Biology Masters Programs

[abcd1]

Hello,

I am an international student and have been awarded a scholarship for a masters in biology in the US. Although my final university placement will be decided by the scholarship granting body, they have asked me to list four universities preferences. I have been looking at the rankings of biology graduate programs but most of them are for Phd and very little information is available about masters programs.

I have a gpa of around 3 but good gre scores (around 1500 in general gre and 90% in biology subject gre), so i want to list two top ranked universities and two safe universities. But I cannot find any information about the ranking of masters programs. The good universities that I have been able to come up with which offer MS programs are Michigan-ann arbor, New York University, Boston University, and UCLA. But really I have very little idea about the options open to me so I would appreciate any info about good MS biology programs. I have no preferences in terms of location and the finances will be completely taken care of by the scholarship so I am just looking for the best possible university that I can realistically get admission in.

I am looking for programs in general biology and evolutionary biology.

Thanks

[mtlve]

Masters programs are very rare and not really useful in the us. Ones in things like bioinformatics are more common, but still not very popular. One school I was at had the bioinformatics masters, but you had to be enrolled in the PhD program to do it.

Why are you getting a masters? If you want to get a doctorate eventually, I would just apply to PhD programs now. A masters degree did not decrease the amount of course work you had to take in a doctorate program. If you want to get a PhD abroad, then you will need the masters probably. If you are not sure about getting a PhD yet and want more experience in the US to decide, just try to find a tech position in a us lab. This will also increase your chances of getting into the program at that school in most cases.

Good luck

[abcd1]

There are a couple of reasons that I cannot get into a Phd program. Firstly, my bachelors degree is not directly related to biology and I dont have any research experience. Secondly, the scholarship i have been offered is for a two year masters program. There is very little chance that I would be able to get into a phd program and even if i do it will be very difficult for me to cover my living and educational expenses. This is a fully funded scholarship which will cover everything from education to living and insurance and is probably the only chance i have of studying in the US.

I would appreciate if someone can give some advice about good ms programs.

Thanks

[mtlve]

A lot of people do not have biology degrees and join a biology PhD program. We had math, computer science, etc. I went to grad school with a guy that had no biology background at all and had spent a long time working with microsoft. I would still seriously think about whether a masters here is the best option. Are you really getting adequate living expenses? If it will cost you at all, I would not recommend it.

A lot of masters programs tend to be a stepping block for pre-meds to get into medical school, since they really have no use in the states for people interested in research. You could also work in a paid position as a tech and a lot of PIs may pay for you to take classes or you could audit classes.

As for the best program, many of us here probably can not answer that. Are you planning to do a program that is all classes or one with a research component? If you are looking for one with a research component, I would pick places to apply based on the labs. If you have your own funding as you suggest, I do not think it would be that hard to get into any of them. I am not sure if this forum has a lot of biology MS students. If you do not find information here, I would maybe try student doctor network where all the pre-meds hang out. All US citizens that I know have Biology MS degrees were either premed or did it in fields like bioinformatics while doing a PhD.

[prettyuff1]

My current PhD program has a Lawyer in it, and my cohort has someone who was an English Major and took a few biology courses. But too you can begin at the masters level, decided that you want to get a PhD and apply to the same university from there. It has happened a lot in the program I am in where people decide to transfer departments. I think you should feel out the department and see how what the funding options are for PhD as an international student

[abcd1]

Thanks for the feedback.

Before i got the scholarship, i had contacted a lot of universities about admission to phd but most of them were not very optimistic about my chances because i had absolutely no research experience and very few bio courses. It might be possible for local students but i think it is almost impossible for an international student who doesnt have a relevant bachelors degree, has zero research experience and needs full funding to get into a phd program. This scholarship is my best chance, the only downside being that it is strictly for 2 years so i wont be able to transfer to phd even if i want to.

If i dont give my own preferences the institute of international education in usa would just place me at a university they think is most suitable. I guess i should just leave it to them.

[armyofbieber]

You should be less worried about school rankings and more concerned with the type of research you'd like to be involved with. Grad school in biology is all about joining a particular lab and conducting research.

[abcd1]

I understand your point about research but at this stage i simply need some info on which universities are even worth mentioning in my preferences.

I have no personal contacts in usa who can give me this info and i cant seem to find any resources on the internet specifically about ms programs. I am just trying to short list 10-15 universities that i can contact personally and would appreciate any help in this regard.

Thanks

[armyofbieber]

May I ask you what your career plans are?

[abcd1]

Future plan is to get a phd and probably a teaching/research job.

[mtlve]

job in biology or another field?

[abcd1]

Certainly a biology related job.

[mtlve]

what country do you want to do your PhD in and work in long term? I am not familiar with the education system you are coming from. Is it like Europe and you are generally expected to get a MS before you can get the PhD?

[abcd1]

I will probably be in south asia in the long term and most people here usually do an ms before phd. But i would prefer to do my phd from usa.

[mtlve]

Unless a PhD without a masters will mess up your chances to get a faculty position in your country, I still recommend that you not try to get a MS here first. Most of the good schools in the US will not have a MS program. I still recommend contacting faculty within your field of interest about getting a tech position to work in for ~2 years. This type of position will prepare you for graduate school in the US, and it will probably give you better ties that will enable you to get into a better PhD program. I am not sure how difficult it is to get a tech position from abroad in the US though. I have seen people from all over the world in these type of positions though.

The exception to my advice is if you think that you may apply to PhD programs back home or possibly in Europe where you likely need a MS before you can get into the PhD program

Edited October 18, 2012 by mtlve

[milam1186]

Getting a Masters definitely helps getting into PhD programs... even in the US. The ranking of the school is secondary to getting publications to your name and experience in the lab. Plus letters of recommendation can be your golden ticket for the PhD program of your dreams. If you're into the "name" game, you can limit your search to those. Personally, I'd look into smaller schools as well that use Masters student as the life blood of their research. Schools like the non-Chapel Hill UNCs (UNC Wilmington, UNC Charlotte, UNC Asheville, etc), smaller private schools and the like.

The only things that will matter in your career in academia: how many publications you have and where you published. Those two things will open up career opportunities more than anything else. Anyone who puts much weight on where you got your degree and if you also hold a masters in addition to your PhD is either an old-school elitist or ill-informed.

[mtlve]

Getting a Masters definitely helps getting into PhD programs... even in the US. The ranking of the school is secondary to getting publications to your name and experience in the lab. Plus letters of recommendation can be your golden ticket for the PhD program of your dreams. If you're into the "name" game, you can limit your search to those. Personally, I'd look into smaller schools as well that use Masters student as the life blood of their research. Schools like the non-Chapel Hill UNCs (UNC Wilmington, UNC Charlotte, UNC Asheville, etc), smaller private schools and the like.

The only things that will matter in your career in academia: how many publications you have and where you published. Those two things will open up career opportunities more than anything else. Anyone who puts much weight on where you got your degree and if you also hold a masters in addition to your PhD is either an old-school elitist or ill-informed.

I would argue against this route if you want a PhD. Science is all about who you know. I interviewed at several top 10 US PhD programs a few years ago, and I probably got most of them because they knew my boss of that time very well (national academy of science member so fairly well known). The most well-known scientists are typically at the big schools and not your UNC-ashevilles where you can get the masters. If the OP wants to get into a good US program, he/she is better off applying for tech jobs at better schools who rarely have masters program options (hopkins, duke, unc chapel hill, university of washington, etc). They would probably do better in the PhD application process coming from a Hopkins or even UNC lab as a tech than a ms student from an unknown lab at a relatively unknown school

[abcd1]

Well, i dont know whether getting a masters is the best route or not but it is the only practically viable option i have right now. The question is not whether i should get a masters but where I should get it from. I have pretty much left it to the scholarship granting body to give me some options and will decide from among them.

Still open to suggestions about good ms programs.Thanks for the feedback.

[milam1186]

I would argue against this route if you want a PhD. Science is all about who you know. I interviewed at several top 10 US PhD programs a few years ago, and I probably got most of them because they knew my boss of that time very well (national academy of science member so fairly well known). The most well-known scientists are typically at the big schools and not your UNC-ashevilles where you can get the masters. If the OP wants to get into a good US program, he/she is better off applying for tech jobs at better schools who rarely have masters program options (hopkins, duke, unc chapel hill, university of washington, etc). They would probably do better in the PhD application process coming from a Hopkins or even UNC lab as a tech than a ms student from an unknown lab at a relatively unknown school

I got a master's degree from an unknown (UNC-Wilmington)... now I'm doing my Ph.D. at the University of Toronto (one of those "name" schools). My wife did the same thing, masters from UNCW, now at U of T. We also got into schools like Cornell, UC Irvine, UNC Chapel Hill, and University of Utah. So, getting a masters at an unknown doesn't come close to dooming your chances for getting a Ph.D... in fact, I'd say it helps those chances. Like I said before, the most important thing you can do to help your academic career is to publish.

[mtlve]

On 10/25/2012 at 11:20 AM, milam1186 said:

I got a master's degree from an unknown (UNC-Wilmington)... now I'm doing my Ph.D. at the University of Toronto (one of those "name" schools). My wife did the same thing, masters from UNCW, now at U of T. We also got into schools like Cornell, UC Irvine, UNC Chapel Hill, and University of Utah. So, getting a masters at an unknown doesn't come close to dooming your chances for getting a Ph.D... in fact, I'd say it helps those chances. Like I said before, the most important thing you can do to help your academic career is to publish.

do agree with you about publishing. that is the best thing you can do for an app. I do not agree that you have to spend more money or get less pay as a MS student. It depends on the lab, but you can get a similar experience as a tech and it opens up options to work at a schools like cornell and UNC that have a good reputation but do not have MS programs. I actually do not know of any better schools that have MS options in the us: UNC, Duke, Hopkins, all the ivys, Berkeley, University of Washington (Seattle), Washington University in St. Louis, etc. MS and tech experience in certain labs I think give you an equivalent experience. Going the tech route eliminates debt and allows you to possibly get lab experience at a top school like Berkeley. One of my classmates had a first author nature pub from his tech lab at Duke as an example, this would be very hard to get as a MS student at UNC-non chapel hill school. Most faculty that publish in that type of journal get recruited a way from those smaller schools.

You can probably get in either way. If the OP gets stipend and all paid for ms then it might be an ok option for him or her, but its is not useful for most of us that have to pay for a masters.

[milam1186]

Being at Duke doesn't make getting a Nature paper easier. That's just silly and suggests something rather fowl going on in the scientific community. Good for them though, you get a Nature paper by merit, not by who you know/where you are.

OP has a scholarship for a Master's Degree. My whole point is that it really doesn't matter where you get your Master's degree as long as you have a decent advisor and are motivated enough to get your thesis chapter(s) published. OP knew about the "name" schools with Master's degrees... I was suggesting lesser known schools that may be "easier" to get into.

Others to consider:

University of Maryland, Baltimore

San Diego State

Montana State

University of San Diego

San Jose State

Obviously more out there, just a few I knew from papers I've read in my field/met people from there at conferences. I then checked to see if they had masters programs.

[aberrant]

he/she is better off applying for tech jobs at better schools who rarely have masters program options (hopkins, duke, unc chapel hill, university of washington, etc). They would probably do better in the PhD application process coming from a Hopkins or even UNC lab as a tech than a ms student from an unknown lab at a relatively unknown school

I'm not sure if you aware how difficult it is to get a lab tech position as a person without any research experience PLUS being an international student (or non-resident). For the complicated paperwork and processes, it is extremely unlikely to have an international student (who did not get his/her bachelor degree in the U.S.) to get a lab tech position in the U.S (not to mention the experience issue). As a result, your lab tech suggestion is true and valid for many cases, but definitely not for foreign applicants. Bottom line is this -- if you are not a resident in the U.S., to get a job in the U.S. you will need 1. a bachelor degree (why? to apply) 2. a working VISA. 3. you need to show that you are financially independent, or that you have money to support yourself for a certain amount of time. However, noticed that without getting an official offer (here, a lab tech position), chances of getting a working VISA is almost impossible. So yea -- you need money and qualification to make some tiny money (I would't expect any PI would pay a lot for a lab tech, unless he/she is qualified / overqualified).

I got my bachelor degree in a big state school after being on-and-off from school. I never considered applying the MS program at my school only because I do not have any money for the MS program. Hence I just applied PhD programs and got in somewhere. Imho, going into a MS program for ANY students who did not have previous research experience is almost always the best option -- not only you learn how and what to do in research, but you also (legitimately) take classes and put it under your belt (for job or grad school application, if necessary), you get TA experience which will be helpful, just a fewer things more than being a lab tech. If the OP can get a free ride for his MS, I don't see why shouldn't he go for it.

[aberrant]

University of San Diego

I wouldn't put a private school where scientific research isn't their forte on the list.

[abcd1]

After reading all these replies a masters degree doesnt sound as bad as I first thought (especially when its free!).

And milam1186, thanks for suggesting the names of the universities, that is exactly what I was looking for.

[Chai_latte]

Hi abcd1,

Since you're aiming for a PhD eventually, I think it might be good to consider MS programs at PhD granting institutions. I'm not ruling out places like UNC-Ashville, but schools like Maryland- Baltimore (like milam said) or Maryland- Baltimore County, probably schools like SUNY Stony Brook or SUNY Buffalo, CUNY graduate center, UC-Riverside, Illinois at Chicago, maybe WashU, Brandeis or Tufts and various state schools (Nebraska, Arizona, Kansas, Georgia etc.) Basically, go to USNews.com, look up the biological sciences (not so much for ranking, but for a full list of schools). You'll probably have to start looking outside of the top 50. Go through the list and email/call/look at the websites to find out which schools offer the masters. Create your list from that. Look at the profs who have interesting research and/or who are especially accomplished in their respective fields. I don't know if the schools that I mentioned offer the MS (I think they might), it's your job to find that out and to find other institutions that meet your needs. This is a very personal choice- one that a scholarship governing body can't/shouldn't make for you. The main reasons why I would lean towards a PhD granting institution are: 1) there is heavier emphasis on research (at least stereotypically) 2) if you don't get in elsewhere for the PhD, you can probably stay where you are 3) yes, science is partially about who you know- there are higher odds of a well known prof being at a public PhD place than at a MS granting institution. Of course, as Milam pointed out, you can be successful with either option. It's really up to you.