Decision-making time?

[ThisSlumgullionIsSoVapid]

If anyone here is contemplating ND but wants more information, maybe stuff they were afraid to ask while they were still in the interviewing stage, feel free to PM me. 

 

Good luck with your decisions everyone!

Edited March 12, 2013 by ThisSlumgullionIsSoVapid

[oilandvinegar]

I just rejected Rutgers and a MAPSS offer at Chicago. Alas, my final visit is it at the end of the month, so it will be a couple weeks before I make my final decision.

[amlobo]

I just declined UCSD's offer.  Hope I freed up some funds for you other UCSD folks!    I had previously declined Irvine, so now I'm down to two.  Big decision ahead... 

[macrotomicro]

Hi all.  I'm completely torn between two programs, UW-Madison and Northwestern.  Very different programs in very different towns (with VERY different funding packages.)  I'm a "qualitative person" who does social movements, theory, politics, and culture.  Both programs are very strong in all of these, yet I'm torn. Choose the so-called #1 program, but live on a really snug funding package for the next X number of years, or go the #10 school and live considerably more comfortably (even considering cost of living differences) with a much smaller cohort. Thoughts??  Thank you! 

[oilandvinegar]

Hi all.  I'm completely torn between two programs, UW-Madison and Northwestern.  Very different programs in very different towns (with VERY different funding packages.)  I'm a "qualitative person" who does social movements, theory, politics, and culture.  Both programs are very strong in all of these, yet I'm torn. Choose the so-called #1 program, but live on a really snug funding package for the next X number of years, or go the #10 school and live considerably more comfortably (even considering cost of living differences) with a much smaller cohort. Thoughts??  Thank you! 

 

 

I think the advice I've seen above (or on a similar feed) was kind of perfect - where do you think you'll do your best work?

 

As for the USNWR ranking bit, it's important to keep in mind how narrow these numbers are:

4.7 - Princeton, Berkeley, Wisconsin

4.6 - Stanford, Michigan

4.5 - Harvard, Chicago, Chapel Hill

4.4 - UCLA

4.3 - Northwestern, UPenn

 

Obviously, both these programs are very strong programs. In this instance, I wouldn't let ranking sway you too much. This is really a matter of where you think you'll do your best work. Think about who you'd work with, the resources the school has for your research interests, and funding. Those factors are going to have a greater impact on the quality of work you're able to do, in my opinion.

 

[La_Di_Da]

Hi all.  I'm completely torn between two programs, UW-Madison and Northwestern.  Very different programs in very different towns (with VERY different funding packages.)  I'm a "qualitative person" who does social movements, theory, politics, and culture.  Both programs are very strong in all of these, yet I'm torn. Choose the so-called #1 program, but live on a really snug funding package for the next X number of years, or go the #10 school and live considerably more comfortably (even considering cost of living differences) with a much smaller cohort. Thoughts??  Thank you! 

 

Bear in mind that Northwestern is ranked #3 for Sociology of Culture, per US News, who only lists the top six for the subdiscipline (select specialty from the drop down menu at the top of the sociology rankings to view). Note that UW-Madison doesn't make the list. That said, go where you think you'll do your best work. That was my primary deciding factor, then funding. I didn't even give rank serious consideration, since I believe that my desirability as a future hire will be based on the quality of my research and output. Best of luck! At least with two great cultural programs to choose from, you really can't go wrong.

 

Edited to include US News sociology of culture program rankings: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/sociology-of-culture-rankings

Edited March 14, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[magicunicorn]

If you are a qualitative person - and if you operate close to any of Northwestern's core strengths: ethnography, symbolic interaction, culture, critical theory (particularly with race/ethnicity or gender/sexuality), I would choose Northwestern given that the only thing attracting you to Wisconsin seems to be its USNWR ranking - I personally don't think Wisconsin is as strong as NU in the areas mentioned above (though admittedly, it would be great to learn ethnography from Alice Goffman at Wisconsin, and she was not there when I was looking at programs).  

 

Keep in mind the rankings are really based on department peer review that will heavily favor large departments (large department=more graduates=more publications=more successful faculty) - and someone once told me to view the rankings as two separate lists, a top 5 for large public programs:  Berkeley, Wisconsin, Michigan, Chapel Hill, UCLA, and a top 5/6 for smaller private programs: Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, Northwestern, UPenn.  And then to think about what type of program you want to be at (larger/public, smaller/private) and then look at the rankings.  It might be easier that way, since then you aren't only looking at the numerical gap between #11 and #1, but actually taking the structural differences of the programs more seriously - and then viewing the rankings as a top 5 private program vs. a top 5 public program.

Edited March 14, 2013 by magicunicorn

[heathenist]

Easy, Chicago rules, Northwestern.

[La_Di_Da]

Well, submitted my decisions today. A spot may open for someone waitlisted at Northwestern. It was tough to say no to both the program and the city of Chicago--lots of friends and family there.

[ohhello]

Hi all.  I'm completely torn between two programs, UW-Madison and Northwestern.  Very different programs in very different towns (with VERY different funding packages.)  I'm a "qualitative person" who does social movements, theory, politics, and culture.  Both programs are very strong in all of these, yet I'm torn. Choose the so-called #1 program, but live on a really snug funding package for the next X number of years, or go the #10 school and live considerably more comfortably (even considering cost of living differences) with a much smaller cohort. Thoughts??  Thank you! 

 

I may have some thoughts we can discuss via PM if you are interested - I was in your shoes last year in an identical situation in regard to USN ranking versus subdiscipline versus quality of life - but I would echo what has been mentioned so far. 

[mbrown0315]

Anyone else out there trying to decide between UCLA and University of Chicago? I attended Chicago's visit event and was very impressed. I also visited UCLA alone and was equally impressed, though for different reasons.

 

Anyone else out there facing this predicament?

[sociologyinthepast]

Ugh. Just did my first visits, and they only made things more difficult. I was fairly set on Rutgers, since it's my highest ranked offer, a good fit, and the visit went well, but I liked Brandeis much more than I expected to. The faculty seemed very engaged with students, the placements didn't seem like a total neverending abyss of failure (being silly here), and the area (obviously) was nice because it's Boston.

 

Still, I'm worried that the lure of living in Cambridge is puling me away from what might be the right decision professionally. It's important to live somewhere you like for the 5-6 years of grad school, but then you've got your whole career to worry about. Yeesh.

 

So, I don't know. Program in the 20s vs program in the 40s-50s; that's a big gap, but at the same time, I think I could do good work at either place and Boston is more desirable than New Brunswick. Decisions, decisions!

[La_Di_Da]

Ugh. Just did my first visits, and they only made things more difficult. I was fairly set on Rutgers, since it's my highest ranked offer, a good fit, and the visit went well, but I liked Brandeis much more than I expected to. The faculty seemed very engaged with students, the placements didn't seem like a total neverending abyss of failure (being silly here), and the area (obviously) was nice because it's Boston.

 

Still, I'm worried that the lure of living in Cambridge is puling me away from what might be the right decision professionally. It's important to live somewhere you like for the 5-6 years of grad school, but then you've got your whole career to worry about. Yeesh.

 

So, I don't know. Program in the 20s vs program in the 40s-50s; that's a big gap, but at the same time, I think I could do good work at either place and Boston is more desirable than New Brunswick. Decisions, decisions!

I firmly believe that one's future job prospects are determined more by the spirit and quality of one's work than program ranking. Likewise, your work will shine brightest as a result of choosing the program where you, yourself, may shine brightly -- i.e., were you will do your best work, become your best self. And that equation is not linear. My only (unsolicited) advice: trust yourself, for no one else knows you--your needs--better than you. Wishing you all the best as you make your final decision.

Edited March 18, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[Darth.Vegan]

Officially declined my offer from University of Victoria. I am still waiting to hear from Simon Fraser about a large entrance fellowship they applied for on my behalf, but I will likely be declining there as well. At this point it feels like my decision is between the PhD programs at Oregon, UCSD and Irvine, as well as the M.S. in Environmental Justice at Michigan (they offered me very solid funding, $2200/month for the first year and I can apply for it again in the 2nd year). I am still strongly considering Michigan both because the program seems awesome and I would love the opportunity to work with Dorceta Taylor. However, I am struggling with the logic of doing a masters program at this point. My top choice programs were Wisconsin and Cornell and while the program at Michigan may help my chances of getting into either Wisconsin or Cornell in my next application season there are zero guarantees in this crazy process. I also feel I would need to strengthen my quant score before applying again and dread the idea of both studying for the GRE and going through the application process again. I am also quite happy with my PhD offers at the moment, both in terms of the faculty I would work with and the relative prestige/and or recent job placements. If anyone has any thoughts on the benefit of doing a terminal masters, I'd love to hear from you. 

Edited March 18, 2013 by xdarthveganx

[oilandvinegar]

Ugh. Just did my first visits, and they only made things more difficult. I was fairly set on Rutgers, since it's my highest ranked offer, a good fit, and the visit went well, but I liked Brandeis much more than I expected to. The faculty seemed very engaged with students, the placements didn't seem like a total neverending abyss of failure (being silly here), and the area (obviously) was nice because it's Boston.

 

Still, I'm worried that the lure of living in Cambridge is puling me away from what might be the right decision professionally. It's important to live somewhere you like for the 5-6 years of grad school, but then you've got your whole career to worry about. Yeesh.

 

So, I don't know. Program in the 20s vs program in the 40s-50s; that's a big gap, but at the same time, I think I could do good work at either place and Boston is more desirable than New Brunswick. Decisions, decisions!

 

Even as a waitlister Brandeis has been so nice to me. I know they only have a couple of spots, but I got the exact same vibe you did: faculty seemed incredibly engaged with students, they knew my application up and down, and honestly, it's hard to imagine not being able to do amazing work in Boston. I'm feeling somewhat confident I'll go with my first offer (from a top 5 program that I loved on visit days), but getting off the waitlist at Brandeis would make my decision much harder. They're that awesome.

 

I was offered admission but waitlisted for funding at Rutgers and I have to tell you, it was not an awesome feeling. No faculty reached out to me after the offer was made, I wasn't able to visit, I had a weird phone interview... 

Anyhow, if in an alternate universe I was looking at only those two schools and I got off the waitlist at Brandeis and off the funding waitlist at Rutgers, I'd choose Brandeis based on my interactions with those two programs. 

Edited March 18, 2013 by oilandvinegar

[La_Di_Da]

DarthVegan:

 

Re.: "I am also quite happy with my PhD offers at the moment, both in terms of the faculty I would work with and the relative prestige/and or recent job placements." 

 

As an objective outsider, when I contrast this sentence with the rest of the content in your previous post, I can't help but think that this one sentence says it all. I believe, but don't take my word for it, that you already have your answer. Just a hunch. 

Edited March 18, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[Darth.Vegan]

DarthVegan:

 

Re.: "I am also quite happy with my PhD offers at the moment, both in terms of the faculty I would work with and the relative prestige/and or recent job placements." 

 

As an objective outsider, when I contrast this sentence with the rest of the content in your previous post, I can't help but think that this one sentence says it all. I believe, but don't take my word for it, that you already have your answer. Just a hunch. 

 

 

I get what you're saying and that will be my likely course of action. On top of that, I'm not able to visit Michigan because the travel stipend is about $115 short of covering the actual cost of the ticket. Interestingly enough, I am even considering giving up UCI for UCSD even though UCI is better ranked and more importantly has a strong upward trend. However, faculty at UCSD were very cordial, extremely familiar with my application, and the location is basically to die for. At this point I feel like I am just waiting on UCSD to make a funding offer I can't refuse. I was really hoping Oregon would make me fall in love and it almost did. Eugene is amazing, and I have great friends both in Eugene and Portland, however I was really turned off by the departmental visit. Everyone was really nice but it was just SUPER impersonal. Also the funding for years 2-4 is scary low. 

[1848ce]

I'm pretty sure I know where I will end up, no matter what happens between now and 4/15. However, I want to delay my final decision for the sake of funding and waitlists.

My school of choice is recruiting me really heavily and even upped my funding again last night. How do I convey that I am very interested in the program (off-the-record, I'm pretty certain I will attend), but that I am not yet ready to make a decision? I don't want it to sound like I am stringing them along; I just really want to keep my options open and make as informed of a decision as possible.

EDIT: Reading back over this, I may have answered my own question. Still wouldn't mind input.

Edited March 19, 2013 by 1848ce

[Darth.Vegan]

I'm pretty sure I know where I will end up, no matter what happens between now and 4/15. However, I want to delay my final decision for the sake of funding and waitlists.

My school of choice is recruiting me really heavily and even upped my funding again last night. How do I convey that I am very interested in the program (off-the-record, I'm pretty certain I will attend), but that I am not yet ready to make a decision? I don't want it to sound like I am stringing them along; I just really want to keep my options open and make as informed of a decision as possible.

EDIT: Reading back over this, I may have answered my own question. Still wouldn't mind input.

 

 

From what I've seen recently, even if you've declined all of your other offers and know where you want to attend, there is a little advantage in accepting an offer before April 15th. Some schools will continue to apply for fellowships and funding opportunities for folks that have yet to accept. I say hold out at least until the 1st week of April. 

[sociologyinthepast]

I firmly believe that one's future job prospects are determined more by the spirit and quality of one's work than program ranking. Likewise, your work will shine brightest as a result of choosing the program where you, yourself, may shine brightly -- i.e., were you will do your best work, become your best self. And that equation is not linear. My only (unsolicited) advice: trust yourself, for no one else knows you--your needs--better than you. Wishing you all the best as you make your final decision.

 

Thanks for the earnest and kind advice - it's what I'm trying to keep in mind as I  make my decision. I'm convinced that I'd do good work at both programs, but I think the chance to involve myself closely with professional networks of faculty who work in the fields I'm interested in makes the bigger (and more well-networked) program more desirable. I don't want to say no to Boston, but ...

 

Even as a waitlister Brandeis has been so nice to me. I know they only have a couple of spots, but I got the exact same vibe you did: faculty seemed incredibly engaged with students, they knew my application up and down, and honestly, it's hard to imagine not being able to do amazing work in Boston. I'm feeling somewhat confident I'll go with my first offer (from a top 5 program that I loved on visit days), but getting off the waitlist at Brandeis would make my decision much harder. They're that awesome.

 

I was offered admission but waitlisted for funding at Rutgers and I have to tell you, it was not an awesome feeling. No faculty reached out to me after the offer was made, I wasn't able to visit, I had a weird phone interview... 

Anyhow, if in an alternate universe I was looking at only those two schools and I got off the waitlist at Brandeis and off the funding waitlist at Rutgers, I'd choose Brandeis based on my interactions with those two programs. 

 

Honestly, my guess is that the waitlist and accepted experiences are pretty different. It sucks to hear that you had a lousy experience so far, but I found the Rutgers faculty forthcoming, cordial, and very willing to engage with students. And I just had a phone conversation with one of the most important members of the faculty last night, whose work is really awesome and lines up scarily well with mine. 

 

So, as much as I like the Boston area, I'm probably going with Rutgers unless my visit to Albany next week is real wowzer. (So there might be a waitlist spot open at Brandeis in a week or so ...)

 

And glad to hear you've got another strong option that you're leaning toward! Waitlists and funding waitlists are super frustrating, so I'm pleased that you aren't stuck with those as your only options. 

[oilandvinegar]

Honestly, my guess is that the waitlist and accepted experiences are pretty different. It sucks to hear that you had a lousy experience so far, but I found the Rutgers faculty forthcoming, cordial, and very willing to engage with students. And I just had a phone conversation with one of the most important members of the faculty last night, whose work is really awesome and lines up scarily well with mine. 

 

So, as much as I like the Boston area, I'm probably going with Rutgers unless my visit to Albany next week is real wowzer. (So there might be a waitlist spot open at Brandeis in a week or so ...)

 

I definitely agree that waitlist and accepted experiences are probably different. It stinks that waitlisted students don't get to have those positive interactions, though, because many programs will end pulling a person or two up from the waitlist and if very little has been done to make that student feel engaged, it's pretty hard to compare to an initial offer with all those positive interactions to a waitlisted one with almost no engagement. I know some programs include waitlisted students in the visit days, and some don't, though I'm sure this is function of funds available.

 

As for me, I'm not on the funding waitlist anymore; I rejected my offer last week.

Sounds like Rutgers did a good job of recruiting the students they offered funding to, so hopefully they get the cohort they're looking for!

 

Have fun in Albany, and cheers to everyone knowing where they're going soon!

[amlobo]

I definitely agree that waitlist and accepted experiences are probably different. It stinks that waitlisted students don't get to have those positive interactions, though, because many programs will end pulling a person or two up from the waitlist and if very little has been done to make that student feel engaged, it's pretty hard to compare to an initial offer with all those positive interactions to a waitlisted one with almost no engagement. I know some programs include waitlisted students in the visit days, and some don't, though I'm sure this is function of funds available.

 

As for me, I'm not on the funding waitlist anymore; I rejected my offer last week.

Sounds like Rutgers did a good job of recruiting the students they offered funding to, so hopefully they get the cohort they're looking for!

 

Have fun in Albany, and cheers to everyone knowing where they're going soon!

 

Just commenting to say I love your signature and wholeheartedly agree, lol

[La_Di_Da]

And I just had a phone conversation with one of the most important members of the faculty last night, whose work is really awesome and lines up scarily well with mine. 

 

That near perfect alignment of research interests was definitely one factor that helped me shore up my decision. Good stuff.

Edited March 19, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[sociologyinthepast]

That near perfect alignment of research interests was definitely one factor that helped me shore up my decision. Good stuff.

 

Yup, that call just about sealed the deal. Looking back on my first round through PhD programs, I realize how few conversations I actually had with faculty that might predict any kind of positive research relationship - probably why that program didn't end up being a good fit.

 

Also, when I referenced "one of the most important members of the faculty" in my earlier post, I meant important to me in terms of interests and potential advising - not important in some abstract or prestige-related sense

[La_Di_Da]

 At this point I feel like I am just waiting on UCSD to make a funding offer I can't refuse.

 

May the gods be listening! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you. Highly doubt I'd have to go as far as making any burnt offerings on your behalf. But if you want me to do one just in case, I do have the requisite classics background, so I'm sure I can determine the proper propitiation forms if need be. (Of course, I jest.) I'm wishing you all the best, DV, as you make your final decision.