MA in Israel? My Dilemma...

[mranderson]

Hello,

 

I am an American who is deeply interested in international security, conflict resolution, and the Middle East. I find the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be the most interesting international affairs "issue", and Israel's foreign relations are generally of great interest to me.

 

I am considering Tel Aviv University's MA in Security and Diplomacy program. Here's why:

• The opportunity to study my favorite IR conflicts/topics in the most relevant locale possible.
• One-year program
• About a third of the cost of other programs I'm considering
• The opportunity to learn Hebrew and Arabic
• I love traveling and living outside of the US!

However, I have some concerns with regard to employment:

• This is not internationally recognized as a "top" program, and while I value the on-the-ground experience I would get, I'm not sure if employers would care.
• Most of the Middle East does not recognize Israel. Would this in turn affect employment possibilities in the Middle East?
• What would my employment prospects presumably be in general?

I would be most appreciative of any feedback.

 

Thanks

[ansac111]

I really don't know anything about the program but studying security studies in Israel do sound interesting...It would surely provide you different perspective, however you should also think about your employability. where do you want to work after your MA? You are right in assessing that , on a general level a degree from Israel does not have the same cache as a degree from US and UK, on the other hand you may be able to meet some niche demand for a mid-east policy expert with some on-ground experience.

 

Also, are you jewish? the reason why I am asking is, as a plan B (and if you're interested) you can make aliyah and find employment in foreign policy circles in Israel.   

[MollyB]

Have you looked at where alumni have ended up? 

 

The opportunity to learn Hebrew or Arabic could be fantastic. But do you know either already? If you don't, I'd think you'd be able to start only on one language if it's a one-year program. Arabic and Hebrew, as I'm sure you know, each have very different scripts and just learning the alphabet will take up a few weeks. I would think that, of the two, Arabic would be a more useful language to learn, but I've also seen job postings at places like Brookings (I don't know your political leanings, of course) that want Hebrew proficiency. But as there are more countries that speak Arabic than Hebrew, I'd still think Arabic would be more useful. If you're studying in Tel Aviv though, presumably you won't have the chance for (as much) Arabic emersion. 

 

ETA: As for employability, I think you're right to be concerned. I'd assume that non-partisan and center-right  think tanks in the U.S. would highly value your experience, but maybe not places like CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) or similar. I worked for a prominent and somewhat controversial (at least to the public) leftist organization for a while. When I interviewed with banks and consulting groups after, I got a few snide remarks in interviews. I have no idea if it cost me any job offers, but such remarks also helped me quickly realize that I could never abide by the culture of most banks / consulting groups. So consider carefully whether the doors you shut are ones you'd ever care about down the road (and maybe you'll decide you don't care about those doors, in which case, go to Tel Aviv and do awesome and peaceful things!) 

Edited March 25, 2013 by MollyB

[ss1987]

there are quite a few great US options (I can think of GWU and LBJ off the top of my head) that partner with Israeli schools, IDC - esp if youre interested in government and diplomacy for dual degree programs and study abroad options. Honstly, Tel Aviv U's program is not especially well known in the field, and youd be better off going to a better school and connecting research/internship options back to Israel. Yes - I really think studying in Israel might limit some of your options in other middle eastern countries - but it really depends where you intern and work as well.

 I used to live in Israel and worked in conflict resolution activist groups while there, so if you have more specific questions feel free to message me!

[mranderson]

Upon graduation I would want to work...well...anywhere, honestly. I am not Jewish, Muslim, or Middle Eastern.

 

I don't speak Hebrew or Arabic already. And it's true...I imagine that unless I went out of my way to connect with Israeli Arabs/Palestinians, actually becoming proficient in Arabic would prove to be difficult during my time in Israel.

 

I'm a lefty. I want to go to Israel for the pursuit of knowledge and to follow my interests. I want to gain as intimate an understanding as possible of Israeli and Palestinian society. I would hate to be seen in the future as someone who has a biased perspective (pro-Israel, in this case). I already have experience in a predominately Muslim country, so I hope that would help in negating perceived bias.

 

So is IDC Herzliya the place to go, then? (If I decide to study in Israel at all, that is?) It does seem a bit right-wing, though...

 

I'm also concerned about how liberal (or not) the academic environment in Israel is...I mean...do I have to worry about talking about sensitive topics in class? Can I feel free to criticize Israel? Because at the end of the day, feeling free to express my true sentiments is the most important thing.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[MollyB]

... 

I'm a lefty. I want to go to Israel for the pursuit of knowledge and to follow my interests. I want to gain as intimate an understanding as possible of Israeli and Palestinian society. I would hate to be seen in the future as someone who has a biased perspective (pro-Israel, in this case). I already have experience in a predominately Muslim country, so I hope that would help in negating perceived bias.

 

So is IDC Herzliya the place to go, then? (If I decide to study in Israel at all, that is?) It does seem a bit right-wing, though...

 

I'm also concerned about how liberal (or not) the academic environment in Israel is...I mean...do I have to worry about talking about sensitive topics in class? Can I feel free to criticize Israel? Because at the end of the day, feeling free to express my true sentiments is the most important thing.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

I think, especially if you come from the U.S., you'll be very, very disappointed with the intellectual freedom you'll find in Israel, especially as a liberal. There are of course pockets of liberal, vocal Israelis, but they're becoming a smaller portion of the population, and they're especially becoming marginalized in the country's politics. In the same way that it'd have been wrong in the 2000s to equate all Americans with President Bush's politics, it'd of course be wrong to assume that everyone in Israel agrees with PM Netanyahu. But Israel is a much smaller country and doesn't have the same history of liberal domination of academia that the U.S. does. I can't speak about Tel Aviv University in particular but Tel Aviv, which a modern and very cosmopolitan city in its appearance, is much more religiously conservative than you might think. If you're a woman and not dressed "modestly," you will get harassed on the street. People might not look kindly on an American in their midst criticizing their country, especially if you have no religious, cultural or ethnic connection to the region. 

 

Others feel free to disagree with me please but, in my opinion, I think you should avoid getting a degree from Tel Aviv University and/or any other Israeli university if you want the sort of freedom of expression you're used to in American universities and if you want to avoid the perception of bias later on.

 

There are tons of U.S. government-funded programs to learn Arabic, you might look into those. I think getting language skills should be your first priority, then you'll have tons more options for studying in Palestine, Israel, and any other countries in the region that interest you. Once you start learning Arabic as an American, there will not be a shortage of people trying to pay you to get better at it, believe me (just Google it). 

[XYZMan]

I would study in the US and apply for a Boren Fellowship.

[ss1987]

IDC is very conservative, so if youre pretty liberal than yes, I would avoid it. I'd only recommend it if you were interested in American/Israeli diplomacy.

I completely disagree with MollyB about needing to dress modestly if you live in Tel Aviv, thats just ridiculous. In Jerusalem or smaller cities yes, you would need to. BUT if you really wanted to gain an intimate understanding of Israel and Palestinian society, and get a well rounded sense of the conflicts and issues in Israel, Tel Aviv is the wrong place to live - its a really modern 'bubble', and its pretty easy to go about your daily life without being confronted with harsh truths.

 

 I agree with MollyB about Israeli universities and studying there. Perhaps consider interning/working at an Israel/Palestinian organization to supplement your degree? There are a TON of activist nonprofits in Israel and Palestine, and they are usually very interested in taking on native english speakers as interns - and would especially be interested in someone who is learning Arabic.

[yhakak]

MollyB, Are you kidding me? Dressing modestly in Tel Aviv? The most liberal, gay-friendly city in the middle east? I am wondering whether you've actually ever been to Israel...

 

I am from Jerusalem and have a degree from Tel Aviv University, so i speak with a certain amount of bias, but much of what you say is just wrong. For example, the liberal bias in Israeli academia is, if anything, more pronounced than it is in the USA (see for example a group, which i think are a bunch of idiots, called "Im Tirzu" which harass professors for being too liberal and not supporting Israeli militarism, the constant debates in the knesset about the left-wing bent of the universities, etc.)...

 

One of the problems i think you will encounter if you're american (and I am one) is that Israeli university programs are much more structured and there's less independent work, which sometimes grates on my nerves, coming from a slightly different intellectual tradition.

 

Regarding the IDC: inside Israel the IDC is not so well-regarded as the universities, it has a reputation for being a place where privileged kids from North Tel Aviv go to buy a law or business degree. I'd go for one of the universities (Tel Aviv or the Hebrew University).

 

And as for " People might not look kindly on an American in their midst criticizing their country" we Israelis don't take kindly to anything, we're kind of an abrasive people. Don't take it personally 

 

PM me if i can help with any specific information about Tel Aviv university...

 

I think, especially if you come from the U.S., you'll be very, very disappointed with the intellectual freedom you'll find in Israel, especially as a liberal. There are of course pockets of liberal, vocal Israelis, but they're becoming a smaller portion of the population, and they're especially becoming marginalized in the country's politics. In the same way that it'd have been wrong in the 2000s to equate all Americans with President Bush's politics, it'd of course be wrong to assume that everyone in Israel agrees with PM Netanyahu. But Israel is a much smaller country and doesn't have the same history of liberal domination of academia that the U.S. does. I can't speak about Tel Aviv University in particular but Tel Aviv, which a modern and very cosmopolitan city in its appearance, is much more religiously conservative than you might think. If you're a woman and not dressed "modestly," you will get harassed on the street. People might not look kindly on an American in their midst criticizing their country, especially if you have no religious, cultural or ethnic connection to the region. 

 

Others feel free to disagree with me please but, in my opinion, I think you should avoid getting a degree from Tel Aviv University and/or any other Israeli university if you want the sort of freedom of expression you're used to in American universities and if you want to avoid the perception of bias later on.

 

There are tons of U.S. government-funded programs to learn Arabic, you might look into those. I think getting language skills should be your first priority, then you'll have tons more options for studying in Palestine, Israel, and any other countries in the region that interest you. Once you start learning Arabic as an American, there will not be a shortage of people trying to pay you to get better at it, believe me (just Google it). 

[Kadisha]

If you're planning to get any kind of employment in the ME outside of Israel then you're probably looking at the wrong program. The amount of hate towards Israel and Jews in general harbored by the people in the ME is leaps and bounds beyond what anyone that doesn't live there can come to understand.

 

I lived in Lebanon for 17 years. Have been to Iraq, Egypt, and Jordan. The opinion of Israel is almost 99% everywhere. I admire your goals though. I just would not get a degree from an Israeli university.

[yhakak]

That is certainly true. If you're looking to work anywhere in the Arab world, a degree from an Israeli university is a distinct liability. 

 

If you're planning to get any kind of employment in the ME outside of Israel then you're probably looking at the wrong program. The amount of hate towards Israel and Jews in general harbored by the people in the ME is leaps and bounds beyond what anyone that doesn't live there can come to understand.

 

I lived in Lebanon for 17 years. Have been to Iraq, Egypt, and Jordan. The opinion of Israel is almost 99% everywhere. I admire your goals though. I just would not get a degree from an Israeli university.

[MollyB]

If you're planning to get any kind of employment in the ME outside of Israel then you're probably looking at the wrong program. The amount of hate towards Israel and Jews in general harbored by the people in the ME is leaps and bounds beyond what anyone that doesn't live there can come to understand.

 

I lived in Lebanon for 17 years. Have been to Iraq, Egypt, and Jordan. The opinion of Israel is almost 99% everywhere. I admire your goals though. I just would not get a degree from an Israeli university.

 

Hey now, let's not paint the entirety of "the people in the Middle East" with one brush. Saying everyone in the Middle East "hates" Israelis or Jews is belittling, essentialist, and just plain wrong. It's also totally irrelevant to a conversation about where someone should pursue higher education. It betrays a lack of sophistication about Arabs from someone who claims to have lived in Lebanon for 17 years.

 

As for the comments disagreeing with me about Tel Aviv: that's totally fine, like I said before, I'm just one biased opinion and I did say Tel Aviv was a very modern, cosmopolitan city. That said, I'll add that I'm a dark skinned woman, so it's possible we've experienced different things because of how we look, if you happen to look different from me. 

[Kadisha]

Hey now, let's not paint the entirety of "the people in the Middle East" with one brush. Saying everyone in the Middle East "hates" Israelis or Jews is belittling, essentialist, and just plain wrong. It's also totally irrelevant to a conversation about where someone should pursue higher education. It betrays a lack of sophistication about Arabs from someone who claims to have lived in Lebanon for 17 years.

 

As for the comments disagreeing with me about Tel Aviv: that's totally fine, like I said before, I'm just one biased opinion and I did say Tel Aviv was a very modern, cosmopolitan city. That said, I'll add that I'm a dark skinned woman, so it's possible we've experienced different things because of how we look, if you happen to look different from me. 

 

It's called being realistic. 

 

I do not get paid in my current position to look "sophisticated", and neither will I bend the truth to make sure people do not get their feelings hurt. I think this is essentially the issue with people that have actually been to the Middle-East and have had conversations with people there versus somebody who just wants to be politically correct. It does pertain to this conversation, because mranderson was wondering about work in the Middle-East. So no thank you for much I'm not going to fix my opinion as to not offend you. And FYI, I doubt anyone gave you the privilege to decide what is relevant or irrelevant to this conversation.

 

The level of indoctrination from pre-school against Israel and the Jews in the Middle-East is quiet astonishing and completely racist. It is based on pan-Arabist ideology, that mind you due to the Palestinian cause is infallible. It starts of with the conspiracy theories about Zionism and ends with a completely subjective portrayal of said conflict . To disagree with such a view will either get you arrested or killed. I dare you to find a significant number of Arab intellectuals that dare to speak on the mainstream media about the ridiculousness of the Arab-Israeli conflict. And if you do I would like you to find the amount of those intellectuals that actually live in an Arab country.

 

It's these kinds of deluded tree hugging opinions that I look forward to seeing in grad school.

 

Forgot to add: 

 

Since your "dark skinned" woman. I really hope you know Arabic fluently, and are not basing this of translated media coverage. I can assure you that Arabic Aljazeera and English Al-Jazeera are not exactly the same thing. 

Edited March 28, 2013 by Kadisha