mid to high 20%s, although may be a little lower with rise in apps this year. It seems Georgetown and SAIS are a little less competitive than HKS (just in terms of admit rate), while SIPA is a little less than those two (acceptance rate above 30%). But what about GSPP? I haven't heard much about that program in terms of how difficult it is to get in. I'm posting my stats below so anyone can comment on me specifically or just in general. We can also discuss other programs which i haven't listed of course.

My stats

3.75 GPA (Top 10 School, Ivy League, International Relations Major)

730 V 710 Q

Several internships with state dept, foreign policy think tanks, Obama campaign

Solid SOP and LORs

[anxiouslywaiting]

One other issue in terms of my admission at GSPP is that both my undergrad academic work and almost all of my work experiences are in IR, so I wonder if that would hurt me in terms of admission to a broader public policy program. Although I did work for the Obama campaign on domestic issues and did AmeriCorps...

[policy_applicant]

According to the website, GSPP had a 2008 entering class of 76 from 489 applications, putting their enrollment at 15.5% of total applicants. The big unknown, of course, is yield, i.e., what percent of accepted students actually enrolled. If GSPP's yield last year was 75%, their acceptance rate was 20%. If their yield was 60%, their acceptance rate was 25%. And so on...

From what I understand, GSPP likes students with high quant GRE scores and solid quant backgrounds. The average quant GRE for the 2008 entering class is 730.

It looks like your quant score is solid and the rest of your profile is impressive. I'd say you're chances are pretty good.

[policy_applicant]

I just found this incredibly helpful document: WWS Department Profile

So WWS's yield over the past few years has ranged from 62%-73%. I imagine GSPP's is a bit lower (since they're stingier with the funding).

[Cornell07]

So I've gathered that WWS is the most competitive of the programs discussed here, with a 10-15% acceptance or something like that. Kennedy is speculated to be somewhere in the mid to high 20%s, although may be a little lower with rise in apps this year. It seems Georgetown and SAIS are a little less competitive than HKS (just in terms of admit rate), while SIPA is a little less than those two (acceptance rate above 30%). But what about GSPP? I haven't heard much about that program in terms of how difficult it is to get in. I'm posting my stats below so anyone can comment on me specifically or just in general. We can also discuss other programs which i haven't listed of course.

My stats

3.75 GPA (Top 10 School, Ivy League, International Relations Major)

730 V 710 Q

Several internships with state dept, foreign policy think tanks, Obama campaign

Solid SOP and LORs

Where were you with the Obama campaign and in what role? I ran a field office in the Philly suburbs.

[younglions]

Wow, policy_applicant... thanks for the link to that great document. Perhaps I'm reading the document wrong, but it seems like WWS ranks their admits into a top 1/2 and a bottom 1/2. That's got to be tough to do when everyone who gets in is an amazing candidate. For last year, the yield on the top 1/2 was less than 50%.... where are these people going over Princeton? Who else offers aid packages that include full tuition plus a living stipend? Perhaps they do PhDs instead, or maybe their employer picks up part of their bill... or perhaps they just like other programs/locations more.

I'm guessing the yield rate for Berkeley is closer to 40-50%. The only reason why I could see it being higher is if most applicants applying to Berkeley are looking to work on the west coast. Here are some sample yields for other MPP/IR programs:

According to Petersons:

The yield for Harvard was 60% of the 28% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Chicago Harris was 33% of the 60% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Columbia SIPA (maybe just IA) was 46% of the 39% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Fletcher was 33% of the 34% of accepted applicants.

The yield for UCLA MPP is 30% of the 40% of accepted applicants.

[policy_applicant]

So Berkeley's acceptance rate is probably closer to 30%.

The number on the WWS document that really jumped out at me was the ~35% acceptance rate for US women, compared to a 15% acceptance rate overall. Any US women around here feeling better about their chances?

Also, "The yield for Chicago Harris was 33% of the 60% of accepted applicants." Seriously?

[anxiouslywaiting]

I worked in philly as well. intern on the scheduling staff at the pa HQ. which field office were you in? i may have helped to send some of the surrogates out to you!

[anxiouslywaiting]

wow, that 35% for US women sure does sound pretty nice right now! it's really interesting that they do a top half bottom half ranking of their own as well. that is probably for internal purposes to track how well they were doing among the top candidates. and i'd say if people are turning down WWS its either because of the location (Princeton is cute, but not really a happening place for a young professional, take it from me) or because they applied to jobs at the same time and received a good offer. i know several people who are doing that now, although this year it isn't too likely that they will be getting any job offers.

[younglions]

So Berkeley's acceptance rate is probably closer to 30%.

The number on the WWS document that really jumped out at me was the ~35% acceptance rate for US women, compared to a 15% acceptance rate overall. Any US women around here feeling better about their chances?

Also, "The yield for Chicago Harris was 33% of the 60% of accepted applicants." Seriously?

I'm reading the document differently. For US women, the acceptance rate last year was 16.6%; for international women, 10.8%; for all women, 15.2%. Sorry women.

[policy_applicant]

I'm reading the document differently. For US women, the acceptance rate last year was 16.6%; for international women, 10.8%; for all women, 15.2%. Sorry women.

Correct. Sorry to get your hopes up, ladies. I'm adding imaginary % symbols after the numbers.

[younglions]

On average, MPP programs are much easier to get accepted into than IR programs. That Chicago 60% doesn't seem too out of line with other MPP programs. Heinz is a little less than 50%, Columbia is 50%, Elliott is 64%, Duke is 52%, Cornell is 68%, and NYU is 61%. (All except Heinz are according to Petersons.) That's not to say any old Joe can apply to these programs and stand a good shot of acceptance. I think there is a lot of self-selection going on.

Nevertheless, I won't be looking at acceptances as my measure of admissions season success. If I get all acceptances but don't receive a single good offer, this admissions cycle will be a failure for me. (And I'll probably put off grad school until I've got the experience to submit an application deemed worthy of a nice aid offer.)

[pepper84]

According to Petersons:

The yield for Harvard was 60% of the 28% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Chicago Harris was 33% of the 60% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Columbia SIPA (maybe just IA) was 46% of the 39% of accepted applicants.

The yield for Fletcher was 33% of the 34% of accepted applicants.

The yield for UCLA MPP is 30% of the 40% of accepted applicants.

Younglions, where are you finding this information on Peterson's? Do you have to be a registered user? Do you have any info on NYU or Berkeley?

[anxiouslywaiting]

On average, MPP programs are much easier to get accepted into than IR programs. That Chicago 60% doesn't seem too out of line with other MPP programs. Heinz is a little less than 50%, Columbia is 50%, George Washington is 64%, Duke is 52%, Cornell is 68%, and NYU is 61%. (All except Heinz are according to Petersons.) That's not to say any old Joe can apply to these programs and stand a good shot of acceptance. I think there is a lot of self-selection going on.

Nevertheless, I won't be looking at acceptances as my measure of admissions season success. If I get all acceptances but don't receive a single good offer, this admissions cycle will be a failure for me. (And I'll probably put off grad school until I've got the experience to submit an application deemed worthy of a nice aid offer.)

If these acceptance rates are correct, then our estimate for 30% for Berkeley would seem very low, given that it is also an MPP program. Also, do they give a serious preference to CA residents?

[policy_applicant]

If these acceptance rates are correct, then our estimate for 30% for Berkeley would seem very low, given that it is also an MPP program. Also, do they give a serious preference to CA residents?

Berkeley what ifs...

Yield/ Acceptance Rate

55%/ 28.258%

50%/ 31.804%

45%/ 34.538%

40%/ 38.855%

35%/ 44.405%

30%/ 51.806%

OK, I'm done. I promise.

EDIT: Fixed.

[younglions]

I am just checking the regular Petersons. Some schools have admissions info under the students/outcomes tab and some don't. I'm calculating the yields myself from the available information.

For NYU, 61% of students are accepted: https://www.petersons.com/GradChannel/c ... sponsor=13

There is no information for Berkeley, but I bet it isn't much higher than 40%. California is a huge state with a lot of people wanting to get into public administration/public policy. Berkeley is considered the best of the state schools and best public policy program in the western half of the United States (and maybe period). UCLA admits 40% and USC admits 77%, I imagine Berkeley is lower than both of these schools.

Some other admit rates from Petersons:

George Mason - 64%

Johns Hopkins - 60%

Pepperdine - 74%

University of Penn (Masters of Government Admin.) - 33%

William and Mary - 64%

Syracuse Maxwell - 44%

Michigan Ford - 56%

How come nobody ever talks about Penn? Anybody know anything about their program?

[younglions]

Just checked Petersons for College Park, since I know some have applied there with admits/rejections, and it's actually one of the more competitive programs with a 51% acceptance rate.

[younglions]

Crap, I'm making three posts in a row... this is bad news for my mental health.

Policy_applicant - thanks for calculating out those possible acceptance rates. However, it seems like you've got your yields listed backwards. A high yield would imply a lower acceptance rate, right?

[policy_applicant]

Policy_applicant - thanks for calculating out those possible acceptance rates. However, it seems like you've got your yields listed backwards. A high yield would imply a lower acceptance rate, right?

Oops, copying error. Man, if the ad coms read this post, there's no way I'm getting in. :wink:

[Cornell07]

Any idea how competitive IR schools are? I would kill to have schools with a 50% acceptance rate.

What I know:

WWS: 13%

Yale: 16.7%

LSE: 9.9%

[younglions]

I'm pretty sure that LSE rate is how many students actually enroll relative to how many apply. In my experience, LSE admissions aren't super competitive (I got into their Public and Economic Policy program as a 20 year old with decent GRE scores and only an internship under my belt). I think the acceptance rate is three to four times that of the matriculation rate.

While IR programs, on average, are more selective than MPPs, the difference isn't too great. In fact, some of your schools have acceptance rates over 50% according to Petersons:

Columbia 39%

George Washington 41%

Fletcher 34%

Yale 21% (just a bit different than your figure)

American 66%

UCSD 53%

I'm almost positive that SAIS and Georgetown are less than 30%.

Also, the two different disciplines' acceptance rates probably can't be directly compared. IR programs typically desire previous international experience, which is usually harder to come by than domestic experience, plus proficiency in a foreign language. Public Policy programs typically desire more quantitative preparation.

If I were to crudely rank programs in terms of difficulty of admissions (as in how difficult it is to achieve the "desired profile") I'd probably come up with something like this:

1. Princeton WWS

2. Harvard MPP

3. Georgetown MSFS

4. Stanford International Policy Studies

5. Johns Hopkins SAIS

6. Berkeley GSPP

7. Fletcher MALD

8. Yale IR

9. Columbia SIPA (IR)

10. Georgetown GPPI

11. George Washington I.A.

12. UCLA/Chicago MPP

Yale would be higher than Berkeley, but my impression of Yale is that it's very academic and doesn't require the same international/career experience as the top programs in both public policy and international relations. The same could be said about the relatively unknown Stanford program.

Of course, these "difficulty rankings" are only relevant if you're interested in an internationally-focused career. They're probably also way off target. And I'm probably forgetting a school or two. It's all just for the sake of discussion.

[Cornell07]

Thanks for the info!