UChicago's MAPH Program

[Minnesotan]

The impression I've gotten about Chicago's MAPH program is that it's a second-rate degree from a first-rate school.

...and most people have to pay for it. I had a buddy who went there with 1/3 funding, whatever that means. I think the degree is one step above a scam. Kind of like summer intensive language programs.

Don't pay to do grad work.

[happygolucky]

most people have to pay for most MA degrees no matter the school. it sounds like UChicago's MAPH program is no different from most MA degrees in terms of not offering much in funding. But you know, they could be considered more awesome for giving much of anything (like those 1/3 and 1/2 tuition remissions) while many schools give nothing at all.

[Minnesotan]

most people have to pay for most MA degrees no matter the school.

Not true. Most good schools offer you at least a TAship to pay the bills. I would seriously reconsider going to graduate school if you have to pay for it! Better to wait a year and hope you get into a legitimate program, where you will receive academic and financial support.

[happygolucky]

at the MA level? list these schools, please because the good grad schools and most of their programs that I've looked at don't and my experience on these grad school sites have gathered that most of the people pay for their MA or find outside funding.

[jasper.milvain]

Everyone I know (including myself) TAed or RAed their way through their MA degrees, with the exception of a few with creative jobs they didn't want to give up, massive external funding, or no bills to pay cause they still lived with mom. The fact that English has much higher enrollment in intro classes than anthropology does may explain why you're not seeing as many funded MA programs, happygolucky.

[happygolucky]

oh, see. i didn't realize we were just talking about english programs (which i haven't really looked at, honestly). i thought we were talking about generally and generally i really haven't seen much internal funding for MA programs unless you're getting the MA en route to a PhD.

i need to change my 'field interest' tag on my name because while I applied to two anthro programs last year, i'm not really into anthro really. it's just one of those programs without lots of walls and barriers to various interests and those are the sorts of programs i have looked into. the MAPSS and MAPH programs at U of Chicago seemed really awesome to me for even offering a little funding (but i'm not really into chicago or the programs themselves) so when i see people saying it's a rip off i think, "man! i'll tell you what's a rip off! the anthro MA program i got into at columbia. no money at all. no chance of money at all! and when I called to find out what kind of options they knew about it was a dead end." i wish MAPSS and MAPH were programs i could work and where I want to be but no dice.

So that's where I'm coming from- in a thread talking about an interdisciplinary degree program i thought the conversation was looking at programs beyond English and literature.

[jasper.milvain]

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that a thread on interdisciplinary programs should be limited to examples from English. I was just suggesting a possible reason for the difference between your view and Minnesotan's. Since you asked for examples of MAs that are funded, I offered some from my experience.

[Minnesotan]

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that a thread on interdisciplinary programs should be limited to examples from English. I was just suggesting a possible reason for the difference between your view and Minnesotan's. Since you asked for examples of MAs that are funded, I offered some from my experience.

Mmhmm. You're probably right, Jasper. I am spoiled in my secure role as a trained First Year Writing instructor. I can get a (low-paying, under-appreciated) job in any town as an adjunct. However, I also did an interdisciplinary MA, and I still received a TAship, though I had to beat the pavement to secure the one for my second year. Still, I'm willing to put out ten or twelve applications across campus, if it means saving $25,000.00!

Conditions may be different in other disciplines, but in the ones I'm familiar with (in the humanities), you would have to be rich, a fool, or both, if you planned on paying for grad school.

If you PM me, I can recommend a few programs in North America that are willing to fund interdisciplinary MAs. Speaking of which, look to the big-name, unionized Canadian schools for good funding: UToronto, York, Western, UBC, etc.

[jasper.milvain]

Speaking of which, look to the big-name, unionized Canadian schools for good funding: UToronto, York, Western, UBC, etc.

Heh... I was going to say this, but didn't want to sound like a broken record about Canada.

[Minnesotan]

Heh... I was going to say this, but didn't want to sound like a broken record about Canada.

Well, if you can time it right so you don't go to Canada when the union's on strike, you should have decent support. Unfortunately, the union's always on strike, and that means nobody gets paid. And their degrees get held up for a year or so.

On second thought, don't go to Canada. It's messed up there. =)

[jasper.milvain]

Maybe finding out when the next round of bargaining is should become part of checking out schools. Much as I'm sad to be leaving my awesome union at my MA school, I'm secretly thrilled to be avoiding a likely strike by moving to a non-unionized PhD institution. Actually, the non-union school also funds most/all of its MA students, and pays the PhDs at a much higher rate than my union school. Not all unions are helpful (see York), and not all non-unionized places are festering swamps of exploitation. Best to speak to students on the ground, I think.

/Canadian labour hijack.

[Bill H.]

Posted this in the other MAPH forum, too, but I'm really eager to get some feedback, so...

As a potential MAPH person for next Fall (redirected from the Committee on Social Thought), I've got some questions for those of you out there who did the program:

1. How'd you afford it? Are there many TA/RA options? Is it feasible to have an on- or off-campus part-time job?

2. My long-term goal is a PhD -- is MAPH a reasonable venue for this?

3. In general, especially for you English/Philosophy/Theory folks, what are your pro and con thoughts on the program?

Thanks!

Bill

[ThePoorHangedFool]

It was an unnecessary paragraph to write. Everyone knows how hard it is to get a job in this field, and such smugness is uncalled for. But it was moreover elitist and even senseless. If I were to write back, I would say:

'"No reasonable hope for a future?" Is my life only eligible for a future if I get my PhD at a top university, go on to teach at a top university within "two years?" Is two years the time frame I have to prove that I'm worthy of a future? And is the only future that means something working at an ivy-league university? What about teaching in a private school, or even a public one, or even overseas--what if one of these AND getting my PhD from a good school completes my dream?--even if these aren't my dreams but end up being my only options, and I take them, does my future just not count? Does my life just simply end if I have to settle for a lucrative position in--GASP--PUBLISHING when I come out of the PhD, until I can find a job, or even until I never do? I don't understand! What are you telling me?!--that one of the fates will declare me "futureless," and therein zap me from the planet if I get my PhD at a school ranked 30-, 40-, or 50- something and end up teaching at State U or even a small 4-year college in east bumblefuck? Pick your words with more care, woman!"

But I really wouldn't write anything at all. Obviously the current academic climate doesn't call for diplomacy if this woman throws words around like that and doesn't even stop to think that YOU might one day kick ass, at which time you might conveniently remember her extremely elitist phrasing and decide to attribute it to her in print somehow.

Actually, looking at job placement statistics for whatever programs to which you're applying can be immensely eye-opening. One I recently found typically awards between two and four Ph.D.s every year; up until 2008, its graduates were getting jobs at some of the top-five universities for the year immediately following. Since then, though, there have been years where one of two or even TWO of two graduates won't get jobs anywhere. Period. The program to which I'm referring, by the way, is one generally listed among the top twelve for English in each round of rankings.

[bdon19]

I'm with a few people on this thread who know what they know about the MAPH program only through hearsay. However, here's the advice I got from a trusted professor: Don't even bother applying to Chicago. For me that doesn't matter, because it's not particularly strong in any of my major areas of interest, so I wasn't planning on applying anyway, though Chicago's my hometown.

A friend of mine got accepted to the MAPH program this past year, after getting rejected from 10+ schools. She seriously considered doing it, but wasn't about to get herself in serious debt if there was no guarantee she could even get into a PhD program later. She was also warned by a different prof in our English dept. who got his PhD at Chicago and whose wife did the MAPH, as it's been relatively useless for her. My friend ultimately declined the MAPH offer, even as her heart broke for giving up her chance at academia. A few weeks later she got a call that someone turned down their spot at another school, and she got in with an awesome fellowship!

I now have hope for my own future.

[ThePoorHangedFool]

All I've heard directly about the MAPH program is that it's "worth applying to, at least, even if you don't plan on accepting a potential offer to attend." Such words came from the professor I had for a few classes, who also served as my thesis advisor and who is now simply a good friend of mine whose input I typically value. He attended UChicago for English as an undergrad, and got his Ph.D. in English from Duke within the past five years (in other words, he's pretty familiar with what we're all going through and/or undertaking). When I asked about the MAPH option, he said that I shouldn't immediately disregard it solely because it's not a degree "IN ENGLISH," and that while it's obviously friendlier to applicants with less restricted financial capabilities, for those people (that do, in fact, exist) it's actually a great option.

That being said, I personally am planning to apply, if only because there's not a very good reason for me not to do so; if I were actually accepted, which itself is unlikely, I'd only commit AFTER finding housing and a job in Chicago first. I'm going into the application process with no hopes whatsoever (mainly so that the splintered shards of my heart don't hit the ground as loudly when it breaks later in the spring); if I even get accepted to one program on the one condition that I donate my family in order to be allowed a spot, I'll probably buy myself a cake or something. To catch the tumbling heart-shards, at the very least.

[runonsentence]

All I've heard directly about the MAPH program is that it's "worth applying to, at least, even if you don't plan on accepting a potential offer to attend."

But this logic doesn't hold: why apply to any school if one wouldn't want to accept an offer, even if it was extended? That's, at best, a wasted application fee.

[ThePoorHangedFool]

I realize I didn't phrase what I was trying to convey very well in my earlier post. You're obviously right about the pointlessness of wasting money on applications that are premeditatedly submitted with no intentions to accept the potential offers at hand. That is not exactly what my reference, whose B.A. from U Chicago and multitude of friends that got their M.A.s through MAPH (not all of which were fellow undergraduates from U Chicago) seem like decent credentials, suggested. Not exactly at all, really.

He said most of the people he knew that had gone through MAPH loved everything about it, and again, there is no implication that some or any of these people to which he's referring also got their B.A.s at Chicago. I quoted what he said to me poorly in my last post; he didn't mean that everybody should apply to random programs they have no desire to attend just for the hell of it. At all. That is stupid.

He meant that it's a good program to apply for even if it might be the last place you'd want to go ON your list, meaning it did still make it onto your list, so can't be entirely terrible in this theoretical applicant's eyes. What if you apply to 15 programs and only get into MAPH? I will not waste time going over my last post's content about finances again. However, if you are one of the applicants that doesn't already have loans piled up from your undergraduate studies and furthermore can afford MAPH, and you ONLY get into MAPH, you could do a lot worse than just go and get your Master's. You clearly weren't ready for a Ph.D. program anyway, or possibly, depending on which programs to which you applied, you weren't ready for a more long-term Master's program either.

He basically was saying to suck it up and get your Master's in a year and don't complain. The next time you apply, presumably for Ph.D. programs, you'll at least HAVE your M.A., putting you a step above where you were the last time and thus above many other applicants that could very well be equally as qualified as you, but don't have that extra degree.

I'm expecting at least one person to find some part of this offensive in some way, so go ahead... But I see no real argument against what I just explained, as long as you take into account the variables I laid out (particularly regarding financial capabilities...YES, MAPH IS EXPENSIVE. SO ARE LOTS OF OTHER PROGRAMS THAT STRICTLY LIMIT ALL FUNDING TO Ph.D. CANDIDATES AND MAKE M.A. STUDENTS PAY THE FULL WAY).

Sorry for shouting. I didn't realize till most of that was typed out that I'd left capslock on after "expensive."