Program suggestions? Brit lit, "theory," rhetoric, and pedagogy

[becoming-yolo]

Hello comrades — I've been lurking here a while but this is my first post. I'm a senior undergrad, graduating in May with a bachelor's in English literature and minor in philosophy (maybe French too if I can squeeze the credits in in the spring semester). I am planning on applying to literature graduate programs this fall/winter with the ultimate goal of teaching at the college level (I am aware of the state of the job market). I have a writing sample that I've been tweaking for a while and am pretty happy with, I have a fairly substantial outline for a SOP, I have three recommendation writers lined up — the main problem I'm running into is finding the right programs for me.

 

If we are going by time period and geography, I am mostly interested in 18th and 19th century British literature and, particularly (at this point at least) in the rise of the novel, but from a critical perspective. I am also very interested in "theory" — particularly of Nietzsche-Heidegger-Derrida (Deleuze w/o Guattari?) lineage but also psychoanalysis/Lacan. I am also very much interested in rhetoric — I think I would like a program that allows some sort of rhetoric...minor? — I don't think I want a Rhet & Comp PhD, I am too invested in literary study to give that up, but I would like it to be a large part of what I study as I want rhetoric to be a large component of what I end up *teaching*. Which brings me to the last thing I want — last but not least, maybe even the most significant — which is a program with a really strong pedagological emphasis, particularly, again, a critical pedagogy. I want a program that isn't going to just help me become a scholar, but to become a great teacher too. And this is important to me because the one thing that I feel I've missed out on in my undergrad is any kind of teaching experience.

 

So far I've been searching in a random, completely unmethodical way: basically just reading posts on this board, other message boards, ranking lists, etc., and whenever I see a program mentioned that I haven't looked at yet... look it up and read the website. (Maybe there is a methodology to this but it's not very efficient...) I've spoken with my professors, of course, but they can only really speak of their own programs.  So, from this sloppy methodology I've come up with a few programs that look interesting: Illinois Urbana-Champaign, SUNY Buffalo, CUNY Graduate Center, UC Irvine, UC Riverside, Duke, and University of Chicago.

 

I guess my question for you people in the know is, then, do those programs look like they line up with my interests? And especially, what other programs would you suggest?

 

I'm also worried about my chances of getting into a "big" school (like Duke maybe? Tbh I'm not even entirely sure what constitutes a 'big' school)... I have a 4.0 major GPA, 3.8 overall, I've presented at a few undergraduate conferences (and won a significant award at one); but I come from a pretty small, 'unknown' state school, have no teaching experience, no 'work experience' (I've worked the same minimum wage cashier job since high school), and no publications except in my school's own small literary journal (we don't accept submissions from other schools).

 

Gonna wrap this up because it feels wayyyy too long for a simple little message board post. Thanks for reading and your help.

 

TL;DR see the post title

[danieleWrites]

First, talk with your adviser and other profs in the department (particularly the newer hires) about how jobs are looking and what skill set(s) might make you the most marketable. For example, a person who does primarily theory may have more trouble than a person who is Brit Lit or an Americanist simply because of the number of theory classes taught compared to literature classes. Comparative Lit job prospects are sinking fast. You can't reliably predict the job market 7 or 8 years down the road, but you can get a feel for what's totally not hot for search committees. From those choices, find a program that will fit your interests. Read PMLA and other publications to find researchers you like, and then look at their colleges for graduate programs to see if you like and if you fit. Take the GRE and write your SOPs. If you wanna start next fall, you'll need to apply this fall.

[egwynn]

I'd look at Cornell for theory, Rochester for rhet/comp.  I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, but that might change.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

I don't think you're expected to have any teaching experience (or much relevant work experience, for that matter) coming straight from your undergraduate degree. So, I wouldn't worry to much about that. The fact that you've attended conferences and won an award at one, shows that you are interested in participating in academia beyond the classroom (which says a lot, at least in my opinion). I would just focus on really making your writing sample and SOP strong (most importantly make sure that you demonstrate how you "fit" with the program you're applying to in your SOP). 

 

I'm sorry that I can't actually help with listing specific schools that might work for your interests, but I would emphasize what Lons said above--look back at the favorite articles/books you've read and see where the authors are teaching, then go from there. Obviously, if you want to get a job in the future you'll have to pay attention to rankings. Personally, I went through the top 50 on the US News rankings, cut out the schools that required the Lit. Subject GRE test, and then narrowed it down by fit from there....

 

I don't know much about the intersections of your interests (rhetoric and 18th/19th century/theory), but it really does sound to me like you'd fit better in a Rhet & Comp department. Especially given that you eventually want to teach composition, it makes sense that you would go that route. In my (limited) experience, you get teaching experience in other departments, but literature departments tend to be more focused on literature and not pedagogy. Again, that's just my experience...I'm sure there are mixed programs out there.

 

Good luck! 

[becoming-yolo]

Thanks Lon, I hadn't checked out either of those and they both look appealing!

 

And re: BunnyWantsaPhD that is a relief — I just get nervous reading some of the accomplishments of other people who are applying (like years of prior teaching experience), or the bios of current students at some of the programs I'm interested in, and I get this rush of holy-crap-I-am-not-qualified-for-this, even though rationally I know that I have some pretty good accomplishments myself. But it's good to have someone else say I shouldn't worry about it. And I will start looking more at Rhet/Comp departments: to be honest, I've been on-and-off looking at grad programs for the past couple years and it's only in the past month that I've even started considering Rhet/Comp; but the more I look into it, I agree, it does seem like it fits what I want to do. I think when I get back to school in a couple weeks I'm going to talk with my adviser and see what her thoughts on that direction are.

 

Thanks for your help folks! Any more program suggestions are appreciated!

Edited August 21, 2013 by becoming-yolo

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

No problem; glad you found it helpful. 

 

It definitely is hard not to compare yourselves to others. Those with years of teaching experience have at least some graduate work done/already completed an MA. There's no way you can have that without being beyond an undergraduate. It's funny though, even those with years of teaching experience feel inadequate. You hear time and again that no one really cares about your teaching experiences; it's all about your research interests. So those with teaching experience, but little-to-no publishing/conference experiences feel inadequate. I'm not sure anyone goes into this experience feeling awesome. The best you can do is know yourself--what you want, why you want to do it, and what schools will help you accomplish that. If you want to teach composition, my advice is to get a degree in composition. It's not like you can't do literature-y (yes, that's a word ; ) ) things with it. At most places you'll be taking literature classes as well anyway (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong). 

 

It actually sounds like you would really benefit from going the MA route first--get some teaching experience to see if teaching composition is really what you want to do and then you'll also figure your interests out more by taking classes etc. 

Edited August 21, 2013 by BunnyWantsaPhD

[egwynn]

I don't know much about the intersections of your interests (rhetoric and 18th/19th century/theory), but it really does sound to me like you'd fit better in a Rhet & Comp department. Especially given that you eventually want to teach composition, it makes sense that you would go that route. In my (limited) experience, you get teaching experience in other departments, but literature departments tend to be more focused on literature and not pedagogy. Again, that's just my experience...I'm sure there are mixed programs out there.

 

It's funny though, even those with years of teaching experience feel inadequate. You hear time and again that no one really cares about your teaching experiences; it's all about your research interests. So those with teaching experience, but little-to-no publishing/conference experiences feel inadequate. I'm not sure anyone goes into this experience feeling awesome. The best you can do is know yourself--what you want, why you want to do it, and what schools will help you accomplish that. If you want to teach composition, my advice is to get a degree in composition. It's not like you can't do literature-y (yes, that's a word ; ) ) things with it. At most places you'll be taking literature classes as well anyway (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong). 

 

It actually sounds like you would really benefit from going the MA route first--get some teaching experience to see if teaching composition is really what you want to do and then you'll also figure your interests out more by taking classes etc. 

 

I'm going to both agree and disagree with Bunny (and both my agreement and my disagreement will be conditional... how helpful).

 

I don't think that you should necessarily head straight for the rhet/comp route.  Now, I say this assuming that you're interested in researching literature/theory as much as you're interested in researching rhetoric and pedagogy.  So, if that's not true, then go rhet/comp.  But both programs I mentioned work with their lit PhD students to very strongly establish a base for teaching rhetoric, and pedagogy is necessarily built into that.  This is especially true of Rochester, whose offer I turned down essentially because I did not want to concentrate so heavily on rhetoric and composition.  I'm sure there are many, many others that have strong inclinations towards rhetoric.  But from what I've seen at my MA, at the programs I visited before choosing for my PhD, in the one I chose, in stories from friends in other programs and prospective PhD students on my visits, and on most of the boards here is that you're going to be teaching rhetoric and composition no matter what as long as you're teaching during your graduate work.  My impression is that this is because most profs in English departments don't want to teach freshman writing or that terrible survey where they start at Beowulf and plow through to Faulkner while also teaching the "hamburger essay."  So you'll teach it (or you'll TA it).  The question is more how formalized it is and how specialized you become in it.

 

I also want to say that I feel very strongly that my teaching (and my change in specialty) is what made my last application season successful.  I'm sure no one looked at my CV and said, "Oh, gosh, Lons TAed English 101, we must have her!!!!", but teaching made an enormous difference on how I write, how I think, how I explicate my interests and my intentions and thoughts, and what my goals are.  This made a huge difference when I was writing my SOP, talking to people in departments, communicating with my LOR-writers, and so on.  That said, I can also name a fistful of friends who are in top PhD programs and got there without ever having so much as supervised Sunday school classes, so it is not necessary, but I really think it was a game-changer for me.

 

Anyways, lastly, I'm totally going to agree with Bunny on the MA thing.  If you're on the fence, the MA will give you time to pick a side and/or decide if it's the right fence to be on to begin with.  I entered my MA as a prospective Shakespearean who refused to write about women and still couldn't really abandon the burning desire to be a Romantic and I ended up fixated on women in the 18th century and in reality television.  So... MAs help you decide.

[ProfLorax]

Hello! You've already received some great advice, and I'm going to offer up some more feedback.

 

I have to echo the MA first thing. And I'll tell you why: I was you. I applied straight out of undergrad, which isn't inherently a problem. No, the problem was that I had disparate interests. My SoP read like a list of books I liked on a FB wall (feminist theory! slave narratives! modern interpretations of arthurian legend! critical pedagogy!). I was a solid academic writer and one of the top students in my class, but I was rejected from all PhD programs. I'm not surprised now. Because while it's okay to have a variety of interests, it's crucial to understand how and why they overlap. You may not have to choose between lit or rhet/comp, but you'll have to find a thread that connects the two specific lit and rhetoric topics you want to study. It wouldn't have been enough for me to add a transition sentence. I had to know the history, language, and theory behind the connections, and illustrate how they overlap in an interesting way. I personally wasn't able to do that out of my BA program. So, it doesn't hurt to add a few MA programs to your list. 

 

Like Lons, I don't think that rhet/comp is necessarily the best place for you. I applied to rhet/comp programs last year; I was accepted to a handful, and visited a few. Most of the programs I visited have a pretty firm boundary between lit and rhet/comp. Now, that isn't to say that lit people can't take classes in rhet/comp and vice versa, but the lit and rhet/comp communities were separate. I essentially noticed this at Arizona, Miami, and Illinois. Rhet/comp folks liked that isolation from literary study; so often, in programs without a defined division between lit and rhet/comp, lit takes over. Rhet/comp programs understandably want their autonomy, hence the distinction. 

 

However, there are a few examples where that isn't the case. One of the reasons I chose Maryland over more established rhet/comp programs was because I noticed while the cohorts are certainly separate, there's a lot of overlap. Unlike other programs, I noticed that lit students and rhet/comp students knew each other at the orientation. Also, as a PhD student (I can't speak to the MA/PhD program), I have to take nine classes-- and I can choose any classes I'd like, as long as they support my interests. This freedom has allowed for some students to straddle the lit/rhet/comp line, including one 5th year student of 18th century literature AND rhetoric, who had a TT job lined up for this Fall. Berkeley's Rhetoric program may also be of interest. An interdisciplinary program at heart, theory seems to be at the center of everything the faculty does. Scholars are able to pursue a variety of interests that stem from whatever theoretical framework they are working with. 

 

Good luck! And hope that was helpful.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

To respond to Lons' comment: I agree--you'll definitely have PLENTY of chances to teach composition. What I meant was, that in a literature program, you're less likely to learn about how to teach. Of course, some places will require you to take a "teaching practicum" course, but those usually aren't that great and won't go beyond one semester. So, my suggestion to go the rhet/comp route was because you said you thought your main goal was to eventually teach it and you wanted to learn more about it. As Proflorax has pointed out, you may have the chance to have your interests overlap depending on where you go. What I've noticed though, is that Rhet/Comp programs tend to have department workshops that focus on how to make your teaching better; whereas literature focused departments will have workshops with special speakers on various time periods/theories of literature (with the intention that this information will influence your thinking/teaching if you work in that field). It's just a different way of functioning as a department. Again, this is my limited experience, but it seems to hold true. 

 

Anyways, it sounds like we're really all agreeing with each other here anyway; I just wanted to make a clarification. I'd definitely apply for a mix of MA and PhD programs.