Seeking for advice: Apply in this December or next December?

[hzesen1222]

Before you read my post, please accept my sincere appreciation. Thank you for your time spend reading my post.

I am an undergrad CS student at UT Austin. Currently, I am thinking about applying to Master and Ph.D programs at the same time in this December for Fall admission 2013. However, if I apply this December, I might be put in disadvantage: lack of research experience.

Here is my personal profile:

1. GPA: 3.92

2. GRE: V600 Q800

3. Work Experience: I have been a web hosting manager since 12, biggest achievement: I hosted a then-large-scale cosmetics company (called Even) in Hong Kong when I was 15.

4. Skills: application development, Java application performance optimization on JVM side, Domain-specific languages implementation, OOP design. (many of which are learned independently)

5. Award: Oracle Certified Professional in Java 6

6. Publication: I published a book on the topic of web hosting and in the process of writing a book on the topic of DSL implementation (an overall guide, not an academic oriented book). and I have many technical articles published on the web (they are written in a foreign language but I am translating them into English currently). After the translation is done, I will attempt to publish them on InformIT, which is the company affiliated with Addison-Wesley.

7. Researh: here is where things get ugly. I know that research experience is the MOST important thing for graduate admission. Unfortunately, this is exactly what I lack of because I spent my first two years in a community college. However, I recently got approved to participate in a research group that specializes in Java performance at UT Austin. But, it starts in Fall, 2012, which is exactly when I will be applying to grad schools. Therefore, my research experience might not even help.

Schools that I wish to apply to: These schools are all my so-called 'dream schools', I will be extremely happy if I could be admitted to ANY ONE of them. My dream is to earn an advanced degree in the U.S and then go back to my country, where computer technology is not so advanced, and start teaching what I learned here. Therefore an advanced degree is a must, Ph.D is more desirable.

As I said, I will be SO happy if I could be admitted to any one of the following programs. Therefore, what I am interested in for now is whether or not I will be rejected by all of them. If this chance is really high, then I will apply other lower tier schools as well:

1. CMU, UCB, MIT, Stanford. (really low chance)

2. Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Brown, Rice, Duke (really really low chance, I just want to knock their doors at least for once in my life)

3. Cornell, UIUC, WashU, UT Austin, Georgia Tech, Purdue, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB

For the above 19 schools, I will apply to both Msc and PhD programs, and then in UK:

Oxford, Cambridge, and Imperial College London

for only Msc programs (they don't accept direct Ph.D)

I am from an Asian family, and as you see in a movie, Asian parents put so much hopes on their children, and we are kind of forced to do what they want us to do. Applying for so many schools seems crazy, but this is what my parents want me to do. And it is what I'd like to do as well because I don't want to fail this chance.

In total, 41 programs, 19 PhD and 22 Msc. I only wish to be admitted to ONE of them, and that's all I want.

But, I know, US grad schools put so much attention on research experience and as I said, this is what I lack of... Do you think I should apply this year, or research for one more year and then apply again next year? Because failing to be admitted is a huge waste of time and money provided that I am applying to that many schools. Again, last major question: What is the likelihood that I will be rejected by all of the programs above?

Lastly, thank you so much for reading my lengthy post. Thank you.

[ssk2]

I studied at Cambridge and have friends who have studied at undergraduate and postgraduate level at Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial. I don't think you'll have a problem getting admitted into those programs this year if you wish to do a Masters course - they're not nearly as competitive as US universities and you have a good profile. PhD programs are a little different since you need to find a professor first who will take you and then apply to the universities.

I suspect you might struggle to get into a US university though but if you intend to do a PhD, I'd almost say it's worth trying to stay there as much as you can. The British universities are good but from what I've heard, the breadth of what's available (in terms of research areas, cities and so on) is much better in the US. Of course, you may want the cross Atlantic experience - which is quite valuable, especially if you plan to return home afterwards.

Personally I'd wait, join the research group and spend some time there and try and get something published. That experience is invaluable and the opportunity to participate in research is quite rare at undergraduate level. That will help you both with your PhD application and, with Java being ubiquitous in industry, will definitely help any job applications you make later on. (Perhaps do a Masters afterwards there and apply to some PhD programs in the UK later too.)

Good luck!

Edited July 13, 2012 by ssk2

[hzesen1222]

Thank you ssk2!

What you said was certainly useful to me! Quote what you said in another post: "I think that most people can strengthen their applications enough to get in to most places, it's just a question of will, time and money, the last two of which are luxuries which most students don't often have", this is exactly the reason why I am going to apply to Master admission.

Here is what I will do if I get rejected by all the Ph.D programs but admitted to a Master program: After getting my Master degree, I will just work and gain experience and apply to the Ph.D programs in those three UK universities ONLY (NO USA) every single year until I get admitted. The reason for this is quite simple: first as you said the cross continent experience is invaluable. Secondly, a PhD program is the UK takes only 3 years.

So, now I basically have two options.

1. Just like what you said, spend some more time as an undergrad here at UT Austin, participate in the research and try to become a really competitive undergrad applicant in the future, and probably apply to graduate schools for Fall 2014 admission.

2. Just like what I just said, apply for Fall 2013 Master admissions. If I get in, then spend 1-2 years in Master, achieve something, get enough research experience and hopefully get something published, and then after graduation apply for UK PhD admissions every single year. (Once again, what you said in another post, the one that I just quoted, really inspires me a LOT. Thanks.)

What do you think? Thank you so much!

Other evaluations or comments are welcomed and appreciated, thank you guys!

[hzesen1222]

Just a fellow-up to the previous post:

As you mentioned, undergrad research experience is so rare, and you also said I had a good profile, and I will be applying to almost around 20 universities in the U.S.. Given all three prerequisites, why would I still struggle to get into a single US university? I mean, undergrad research experience is so rare that not many people have, and I have a pretty decent profile as you said, and I am applying to that many programs, I should have a decent chance, shouldn't I?

Many thanks!

[ssk2]

Firstly - I personally wouldn't do a Masters degree in the UK if you were looking to get research experience*. Most of the masters here are taught masters and it's highly unlikely you will get significant research exposure or publish anything. I don't know how Masters courses in the US compare to this but the reason I'm applying there is because the courses are more flexible and the breadth of courses is greater.

Bear in mind that several CS Masters degrees here are more suited to people who haven't studied significant CS before and courses are less flexible - so you may end up having to study the same content you studied previously.

(*This is not the case with the MPhil course at Cambridge. Several of my friends have completed this to go onto PhDs - so this one is worth applying to!)

Secondly - I meant that you might struggle to get into a PhD course without much research experience. From what I've read they're intensely competitive. Could you do a Masters course at UT Austin? That would let you continue your work with the research group you're about to get involved with and it might be easier to navigate their admissions process having studied your undergraduate there?

The cost effective (and time efficient) options would be to apply straight to PhD programs as long as you can demonstrate sufficient research experience - which might mean, as you say, spending more time as an undergraduate there.

However, if you're keen to do a Masters course, apply this year! I wouldn't bother applying to both Masters and PhD at the same time - it's likely to seep into your application and make it seem less focussed. (Plus, presumably a lot of places only let you apply to one program.)

It depends on your financial constraints more than anything else since the Masters route will ultimately be more expensive. Bear in mind that British PhD programs are much shorter (an average of four years) but do mostly require a Masters degree first.

Hope this helps a little, sorry if it's a little unclear, you've got very many options!

Separate to your question, what is your opinion of the graduate course at UT Austin as a current student there?

[hzesen1222]

Thank you!

At UT Austin we have something called Integrated MS/BS degree which could be completed in five years. However, this is sort of for people who started as a freshmen because and it is only available for juniors, so this might not be available to me any more.

Currently, I think I am more inclined to applying to Master programs and do Ph.D in UK because this might be the most time efficient route. I think I should be able to finish Master in less than 1.5 years, hopefully 1 year. And then, UK Ph.D takes only 3 years. So in combination it is only 4 - 4.5 years. However, a direct Ph.D in US normally takes 5 - 6 years.

What is your opinion on this?

Once again, I am really fortunate that I can talk to you since you are currently in UK. Really appreciate your help!

[ssk2]

Ah - I see, hadn't considered that. You're correct - Masters courses here are only 1 year - there is no flexibility in the timing of the course - so you will definitely be out in 12 months. As for PhD length - I've not met a single person who has finished their PhD in 3 years, it's normally more like 3-4 if you're good and at least 4 on average.

Are you considering any other universities? Perhaps those three will suffice for a Masters course but there are very many other CS departments which are good - have a look at this table here. I don't know how they equate to the departments there in the US. Regardless, the Imperial College MRes and the Cambridge MPhil courses should be at the top of your list.

If you're keen on going down the Masters route - you should to apply to some places in the US too to keep your options open since there far more 'top' CS departments there than here. You can always apply for a PhD in the UK after finishing your Masters in the US.

[hzesen1222]

That's right. That's what I meant, and I am going to apply for Master in both US and UK. Btw, did you check your inbox? I sent you a message.

Thank you so much!

[hzesen1222]

I just took a look at the MRes at Imperial College. However, I did not find Programming Language Implementation as one of the areas. Before you mentioned MRes, what I actually focused on was the MSc in Computing (Theory) at Imperial College, which offered PL Implementation courses. I know MRes is more about research and therefore a better prep for Ph.D, but for my Ph.D I want to research on PL Implementation, do you still think MRes is more suitable than MSc in this case?

Thank you.

[ssk2]

Ah, right - perhaps contact Imperial and find out which might be more suitable. I don't personally know enough about the courses there to give an opinion.