Third LoR -- for IEOR PhD

[choi_ms]

Hello everyone!

 

I am a fresh graduate from UC-Berkeley (2010-2013), majored in Industrial Engineering (Honors, Top 10%), and I am applying to PhD programs again in the same program, industrial engineering.

 

Here is my current situation -- 

 

1) 20+ year-professor (since 1988) in Stochastic Processes: I did well (though not too excellent) in her class (A-, but the class was a bit difficult...), and I served as an undergraduate TA for her class the following semester. She knows I worked extremely hard as a TA, in terms of quick/prompt/precise reply with student emails, extra office hours to accommodate the students (even past midnight when necessary), etc, and I've known her both personally and in classroom for two years. This will be a good "I recommend him as a TA" recommendation.

 

2) Summer/Fall internship supervisor: Holds PhD in physics, and we worked together on developing an algorithm for pedometer and accelerometer, employing various statistics, signal processing, and efficient-algorithm techniques on iPython (work I did is super-super technical, which is good). 

 

3) This one -- not exactly sure, I think ideally it'll be a professor ...

 

Option 1: Research supervisor -- however, it is not a formal research. I just did my own independent research about a probability example in the textbook, and I merely met him for about 30 minutes every Friday for research meetings. I did produce a paper and poster at the end, but it's not extremely outstanding or stellar (not posted on any major journals, it's just on his website). I can do another 15 hr/week independent research project on transportation this semester (I think this one will be good if I spend time on it (since I've always wanted to do a research on transportation), but I already have 40 hr/week full-time consulting job on campus... and I need time to prep for grad apps too), and ask him for a recommendation.

 

Option 2-1: Simulation Professor -- did well in the class (A, and many people found the class actually tough), and I think my simulation project was outstanding. And I know the professor quite well (through student professional organizations, etc).

 

Option 2-2: Robotics Professor -- did get an A, he knows me well, but he knows me as someone who wasn't the most stellar student but who worked super-hard. This option will be a plan B if option 2-1 does not work out.

 

Option 3: A professor that I scored within top 5 out of 100 in his class. I am super-familiar with his assistant/graduate instructor, so I can ask that graduate instructor to refer to that professor, and that professor can write me a letter of recommendation for me.

 

Thank you so, so, so much!

Edited September 6, 2013 by choi_ms

[hikaru1221]

Hi,

 

Just a few comments:

 

Option 1: Do not underestimate "informal" research. I personally believe, except that one publishes a paper as the 1st author in a well-known journal/ conference, there are little proofs to show that he has true experiences in conducting formal researches. Even having a paper as 2nd author may possibly mean he mainly did grunt-like works.

 

My academic adviser actually said, for any student doing bachelor thesis under him, it took him only one or two weeks to know the student's capability in research and determine whether it would be a strong or mediocre letter for this student. Surprised?

 

I also had roughly the same thought before approaching a professor whose graduate class I took and worked on a paper review in (that is, I wrote a review on a paper, how good and bad it was, not producing anything new other than my own opinions). I asked him for a positive recommendation letter, and he replied he would write me a very strong one. By the way, I have never talked to this professor even in the class before.

 

What I would suggest is, find out what this professor of yours has in mind about you. I'm unsure of how people in the US perceive this matter, but if you can frankly discuss your choices with this professor and see how he reacts, it may be good. That carries certain risks, but still, I have heard of professors helping students to find a better letter writer after rejecting their request, so I suppose that's not impossible.

 

Option 2: The same as above, as I would treat a class project the same as "informal" research - that they will show your skills/ work attitude, but not formal proofs of independent research. You never know what will come until you find out what he thinks.

 

Option 3 seems odd to me, personally.

 

Actually I have a feeling that you feel more confident with the simulation project than the one on probability. I suppose, if your skills and aptitude in either one are already revealed in the other letters, then what kind of values can it add?

[choi_ms]

hikaru1221: Thank you so much for your input! This is extremely helpful -- I am going to ask the simulation professor for the recommendation letter first, and then if he says no, I will probably do transportation research (which I am more confident on doing good job than the probability research, since my field is in operations research) and try to receive a rec letter from that research supervisor. 

Edited September 7, 2013 by choi_ms

[hikaru1221]

hikaru1221: Thank you so much for your input! This is extremely helpful -- I am going to ask the simulation professor for the recommendation letter first, and then if he says no, I will probably do transportation research (which I am more confident on doing good job than the probability research, since my field is in operations research) and try to receive a rec letter from that research supervisor. 

 

How come it sounds to me like you haven't done transportation research before? It might be your bigger problem in that case I suppose.

[choi_ms]

I think trying to graduate within 3 years (20 units/semester, along with a Chinese minor...) didn't allow me enough time to allocate in research, which I regret... also, I've done/been doing most of the short-term consulting/research projects with companies and offices on campus (e.g. class scheduling optimization with the registrar's office), with a very little involvement of professors -- so it tells me that I can do independent research, but I didn't find out until now that there are not that many professors around me who can verify that... 

 

Academic fields that I have done short-term research projects vary quite a bit -- e.g. manufacturing, workforce optimization, inventory, database... transportation just happens to be a field that I didn't have a chance to conduct research in. So I understand having such a diverse experience can be both a good and a bad thing (bad because I don't have a specific focus/strength that I can show on my application)

Edited September 7, 2013 by choi_ms

[hikaru1221]

I guess yours is an odd case. It can be hard to convince schools that you will be of "use" to them when you did A and B and now you want to do C. Perhaps consulting a professor (possibly one of the first two letter writers of yours) on this, before deciding on the third writer? At the end of the day, LoR's are just pieces of evidence that you choose to submit as parts of the application.

 

I'm not sure though, but stating that you want to do the superset of A and B, which includes C, might sound somewhat more reasonable.

 

P.S.: I think having a diverse background is fine, so long as it shows your potential to do competent research. Some schools, like Princeton, simply give away the first year for students to find their research topics. I have also seen people whose research topics at the MSc stage are different from the rest of their PhD studies. My speculation is, schools are fine with admitting students who don't have a focus during undergraduate, since they know students may change their mind anyway. But an applicant with a wrong excuse is possibly another story.

Edited September 7, 2013 by hikaru1221

[choi_ms]

Haha as you just mentioned, my situation is indeed not quite typical for someone who is a prospective researcher. I feel semi-confident in the fact that I am intending to pursue in a field called "Humanitarian Logistics", which is an interdisciplinary field that deals with developing optimal operations-research-type methodologies to deliver supplies and aids to people who are affected by human right issues and disasters, so I am hoping that my diverse background will strengthen my application!

 

Thank you so much for the tips If you don't mind, would you mind if I asked what your background is? (i.e. PhD/MS student/graduate, prospective applicant, academic field, etc.)

Edited September 7, 2013 by choi_ms

[hikaru1221]

I think I misunderstood the point   In that case, I don't think there is a problem. I know people doing all kinds of researches that don't just belong to one subfield during undegrad, whereas their intended research field (the one written in the SoP) is a focused one - and some are at the best schools. As long as, 1) there is a good reason to pursue your intended field, 2) there are professors willing to verify your capability, then done. Stick with your plan then.

 

I noticed something from this site: http://graddecision.org/Application_SOP.html

 

You might be surprised to hear that many SOPs are not carefully read before either an accept or reject decision is made.   Students tend to spend a lot of time on the SOP, because it’s one aspect of your application that you have complete control over.  Given this, you might as well put in the effort to write the best possible SOP.  In case the admissions committee isn’t able to get a good sense of your relevant background from your letters of recommendation and resume/publications list, they’ll refer to your SOP to get this overview, and your SOP will be your best opportunity to present an overall picture of your relevant background.

 

It seems that they don't care so much about how you picture yourself in grad school, since many people would change their mind anyway. That, I assume those schools are the top ones (where, e.g., contacting the POI before submitting the application is discouraged). Some may tie their funding with available projects and contacting the POI is generally accepted, so I imagine these schools can be slightly different.

 

Still when they refer to your SOP, if they happen to see any anomaly, I suppose that's definitely not a good sign and can be a turn-down in the decision. All are speculations though.

 

I'm also applying this coming term - that's why I didn't dare to make firm claims (anyway, everyone gets to be admitted once, and small-sized sampling doesn't help). My field is in Electrical Engineering, broadly speaking 

Edited September 8, 2013 by hikaru1221

[choi_ms]

Wow, thank you so much for your help! And I really wish the best of luck to you as well -- well I find it quite obvious that you are probably far more knowledgeable than I am in knowing juicy tips in grad school applications...  I also hope you enjoy the application process! -- we only get this fantastic chance once in our lives (for most people anyways) to apply for graduate school, right? ;P

Edited September 8, 2013 by choi_ms

[hikaru1221]

Sure, you too