GWU as a Rising Political Science Program?

[brandnewtothis]

This was briefly mentioned in another thread but I think this is worth discussing.

 

I am considering GWU over some other schools despite its currently low rankings and weak placements.

 

I think the political science program has been revamped and they are currently picking up more professors and pushing the program to improve their ranking and reputation.

 

I don't know if it will be a top-tier program any time soon, but I think they are worth more consideration than what their rankings and current placements suggest.

 

What do you all think of the program?

[PoliSwede]

I heard through a friend that was admitted to GWU that they're apparently throwing money after prospective PhD students, precisely because they are aiming to build their program. Take that for what it's worth.

[brandnewtothis]

Do you think the new classes will place better?

 

I'm honestly a little nervous.  GW has some great professors that I really want to work with but I of course would like that to translate into something for the future.

[PoliSwede]

I briefly looked at their website and I can't locate a list of their placements, so I don't really have an understanding of where they have placed in the past. However, I do have the impression that PhDs from GWU are more likely (than other programs) to head into the policy world, or some other work outside academia. GWU's location is likely to contribute to this.

 

I'm sure that they also do their best in order to prepare their students for academics careers, but I can't really speak to that.

 

Maybe someone else has more knowledge of the program at GWU that can help you.

[mr. white]

I have also been accepted to GW, but placed on the alternate list for funding. GW is my first choice, and from that perspective, I would prefer if you rejected the offer.

 

At the same time, I am curious to know, if you don't mind sharing, what's your subfield and what particular professors you're interested in working with? GW has people like Barnett and Finnemore, who are (with Wendt, Blyth and a few other people the leading constructivist scholars). I definitely think this is a good sign, especially as I am interested in working with them on issues of global governance and international security. And also, for policy-related jobs, GW is definitely a top-tier program. By when do you think you'll decide?

[brandnewtothis]

Here's their placement history:

 

http://www.gwu.edu/~psc/grad/placement.htm

 

As you can see, it's definitely a mixed bag.  Some okay schools, some lower ranked schools, CRS, a LOT of foreign universities, and a lot of defense/intelligence colleges.

[brandnewtothis]

I'm on the alternate list as well btw - hopefully we both get in with full funding mr. white!

[PoliSwede]

Here's their placement history:

 

http://www.gwu.edu/~psc/grad/placement.htm

 

As you can see, it's definitely a mixed bag.  Some okay schools, some lower ranked schools, CRS, a LOT of foreign universities, and a lot of defense/intelligence colleges.

That is a bit of a mixed bag. They do however have recent placements at schools such as University of Oregon and University of Toronto, both tenure track and schools that I wouldn't mind being placed at as a first job! You might want to look at some of their graduates and find out how many publications they had when they went on the market and what kind of placement they got.

 

As for turning down offers, my friend is going to turn down GWU (if he hasn't already). So there's a little help for you guys at least.

[brandnewtothis]

That is a bit of a mixed bag. They do however have recent placements at schools such as University of Oregon and University of Toronto, both tenure track and schools that I wouldn't mind being placed at as a first job! You might want to look at some of their graduates and find out how many publications they had when they went on the market and what kind of placement they got.

 

As for turning down offers, my friend is going to turn down GWU (if he hasn't already). So there's a little help for you guys at least.

 

Yeah, it's pretty interesting to see that range.  I think it's probably a combination of student performance/ambition (honestly) along with the department's change.

 

What do you guys think of the NRC rankings, where GWU jumped up to the top 25 in political science, and even ranked above some more established programs likes UCLA's?

 

I honestly do believe in GWU - I just need them to believe in me and get me off the alternate bench!

 

Tell you friend to formally decline them ASAP!!! We can't wait forever!

[brandnewtothis]

Wow I just looked the guy up, and the University of London placement is SOAS!  Definitely not a bad placement at all!!!

Edited March 6, 2013 by brandnewtothis

[mr. white]

Does your friend go as dmet on the forum? Also, mind sharing his/her subfield, Lemeard?

yeah, brandnewtothis, I hope we get it...Do you know how many people are on the alternate list?

 

Thanks..

[PoliSwede]

N

Does your friend go as dmet on the forum? Also, mind sharing his/her subfield, Lemeard?

No, he's not dmet. And American.

[sincereheart]

just curious about this topic since GWU ranks so differently in NRC ranking and US News rankings. 

And, how do people think about GWU against Georgetown? 

[raptureonfire]

I have also been accepted to GW, but placed on the alternate list for funding. GW is my first choice, and from that perspective, I would prefer if you rejected the offer.

 

At the same time, I am curious to know, if you don't mind sharing, what's your subfield and what particular professors you're interested in working with? GW has people like Barnett and Finnemore, who are (with Wendt, Blyth and a few other people the leading constructivist scholars). I definitely think this is a good sign, especially as I am interested in working with them on issues of global governance and international security. And also, for policy-related jobs, GW is definitely a top-tier program. By when do you think you'll decide?

 

 

It's not an easy decision to make, to be sure.

 

As a policy school, GWU is a leader.  As for its academic-focus ... well, I can only tell you what I know from multiple conversations with several of its professors.  There are some very strong faculty members at GWU, including Michael Barnett, Martha Finnemore, and Henry Hale.

 

I met with about 5 or 6 professors last summer/fall when discussing applying to the PhD program.  Each one of them essentially told me the same two things:

• GWU is working hard to improve its standing in the academic world;
• Go to the best ranked program I could.

So, take that for what it's worth.

 

Now, I suppose there are some exceptions.  What exactly do you want to study?  If you are at all interested in Russia/Eurasia, the Elliot School has an extremely strong program with IERES.  They have Henry Hale, of course.  But they also have PONARS, and I think they're only going to improve over the next year or two.  PONARS alone is reason to consider the school - again, in the case that you want to study Russia/Eurasia.

 

 

Sincereheart:

just curious about this topic since GWU ranks so differently in NRC ranking and US News rankings. 

And, how do people think about GWU against Georgetown?

 

Between the two, I would probably choose Georgetown.  They are often ranked closely with each other; however, Georgetown's name carries with it significantly more prestige and recognition.

 

 

 

Brandnewtothis

What do you guys think of the NRC rankings, where GWU jumped up to the top 25 in political science, and even ranked above some more established programs likes UCLA's?

 

The NRC rankings seem to be relatively contentious; I'm honestly not sure what to make of them.  Particularly since you can rank schools by different criteria.  I definitely view GWU as a rising school, though I wouldn't be confident placing it in the top 25.  Not because it's not a top-quality school (I really believe it is), but because other schools have made longer, bigger investments in a curriculum for preparing academics (as opposed to policy experts).  But then again, what the heck do I know!

 

So, those are my thoughts

[tokenaustralian]

I have also been accepted to GW, but placed on the alternate list for funding. GW is my first choice, and from that perspective, I would prefer if you rejected the offer.

 

At the same time, I am curious to know, if you don't mind sharing, what's your subfield and what particular professors you're interested in working with? GW has people like Barnett and Finnemore, who are (with Wendt, Blyth and a few other people the leading constructivist scholars). I definitely think this is a good sign, especially as I am interested in working with them on issues of global governance and international security. And also, for policy-related jobs, GW is definitely a top-tier program. By when do you think you'll decide?

 

To those of you who have said you are 'on the alternate list for funding', did your letter of admission specifically state that?  I have been accepted to GWU, but was told something along the lines of 'no funding at this time, if some becomes available you will receive full consideration'.  Is this also what you were told?

 

Also, is your funding guaranteed for the full five years, or is it up for renewal every year?

 

Thanks.

[jabolcnipolz]

To those of you who have said you are 'on the alternate list for funding', did your letter of admission specifically state that?  I have been accepted to GWU, but was told something along the lines of 'no funding at this time, if some becomes available you will receive full consideration'.  Is this also what you were told?

 

Also, is your funding guaranteed for the full five years, or is it up for renewal every year?

 

Thanks.

I got the same wording. In another thread (the acceptances thread, I think) it seemed that there was an "alternate" list for assistantships, so maybe there are three tiers of accepted students? If that's the case, I wonder exactly how far down the list we are for funding

[tokenaustralian]

I got the same wording. In another thread (the acceptances thread, I think) it seemed that there was an "alternate" list for assistantships, so maybe there are three tiers of accepted students? If that's the case, I wonder exactly how far down the list we are for funding

 

Exactly!  I was also thinking three tiers.

[ABC13]

Hi,

 

I saw a link on the Duck of Minerva blog today about this place and it seems to be a fantastic resource!  As chance would have it, I'm currently a PhD student in Psc at GW and in the spirit of providing information in what I remember to be a ridiculously difficult decision-making process, I thought I'd try to give as much information as I can.    Of course, this only reflects my own opinion/perception and should be taken with a grain of salt.  I certainly can't speak for everyone here.

 

I suppose I'd start by saying these are precisely the sorts of questions you should be asking yourself as you decide on a program....and I'm sure you'll get the chance to talk to faculty and students about them during admit days.  That said, here are some thoughts:

 

1.  Yes, I think GW is invested in improving its reputation, and when the new US News rankings come out, I wouldn't be surprised if GW bumps up a bit. 

 

2.  Yes, our placement is less than ideal. Why might this be the case? 

 

Generally, GW differs from other "top" phd programs in its work obligation.  PhD students (with very few exceptions) are required to either TA for roughly 60 students a semester or provide 20hrs/week of research work for faculty every semester of their tenure in the program.  These work loads are heavy and mean that by the time you have carved out half of your week to working for the faculty you have have little time to A: do your own coursework  and even less to B: work on your own research.  Unlike most programs, you won't get a year (or even semester) "off" here----(called a "fellowship year" at other places).  This costs the program quite a bit, though I'm not sure it recognizes this.  Our students don't publish as much as students at other top tier programs, largely because we simply have quite a bit less time to work on anything of our own.  This happens in the summer too.  Unlike programs that provide summer funding of a livable wage, GW pays only up to about 2,500 in summer funding (so you'll likely need a job on the side to pay those three months of DC rent) and all of that 2,500 iis tied to you coding/doing slave work/etc for faculty members (i.e. a RAship).   I didn't understand the value of having fellowship years when I started looking at PhD programs, but trust me, it's important.  And while you can learn A LOT from an RA gig, there are diminishing returns for each additional semester/summer you devote to that coding project (which is often in a completely different field than the one you work in)!

 

3.  The faculty are really fantastic here.  Sure, all departments have bad eggs, but I tend to think we have fewer here than the norm.  The profs at GW are thoughtful, creative, and interesting folks.  That's a big plus.

 

4.  GW isn't a "policy school."  I've heard this come up before, but I'm not sure why its circulating. Most students here plan to have an academic job at the end.  If they jump to the policy world it's likely more a reflection of them learning about outside options (due to living in a city with lots of think tank and policy jobs) and by the time you've been living at the poverty line long enough (grad student stipends), I guarentee you'd be interested in jumping to a livable wage too .

 

5. I don't regret my decision to come to GW.  That said, I think it's important that students make informed decisions.  If you were admitted to a place with stellar placement which doesnt' require work obligations every semester, you should look at it very seriously.  GW is a lovely place with lovely people, but if you can't get a job at the end of the day, all that loveliness isn't worth all that much.....

 

Good luck!

Edited March 7, 2013 by ABC13

[mr. white]

@tokenaustralian Yes, the e-mail said clearly that we are on the alternate list for graduate assistantships, rather than "no funding available this time."

I think already 3 people have said somewhere that they'll be rejecting the offer with funding, which means the space is slowly opening for the rest of us. Good luck to everyone waiting!

[brandnewtothis]

As chance would have it, I'm currently a PhD student in Psc at GW and in the spirit of providing information in what I remember to be a ridiculously difficult decision-making process, I thought I'd try to give as much information as I can.

 

Thank you so much for this post ABC13!  To be honest, this makes it a much less appealing option.  Is there any chance they might improve this situation?

 

This might explain why I saw that the students who got better placements often had master's degrees that preceded the PhD.

[brandnewtothis]

Did anyone else see anything about being an alternate for a "University fellowship" on their admissions letter?  This wasn't mentioned by the department's email.  What is it?

[ABC13]

Thank you so much for this post ABC13!  To be honest, this makes it a much less appealing option.  Is there any chance they might improve this situation?

 

This might explain why I saw that the students who got better placements often had master's degrees that preceded the PhD.

Didn't mean to discourage you, just to provide information.  Placement problems are not unique to GW---the market has been terrible for a number of years now and many schools have had a harder time placing graduates than normal.  That said, not all schools of similar ranks have struggled equally in this terrible market.  Some have done quite well, others not (GW has fared poorly here).  This is just something to look out for during your admit visits. 

 

General rule of thumb---you need to ask hard questions at your admit visits.  Ask:  How many students from your dept *this* year HAVE placed, and where?  (If they can't tell you or won't tell you, that's a bad sign).  In the last few years, what percentage of students on the market from your department are able to land a TT job (depts usually only advertise their success stories, but you need to know how many students struck out on the market each year, not just how many placed).  If the placement is less than ideal, ask what *new* things the dept plans to do next year to help boost its placement.  If the answer is that they already feel they're doing enough (and the outcome is not what you're looking for), that's not a promising signal to you....

Edited March 7, 2013 by ABC13

[Mnemonics2]

Don't mean to make myself a target of "let them know" messages, but I've been accepted (waitlist for full funding but funded enough to go) and I'm thinking I'll maybe pass. I have to visit there and another place, but I should be able to let them know soon.

[jabolcnipolz]

ABC13, thanks for your really helpful posts. I would presume that those who aren't funded by GW are not bound by that work obligation?

[ABC13]

ABC13, thanks for your really helpful posts. I would presume that those who aren't funded by GW are not bound by that work obligation?

Very true.  If you have external funding, you'll be in good shape!