Funding for Canadian students going to American schools?

[stresshair]

I am planning on applying to some American and Canadian graduate molecular/cell/developmental programs this fall. I am a canadian student, and I have been having difficulties finding funding that I could apply for and (hopefully) get for studying in america. I have found a few sources. The Fulbright awards which seem fairly unattainable. CIHR DFSA, which can only be received if you study in a health related field. Some of the research/labs I am interested in could qualify, but in other areas the link is tenuous. The only attainable funding I have found are the NSERC PGS M/D, though I would have to initially get the Masters funding due to their stipulations for holding the funding at a foreign university. Could anyone here point me in any directions for funding opportunities? Any help is greatly appreciated. 

[sdt13]

 

If you apply for a phd, most programs are funded regardless of where you're from. I'm not sure about the sciences, but in most social science phd programs they will not accept you if they cannot fund you for at least 5 years.

I actually did the opposite, whereby I am from the U.S. and will be attending a Canadian university for my graduate work. I dont know if this is the standard in Canada, but at my new university it is strongly encouraged (almost mandatory) that I apply for external funding (leaving me in the situation you are inquiring about)...in the U.S., it is encouraged, but not necessarily required (there are much fewer options in the U.S anyway)...it's more to get you out of TAing and/or look nice on your CV.

[TakeruK]

Like sdt13 said, almost all PhD programs will fund you if they accept you! Especially in the sciences. Sometimes this funding is quite low and you would want to supplement it. However, the way funding works is that if you have external sources, then often the internal sources are adjusted so that your take-home pay would be about the same. The rare exception is when your external funding is something that will completely cover your stipend and tuition! But this is definitely not the case with NSERC. You can only take the PGS level award to foreign schools and the PGS-D is 21,000 CAD per year, which is not enough to cover most of the cost!

 

However, it's still better to apply for it and try to secure your own funding. It helps you get more independence and having your own money might mean less cost to your supervisor, which means more money for them to spend on trips and/or equipment for you. It's also a good prestige thing. 

 

I am not certain, but I think you can apply for the PGS-D directly if you are going into a direct-entry PhD program (i.e. almost any program in the US) so that you don't have to have 1 year of Masters funding initially. However, this is in your best interest, because you have a lifetime limit of 4 years of graduate level NSERC funding, and the best way to use this limit is to have 1 year of PGS-M funding followed by 3 years of PGS-D funding. You cannot hold the PGS-D for more than 3 years. You can still apply for the PGS-D in your first year of your PhD program (for funding for years 2, 3, and 4). Unless you are talking about the "must complete at least 1 degree in Canada before taking an NSERC award abroad" requirement and you did not do your BSc in Canada.

 

NSERC and Fulbright are really the only two major funding sources that would fund all of science. Maybe you can find a program that might fund your field specifically. For example, NASA has one fellowship program for the planetary sciences that I plan to apply to when my PGS-D runs out. I also looked all over when I made the decision to go to a US school and there really isn't anything else! 

[stresshair]

Thanks a lot for the info!

 

So not getting external funding isn't a deal breaker when applying? That puts my mind at ease a bit. 

 

To TakeruK:

 

I am currently doing an undergrad in Canada, I got that info NSERC website, specifically this line for the PGS-D requirements: 

"if you were admitted into a doctoral program directly from your bachelor’s program (you were never registered in a master’s program), you must have completed, as of December 31 of the year of application, between four and 36 months of studies (full-time equivalent) in the doctoral program for which you are requesting funding"

 

But if the way to go is a PGS-M first I will definitely do that! Since it seems like you have some knowledge about NSERC funding do you mind if I ask you a few questions? Specifically:

 

• The info for how to apply to the funding is a little confusing to me, as a current Canadian undergrad would I apply through the university I am currently enrolled at? If so, I am assuming there should be someone to contact at my university for help with the process...
• Were the programs you applied to rotation based? All of the programs I am applying to our, so I won't have a potential supervisor until after I get accepted. This makes the research proposal section of the application slightly intimidating, any tips on writing it?
• Did you have NSERC entering your first year, or did you get it later on?
• Would it be worth mentioning in the applications that I am applying for it?
• Any tips on applying for NSERC funding in general?

Sorry for all the questions! I haven't talked to anybody from who has gone through the process of applying to American schools as a Canadian, so I might bug you about some other stuff!

[TakeruK]

Hi stresshair,

 

Yes you are right -- you can apply for and get a PGS-D directly. But then you will only get the PGS-D for 3 years. If you apply for the PGS-M first, get that, then apply for and win the PGS-D the following year, then you would have gotten the PGS-M for 1 year and then the PGS-D for 3 years (i.e. more awards/money). 

 

To answer your other questions:

 

1. Yes, you apply through your current school's university. Contact the Graduate School's finance office for help, but at many schools you are kind of left on your own!! There may be some workshops though, or senior students / grad students. 

 

.. I'll answer the rest of questions when I get back from a weekend trip (or maybe someone else will answer it first!)

[stresshair]

Thanks TakeruK, I look forward to your response!

[TakeruK]

Okay, here are my thoughts on the rest of your questions! For context, here is some history of when I applied for NSERC awards. In Fall 2009, as an undergrad in my last year at UBC, I applied for a NSERC CGS-M to use at a Canadian school. Then, two years later, in Fall 2011, as a grad student in my last year of my MSc at Queen's, I applied for a NSERC CGS-D. I ended up going to a US school, so, as required, I declined the CGS-D and accepted the PGS-D instead. 

 

Also, I guess I misread something in an earlier post. To clarify, since you are current undergrad student, you won't be eligible to apply for the PGS-D award until you are in the fall of your first year of your direct-entry PhD program (if you go that route). So, you should apply for the -M award, if I interpreted your link to the NSERC website correctly!
 

• The info for how to apply to the funding is a little confusing to me, as a current Canadian undergrad would I apply through the university I am currently enrolled at? If so, I am assuming there should be someone to contact at my university for help with the process...

 
So, yes, you do apply through your current undergrad university. You generally always apply to the school you are currently registered at, at time of application, no matter where you intend to take up your award. If you are not currently at a Canadian university, then you would apply directly to NSERC. But in the same page you linked, there is a table that details all possible scenarios (a recent graduate at a Canadian university but not a current degree student elsewhere would apply through their previous university). As for resources and help, like I said in my short answer, this really depends on your school and department -- at some places, they really try to help undergrads out, at others, it's basically completely up to the student. Some resources you can check are your grad school financial office or any student organization (e.g. the science undergrad society, or your major's student club). I'll be glad to answer any questions too.
 
Note: You should check with your school about the deadlines. They can vary greatly between programs -- at UBC, it was mid-September, at Queen's, it was some time in October!! I think in the past year (starting with the 2012 applications, the dates/rules changed a little bit). But if the deadline is mid-September, you should start putting together your package now, especially lining up your letter writers.

 

 

• Were the programs you applied to rotation based? All of the programs I am applying to our, so I won't have a potential supervisor until after I get accepted. This makes the research proposal section of the application slightly intimidating, any tips on writing it?

 

 
In both 2009 and 2011, I had no idea where I would end up doing my Masters or PhD since the NSERC deadline was months before I even applied to grad schools. My Masters program ended up not being rotation based, and my current PhD program involves two simultaneous research projects in the first year. So far, I just arbitrarily chose one of my supervisor to be the "on paper" NSERC supervisor.  But that's something you don't really have to worry about until after the school/award decisions are made!
 
As for writing the research proposal for the application, remember that you are not committing yourself to actually carrying out this project if you are funded. It is mostly an example of what kind of work you would do and especially for the -M level award, they mostly want to see that you are able to clearly articulate and plan a project that is both scientifically interesting and doable in the few years that you have. So, my approach was to find a prof that would do research similar to what I would do in grad school (e.g. a prof at a school I would apply to), tell them that I was going to apply for NSERC, remind them that there's no commitment, and ask if they have 30 minutes or so to discuss some of my project ideas. I found that feedback from a prof even in just 30 minutes of talking was immensely helpful in making sure I didn't overlook any glaring flaws and also they are helpful at gauging if the project is too vague, too detailed, too broad, or too narrow. My friends and I also traded writeups with each other to help each other perfect things.
 
Also remember that you are allowed to change your project and supervisor during the award. You would have to submit a new description so that they are aware of the change. In general, as long as you stay within the same NSERC evaluation "Committee" then it's okay. For example, my application was evaluated by "Physics & Astronomy", so as long as I stayed in that description, it should be okay. I have not actually submitted a project change yet though, but I think my eventual PhD project will be different enough from my application that I will do that along with my request for the next installment this fall.

 

 

• Did you have NSERC entering your first year, or did you get it later on?

 

 
In both MSc and PhD programs, I had NSERC funding entering the first year of that program (so I applied in the last year of the previous program in both cases). But as you mentioned in the post above, and also on the NSERC webpage, you are still eligible to apply as late as your second or third year of your PhD program depending on whether it was Masters-to-PhD or direct-entry. (If you apply later, you might only get the 2-year award instead of the 3 year award though).

 

 

• Would it be worth mentioning in the applications that I am applying for it?

Yes, in many applications, they will ask if you have applied for any awards. In my application years, I found out by late November/early December whether or not my application (to the school) was forwarded to NSERC (i.e. made the first cut). So, you would probably have that info by the time you submit most of the applications, so that is something definitely worth mentioning! In Canada, all programs should immediately know what you mean and they will probably look at your application and have a good guess at whether or not you'll be funded based on previous experience. If they think you will be successful, it might really help your chances at admission since you'll be bringing in a considerable amount of outside funding.\
 
For US schools, they might not know what you mean. When I applied, I just quoted the PGS level award amount (21,000 CAD/year for up to 3 years) so that they can gauge the level of the award. If you are talking to someone, you can refer to it as Canada's version of the NSF Graduate Research Fellowship Program, except our NSERC PGS-D won't be covering as much costs since we are taking it outside of Canada. But that's a good reference baseline in terms of the prestige and value of the award.
 

• Any tips on applying for NSERC funding in general?

Sorry for all the questions! I haven't talked to anybody from who has gone through the process of applying to American schools as a Canadian, so I might bug you about some other stuff!

 

The most important thing is to make sure you spend time to put together a quality application package. I would start about now! Some of my letter writers wanted to see my completed application package before they would write the letters, so don't expect to be able to finish it at the last minute. You should probably ask your previous supervisors about getting letters ASAP and then provide them with your info when you have it ready. But give them the heads up soon (unless the deadline for your school is really late!)

 

On the NSERC page, they tell you what's important to them. At the -M level, the breakdown is 50% grades, 30% research potential and 20% community involvement. At the -D level, it's 50% research ability/potential, 30% grades, and 20% community involvement. Other than having a high GPA, the other important things to have is to get all 3 letters from previous research supervisors if possible (especially when applying for the -D level). Previous publications and/or NSERC awards (e.g. USRA or the -M award) is very valuable. Your research statement is important as well, but remember it's non-binding -- the goal is to prove to the committee that you are capable of performing research at the level expected.

 

Finally, keep in mind that your job is to basically convince the committee that Canadians (taxpayers) should invest somewhere between 60,000 to 100,000 on you and get their money's worth. At the undergrad level, scholarships are meant to reward previous success and attract these great students to the school. I think at the graduate level, while that aspect is still present, I think it's more helpful to view the award as an investment for the best young minds. You have to do more than just show that you have been a good student -- you want to them to feel confident that spending this money on you will be worthwhile in the end. Like everything else in academia, I think there are going to be way more candidates that are "deserving" or "qualified" than there are resources (awards) available, so it's important to keep in mind that you will have to do more than just show NSERC that you meet their criteria for awards. That said, being overly competitive can be a big problem in academia, so while you are directly competing with your classmates (and maybe friends too), I think the honourable thing to do is to help your friends/peers succeed with you instead of actively or inactively trying to get yours to be better than the others. That was my philosophy anyways -- a lot of us applied together and we all worked/proof-read/gave tips to make sure each of us submitted the best application possible and let the University/NSERC decide what happened next.

 

Hope that was helpful -- and I'll be glad to answer any other questions about NSERC applications or applying to US schools from Canada!
 

Edited August 12, 2013 by TakeruK

[stresshair]

Thank you so much TakeruK for all this info! 

 

Your answers have been very helpful, I will definitely message you if I have any questions about NSERC and the grad app in general.