What Geoscience PhD programs award 1-2 year fellowships to a large fraction of incoming students?

[InquilineKea]

By "fellowships" I'm mostly talking about fellowships that basically cover all tuition + give a stipend without demanding that the student TA or do research (so they give incoming students a huge amount of freedom).

I've heard that Yale and Caltech award 2-year fellowships to them all, and that Brown and Columbia both award 1-year fellowships to the majority of them.

What about other schools? And is this generally specific to Geoscience, or do Yale and Caltech also tend to do this for their other students? (I know that Brown doesn't do it for their other students)

Edited November 6, 2012 by InquilineKea

[TakeruK]

I'm not sure what you mean by "without demanding that the student ... do research". In many schools, the whole point of awarding a fellowship is to allow the student to have freedom to do research (instead of TAing in the first year). Or do you mean "without demanding that the student ... do research [for a specific professor who is paying them]"?

I don't think there are many fellowships that will pay all of graduate tuition + stipend and not require you to do something for it! Most of the time, these fellowships are awarded based on research merit (which is why we must submit research proposals) because they expect us to be doing research with the freedom from TAing. The "freedom" you get is the ability to work with someone who might not otherwise have funding to pay for you.

[mandarin.orange]

What are your specific research interests? If you could identify yourself by one subfield, what would it be?

Also, what do you mean by "huge amount of freedom?" I didn't have TA duties my first year, nor much labwork -- thank God -- but was absolutely swamped with required coursework and laying the groundwork for my project, which entailed lit review, fieldwork logistics, and writing proposals for additional fellowship applications.

[Usmivka]

MIT, for one. Most others I know of are keyed into a prof who is supporting you. But this really varies by department, and some schools have multiple geoscience departments.

By word of explanation to TK and MO, this is a common approach in other some other fields where the student to prof ratio is much higher, say microbiology or chemistry--a strong student is admitted, and the department pools money to support them for the first year or two while they do rotations and before they have committed to a lab. In my program we do the same, although for the opposite reason--there are so few students relative to profs who want them, that the "strings free" funding gives them a chance to compete for students already in the program.

[TakeruK]

By word of explanation to TK and MO, this is a common approach in other some other fields where the student to prof ratio is much higher, say microbiology or chemistry--a strong student is admitted, and the department pools money to support them for the first year or two while they do rotations and before they have committed to a lab.

My school has the same system too -- we do two first year projects while funded by the department, pass orals/quals, then get ourselves attached to and funded by specific prof(s) for our dissertation. We actually also have no TA duties in the first year so we have a lot of freedom in choosing the two projects (they must not overlap) but we have to take a large number of courses! I was confused when InquilineKea mentioned a fellowship with no requirement for doing research so that's why I asked if he meant no requirement to do research with a specific project(s), or truly no requirement at all. The former is the situation you described and also what happens at my school. The latter is something I haven't heard of!

[Usmivka]

My partner (virology) has a unrestricted training grant with no research requirement. Even if some research is expected, the specific wording may indeed be unrestricted for tax reasons (some extremely specific "non-compensatory fellowships" are not taxed by certain jurisdictions).

Edited November 6, 2012 by Usmivka

[TakeruK]

My partner (virology) has a unrestricted training grant with no research requirement. Even if some research is expected, the specific wording may indeed be unrestricted for tax reasons (some extremely specific "non-compensatory fellowships" are not taxed by certain jurisdictions).

That's interesting! Thanks for the correction

[InquilineKea]

Yeah - Usmivka was basically saying what I was meaning - when we're on a fellowship, we're not even in a "job". All we're expected to do is maintain adequate progress towards our PhD, which could just be taking classes for our first year.

Usmivka - I'm actually curious - does this apply to each division within MIT EAPS or does it only apply to your division? And how long do fellowships at MIT EAPS last for?

The reason I'm curious is that my advisers are actually urging me to consider applying to transfer to a different school just in case things don't necessarily work out next year (since they can't be absolutely sure if they can take me on as a student next year) - and MIT was one of the suggestions they listed, but I would be split between applying for PAOC, Planetary Science, or possibly even Geobiology. In case I do take the step though, it would be important for me to look for a school where they award 1-year fellowships since it makes it much easier for a professor to try out someone who's potentially high-risk (I have ADD and Asperger's). I am applying for NSF/NDSEG (and am obsessed with them) but there's no guarantee that I'll get them. Fortunately I'm on the East Coast now so that will make it easier for me to visit schools/potential advisers prior to applying if I end up with that route.

Edited November 9, 2012 by InquilineKea

[Usmivka]

PAOC, Planetary Science, and Geobiology are programs, but you need to be admitted to a department to get funding. The most pertinent would be EAPS. From the EAPS website:

"All students admitted to our doctoral programs are provided with full funding that includes a stipend, tuition, and health insurance. This may be in the form of a fellowship or research assistantship. At some time in your graduate career you will be asked to serve as a teaching assistant so that you gain that experience. Research assistantships are the primary support for students beyond the first year."

So in general you get an "first year fellowship", then move to an RAship.

Again from EAPS:

"First-year fellowships...give beginning students breathing room to explore their research interests, find a faculty mentor, and complete coursework."

So regardless of what program you apply to, this is the minimum funding outlook. Some programs have additional support. For example, I'm in the MIT/WHOI program and PAOC, each of which have separate pots of fellowship and grant money that are automatically awarded to students in lieu of and (in the case of grants) in addition to any EAPS funding. Then there are further program, departmental, and university pots that can be applied to.

[InquilineKea]

Oh cool - thanks very much for the information! Do you also know if admissions to each MIT EAPS program is done separately? (e.g. if PAOC admissions is done entirely differently from Planetary Science admissions?) If someone's interests overlapped considerably with both, then would one be considered for both programs?

Edited November 10, 2012 by InquilineKea

[InquilineKea]

I'm also curious - for those programs that do offer students 1st-year fellowships, are some of their students encouraged to at least consider the option of transferring to another school after their first year? (since they're not strongly committed to any adviser their 1st year, sometimes people learn more about each other [though at least they don't get messy!] and then they might be encouraged to transfer).

And if they do transfer, are they sometimes in a stronger position when applying because of their additional coursework/experience/maturity?

Since my advisers are all telling me to cast my net wide and to at least apply to transfer just so that I'll have options just in case things don't work out (which I think is a good idea, although some could see certain signals that could come out of that advice).

Edited November 10, 2012 by InquilineKea

[Usmivka]

I think the EAPS programs run separate admissions, but I don't really know. I think it is rare to encourage a transfer after investing money in a student for a year already, this would imply to me that they don't want to be on the hook for your funding later, for whatever reason (finances, interpersonal relations, who knows?). I don't think transferring puts you in a stronger position, but it probably doesn't put you in a weeker position, unless you cant get good letters of rec out of your year.

[InquilineKea]

Oh okay - thanks very much for the reply.

Yeah - transferring puts one in a mixed position. Earth science is one of those areas where adviser fit matters more than other factors though, so transferring *could* actually put one in a stronger position if it simply allows one to wait out a year until a prof is able to take new grad students when they weren't able to take on any new one the previous year (this is the case with one prof I'm contacting, actually). Of course, the opposite reasoning could also apply.

The department does get the fellowship money from the school though, so it's not as if the department invested a huge amount into the student (though it could be that a student wasn't taken off the waiting list because of it).

[Usmivka]

Actually, a department does not get fellowship money from the university--the department pays the university for the student, using money from departmental grants and endowments.

[mandarin.orange]

Earth science is one of those areas where adviser fit matters more than other factors though, so transferring *could* actually put one in a stronger position if it simply allows one to wait out a year until a prof is able to take new grad students when they weren't able to take on any new one the previous year (this is the case with one prof I'm contacting, actually).

Advisor fit is important, but I've never heard of someone going quite to these lengths to ensure they end up with a certain PI of choice. Switching PhD programs after a year to a different school is highly unusual. I've found that encouragement to do your MS and PhD at separate places and with separate advisors is widespread in geosciences, but never heard of encouraging transfers after one year. I've only encountered one person during the course of two separate programs who's done it...it was a bit of a stigma and none of her coursework/time investment/credits transferred.

[InquilineKea]

Actually, a department does not get fellowship money from the university--the department pays the university for the student, using money from departmental grants and endowments.

Hmm - maybe it differs from university to university? My understanding was that Brown did it somewhat differently than others. I'll have to ask though.

One factor that might play a role in my advising - though - might be the fact that my advising committee is composed entirely of "outsiders" (out of the 3 members - one is leaving the school next year, one is a joint appointment, and my primary adviser isn't even in the department, but in Physics instead).

Advisor fit is important, but I've never heard of someone going quite to these lengths to ensure they end up with a certain PI of choice. Switching PhD programs after a year to a different school is highly unusual. I've found that encouragement to do your MS and PhD at separate places and with separate advisors is widespread in geosciences, but never heard of encouraging transfers after one year. I've only encountered one person during the course of two separate programs who's done it...it was a bit of a stigma and none of her coursework/time investment/credits transferred.

Hmmm... Interesting... I'm not sure if it matters if transferred coursework matters that much though? A lot of geoscience departments have "open curricula"/no core curriculum - meaning that there are no course requirements beyond having a certain number of credits - and that any required number of credits to graduate can simply be fulfilled with research credits.

Of course, I can stay for another year and get a M.S. here and then there would be no such stigma, but the advice was for me to do it this year.

With that said - I have such strongly defined research interests (exoplanet climate modeling) that any adviser outside of the area would have pretty strong reservations about taking me on (since they'd fear that I'd defect on them). Also is the factor that I have a personality that is extremely unusual - I'm the type of person who people *never* forget (which has its good parts and its bad parts).

Edited November 16, 2012 by InquilineKea