Should I apply to grad school now/should I retake the GRE

[TimB]

Hello,

 

Here is my situation, it's a bit complex, hence asking advice!

 

I want to go to school for international development/international relations

 

My soon to be wife and I also really want to do the Peace Corps together. I am wondering whether I would be better served going to grad school now, and thus making myself a better candidate for the Peace Corps, or going to the Peace Corps first, getting a language under my belt, and then applying for grad school (I only speak English, I know, typically American).

 

Question 1: Is not speaking a second language a killer for many of these programs? I would imagine that it is pretty important to do a lot of the work in the field.

 

I'm leaning towards waiting for to apply for school. I'd like to go to a top program, one that will afford me the chance to get right into a job after graduation. My GRE score is decent, I got a 169 on the verbal, and a 154 on the quant, I haven't gotten my writing score back yet. Part of what I'm wondering is if I should retake the GRE. On the one hand, I'm afraid I won't score in the 99th percentile again in verbal, on the other, I didn't study in the slightest (starting a new job/planning a wedding) and I think I could do much better on the math if I studied and got a tutor. I went to an inner city school where I basically slacked off and stopped taking math around 10th grade, and then avoided it all through college, so I'm sure I would benefit from a real math education anyhow. 

 

Question 2: is that quant score ok? Will it really hamstring me? 

 

I'm pretty confident in my GPA and resume aside from that.

 

Finally, what would be a good IR/ID program for someone who likes the management/leadership/communications aspect of the work, and likes hands on work (I want to work for an NGO possibly) more than the policy analysis? Of course I don't mind working in policy, it's just not the only thing I want to do. 

 

Thanks so much!

Edited October 16, 2013 by TimB

[hedong123]

It's not your GRE score that's an issue.  Do you have any international experience?  If not, I suggest joining the Peace Corps first.  On the other hand, if you have loads if international work experience/exposure, I suggest applying to grad school now.

Edited October 17, 2013 by hedong123

[chiquitito]

TimB, 

 

Peace Corps isn't a particularly competitive program. It is, however, time consuming. Think about a minimum of 6-9 months from application to arriving overseas (for many it is closer to 12), and then a 27 month commitment. I doubt having a graduate degree would make that process go faster, and I'm not sure it would make an impact on the type of assignment you would get (if you are applying with your wife, PC will have to find two jobs in the same location you are both qualified for). Also, I believe Peace Corps requires couples to be married for at least a year before they begin their service together.

 

If you feel like you can wait three years before starting grad school, I would recommend Peace Corps because having that international experience will make you that much more desirable as a candidate for graduate programs. However, as hedong123 said, if you already have lived and worked overseas, you could probably apply to grad school now. 

 

As for your quant score, I think you're falling just short of the middle 50% for the better programs, so I don't think you need to take it again. However, math is important (especially if you want to study international development) and taking a night course or two in calculus or economics would be great (and maybe necessary) for your application. 

[Howie]

Only do Peace Corps if it's something you really want to do, not because it MAY slightly increase your application status at a grad school. A 2+ year commitment isn't worth that.

[chocolatecheesecake]

Definitely agree with others. Peace Corps is a great experience but really time consuming. Ditto on the being married for a year before you serve together as a couple; I had a friend who had to tie the knot pretty quickly so that she and her husband would be able to go to Honduras together.

 

If this were my plan and I hadn't had any foreign language or int'l experience, I would definitely do Peace Corps first and then graduate school; it'll be great experience on your application, and you'll get a much better idea of what you want to do in school after your Peace Corps experience too. Best of luck!

[TimB]

Thanks for the responses! I got my writing back: I got a 5, or 93rd percentile. I'm a little disappointed because writing has always been my strong suit. I knew while I was writing my response that it was coming out subpar, so I think I might retake the GRE.

 

I'm going to go with applying to the Peace Corps first. I really want to do the Peace Corps because"

 

A. I can do it with my wife, and we will likely, although not assuredly, work together. We worked together for FEMA previously so I know that we work well together. Our dream job would be to work in the same NGO together.

 

B. I like hands on work. I worked as a climbing and backpacking guide previously, and my main experience abroad previously was 3 months in Chile climbing in the Andes. The kind of work and level of engagement Peace Corps has is like my dream job, but alas, it's pretty hard to support a family or retire on the pay for work like that.

 

[Calatoara]

Hi Tim,

 

As someone who just finished with Peace Corps and is now looking to apply for Fall 2014 admission, I thought I might add another perspective.

 

1. There's actually an option where you can do BOTH Peace Corps and earn your Master's Degree. It takes about 3.5 years. The program is called Master's International. Each program is different, but generally you go to grad school full time for one year, then do your 27 months of Peace Corps service, and then return to school to finish off a last semester. You'll meet a foreign language requirement by the end since you'll learn one during your PC service. I did not personally do this because I was unsure of what I wanted to study. What I've heard from alums of the MI program is to make absolutely sure that you are getting the Masters degree you REALLY want, and not just picking a program because you wanted to do both things and couldn't choose. For example, I know that the LBJ school of UT-Austin has an MI option. You can look up more of them here: http://www.peacecorps.gov/learn/whyvol/eduben/mastersint/ .  Carnegie, Duke, IU-Bloomington (SPEA) are just a few others I can think of off the top of my head.

 

2. Feel free to contact a Peace Corps recruiter at your regional recruitment office. You can look up that information on the Peace Corps website. They're more than happy to talk to you about what you're looking to get out of the program, what your long-term goals are, and whether or not the MI program or service in general would be the right fit for you. Also, while some say the Peace Corps isn't competitive, it is true that they get far more applications than they have openings on a yearly basis, and it does take longer to place a married couple. Especially if you're going for anything that isn't health or education (like community economic development), there are very limited openings because these are not what most countries request. Additionally, each country can set requirements for volunteers in the different sectors (i.e. China will only accept Masters degree holders or candidates for their education volunteers ***this might not be true, it's just an example). A PC recruiter will know the requirements for the various sectors and countries and will be able to tell you what you can do to make yourselves more competitive for those openings.

 

3. Most people who had a successful PC service will say it was life-changing. Many of those with whom I served and who already had Masters degrees ended up wanting to switch fields by the end of their service and are now getting their 2nd Masters degree. I'm no exception. I went into PC service thinking I would do International Relations or law school afterwards, but 3 years later (I extended my service for a 3rd year) and I'm fully committed to getting an MPA degree. It's something to consider.

 

4. On the other hand, now that I'm talking to admissions officers and grad school recruiters post-service, their eyes totally light up when I mention my Peace Corps experience. At a grad fair recently, one of them told me I could write my application into any school I wanted with my Peace Corps experience and great undergrad academic performance. Whether or not this is actually true I cannot say. I won't know if I'll be admitted and get the financial aid I need until April or May of next year.

 

5. Several grad schools have Fellowships exclusively available to Returned Peace Corps Volunteers. After asking around, it sounds like each school has a limited number of these fellowships, they're awarded on a combination of your Peace Corps service activities and academic merit (high GPA/high GRE), and they vary school to school. They often require a form of service work with a community organization (typically coordinated by the school) while you study.

 

6. I can't attest to the statistical fact of this statement, but of the married couples I knew in the Peace Corps, none of them served in the same organization or school with one exception. That exception was a couple who extended for a 3rd year, negotiated the placement directly with the organization, and got it approved by the Country Director. Peace Corps likes to spread the love, so to speak. If they find a site with 2 separate openings, they'll place you there. Conversely, you might get placed somewhere so small and remote, there isn't even reasonable transportation to a 2nd nearby area. Then you might work together. Peace Corps is becoming a bit more open of having a dialogue with candidates about which country/region they'd like to serve, but your specific site placement and assignment will be determined after you've landed and no earlier than halfway through your pre-service training. Then it depends on the local staff whether or not your preferences will be taken into consideration.

 

Just some thoughts. Be sure to check out facebook groups and talk to as many currently serving and returned volunteers as you can in order to get the best picture of the highs and lows of service. You can feel free to PM me for more info.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Calatoara

[TimB]

Thanks for the input Calatoara!

 

It's always good to get first hand responses. I've tried contacting a recruiter at the DC site twice, to no avail. Maybe the shutdown had something to do with it. I'll call next time instead of emailing. 

 

I can see benefits of  doing either first  now that I've thought more about it. If I got to PC first it will help me get into programs, if I do my master's first I'll be a better candidate for some of the more skillset oriented community and economic development projects.Whichever I do I think it'll be a great experience. 

 

My plan is to apply to Duke and NC State for now, since they are in town, and at least keep my options open while moving forward with the Peace Corps. Then in April I'll have a better idea about my odds of PC placement and which schools I can attend and for what price. 

 

Thanks again.

[Calatoara]

If you want to get more immediate contact and maybe some face-time, there are recruiters placed at two campuses in NC, Chapel Hill and Raleigh:

 

http://www.peacecorps.gov/meet/offices/washdc/campus/

 

You might have a better shot with them. They're usually grad students with a part-time job as a PC recruiter and RPCVs themselves.

[TimB]

Thanks, I dropped one of them a line.

[suani]

TimB, I also served in the Peace Corps and have been working for the federal government for 8 years since my return.

I would like to add to what Calatoara said. What do you want to do after the Peace Corps and after getting your Masters degree? If you think that you want to work for the federal government at all, I would suggest serving in the Peace Corps be one of the things you finish with before entering into the workforce. One of the perks that Peace Corps gives you after you have completed your service is "noncompetitive eligibility" for a job with the federal government. These days, it is impossible to get a job with the federal government if you don't have Fed status. Most qualified applicants from the outside would not even be considered, despite how much experience they might have for a particular job. Peace Corps gives you that foot in the door that most others would have had to join the military or come in as a low-level intern to get. It is true that Peace Corps is not very hard to get into, but completing the two years of service is not something many can do. My group of volunteers started with 14 people and ended with 5 people completing our service. Physical location, emotional distress, cultural differences, and a myriad of other issues are things that Peace Corps Volunteers face daily so if you can survive all of that after two years, you have accomplished something that not a lot of Americans can do. My two years in the Peace Corps were some of the best times of my life, but it was no easy feat.

Just something for you to consider, especially if you don't know yet what you want to do in the long term.

[TimB]

Thanks for the advice,

 

It does sound like very hard work, and I'm not taking it lightly. I'm actually more concerned about my wife. I've had some experiences: backpacking in the Andes for months straight, working as a backpacking and climbing guide, etc. that I think have prepared me pretty well for isolation and grueling work, but of course I realize that I will be challenged in the Peace Corps.

 

Let me ask: was the problem ever that you felt like you weren't doing anything? How bureaucratic is the Peace Corps? Am I going to get lectured on not wearing my uniform right continually? Are we given relatively free reign to complete our projects, or is your hand held the whole time? I've always thought of the Peace Corps as very professional, and I get that impression from volunteers' stories, but I heard the same things about Americorps which I found to be stifling and oriented towards those volunteers who were fresh out of high school (college in the Peace Corps) with little work experience or even experience managing a household. I'm not worried as much about the loneliness or work as I am about feeling I'm wasting my time in a "fake job," or US government PR campaign. I don't expect this to be an issue, but my experience with Americorps was very negative on that end. Granted, I did join Americorps through a pilot program where they waived interviews as part of the screening process, and I think my experience might not be representative. 

 

I do plan to research the various PC programs and look at their early termination rates and try to get in touch with volunteers who served in those programs before we accept. Management means a lot.

 

I am a little worried that we'll get dinged for leaving Americorps early, but I have great references from my FEMA supervisors, was offered a full time job in the Agency, and we both went right into full time non-profit work, so I hope they'll hear our case about the specific issues we encountered with a poorly implemented new pilot program. Still, I know that retention is a big deal from the Peace Corps side of things given the investments they make. Perhaps 2 years in graduate school would give us more time to remove the "stain." Sigh, Americorps is the only place I think where you can leave a well paid job to work almost for free, get great recommendations, get offered a promotion and a supervisory spot in your organization, and then get totally disavowed when you want to move on two months early to take another job offer, even though you're getting let go anyhow.  

 

What you've said is definitely true from what I've seen. I worked for FEMA in an internship like capacity through an Americorps program, and even with a strong skill set and agency connections I couldn't  even land an admin assistant job in the agency. Ironically, one of their more prestigious positions opened up on these Incident Management Action Teams (kind of a "first boots on the ground," strike force for managing disasters) and the selection process skipped over Federal status. I did get to interview, and eventually get offered that job, although I turned it down; I don't think my then fiancee was too keen on me moving us to Sacramento and than me leaving 75-90% of the year on travel work where I couldn't take her with me.  

 

However, I think things are a little different with the State Department because of the FSOT. Only about 2% of applicants make it past the test, and only about 1% make it on past the oral exam. After that it seems like preference would matter less, if it's even still taken into account. To be honest, I'm a little worried about my ability to get Top Secret clearance anyhow (I was 23 in 2011 and living in New York and Occupy Wall St. seemed like a great vehicle for financial reform); I'm sure some tweet about JP Morgan or drone strikes will come back to haunt me, so I'm not putting all my eggs in the federal basket. 

Edited November 5, 2013 by TimB

[TimB]

Also, you both seem to have liked your experiences. Where did you serve? I think our number one factor in accepting any given offer, aside from maybe the category of work, will be the strength of a country's individual program and the volunteer stories out of that program.

 

Its too bad they haven't published survey data since 2008. 

[DupontCircle]

You will spend a lot of time not doing much. It is not a "formal" job and so if you expect it to be a 40 hour a week skill building exercise then you'll be unhappy. Cultural exchange is a big factor and while not full of demonstrable technical use, I do believe it slowly but surely helps you do your work better. In my experience you have as much freedom as you choose but at the same end you could sit and do nothing for 2 years and no one was going to ride you, or come to you and give you work. The onus is completely on you to make of it as you please. I didn't do a single thing for an entire year, not one thing, and had a really good second year of work which is one of the pillars of all my applications.

 

I view PC as almost a 2 year training for working in development. It's not quite a real job but if you do it well, it orients you and sets you up well to continue to work in the field and how to do it well in theory. It was part of a larger plan on my part, which included a masters afterwards, and so during the long times I felt I was wasting my time, I could power through knowing that it was one step. 

 

Finally, I'd say the PC by itself doesn't help you much. There's a lot of RPCVs and so unless you find work directly in your country of service you'll face an uphill struggle to get some plum job in the field. I think you need your service and something else to set you apart. This is of course generalizing and many people get jobs they want because of their service but more do not. View it as a piece of the puzzle if you're actually committed to the full 2 years. 

[Calatoara]

The one thing I heard over and over again going in was that "your service will be what you make of it." It's good to talk to current and returned volunteers, but keep in mind that every person will have a different perspective. Once you get your site assignment and you're sworn in after training for about 3 months in-country, it's pretty much up to you. I got maybe one phone call and one visit from someone on PC Staff per year. People who go into education or are placed with a well-functioning NGO will have a more regular schedule of "work" than volunteers who are generally assigned to a village. I can honestly say that I was not happy every day of my service. There were plenty of times when I felt frustrated, when I believed there was no purpose for me being placed where I was, that I was viewed as a show-pony rather than a valuable resource by my host country national colleagues. But I always had to keep in mind that I was not in the first world anymore. Things don't always work the way we want, expect, or even need them to do when you're working in development. When a problem arises, however, unless it's a threatening situation, PC staff often took the approach of "YOU need to figure out a solution." As Dupont stated, the onus is completely on you. Depending on your situation, you might even act as your own boss for 2 years. As a volunteer in the TEFL education sector, I was required to show up and teach my assigned classes each week. Beyond that, I was able to choose what I wanted to pursue and how. Many PCVs spend the first year just figuring out HOW they can make anything work in their sites. Successful work in PC requires a lot of relationship building, and that's what I did for most of the first year. I just went around getting to know everyone, learning the intricacies of the local culture and aspects of life, and developing my credibility as a reliable community resource with good intentions. By the 2nd year, I was able to get a lot done, but even then there were a lot of ups and downs and bumps along the way.

 

I do admit that there MAY have been a 2-week period in August at one point when all the summer camps had ended but school hadn't started and I went through 4 seasons of Breaking Bad on my laptop while staying indoors to escape the 100+ degrees heat outside. And if you're in a cold weather country you might find yourself reading books you never thought you'd read while huddling next to your wood-burning stove.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the programs in Peace Corps are not centralized. For example, youth development can go in a lot of different directions, even within one country. I knew YD volunteers who worked with a Roma services NGO, a 4-H club, a school for the blind, a NGO that provided services to adults and children with developmental disabilities, a NGO that focused on helping those with limited mobility get a wheelchair. They were in the same training group, in the same country of service, but all of them had VERY different experiences both in their day-to-day activities and in their interactions with PC staff. So whatever you hear from anyone about their service, always take it with a grain of salt, and never assume any of it will be true for your situation.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the American staff of PC is rotated out at least every 5-7 years. PC employment is term-limited, in order to keep fresh minds and new ideas constantly flowing into the organization. My country director arrived in country barely 3 months before my training group. If I had talked to any of the PCVs in the previous training group, their experience with staff was dramatically different from the new 'regime' so-to-speak. Interpretation and implementation of policies and procedures will vary among directors.

 

I knew people who left because they were frustrated with the "bureaucracy," some who left for love, some who were asked to leave for failing to comply with PC policies, and a few who decided they were wasting their time. My group lost about 25% one way or another by the end of 2 years. Everyone is different in what they can and can't handle and what they will and won't tolerate.

 

As for the "stain" that you think is attached to the end of your Americorps work...I'll just say this. Peace Corps recruiters aren't looking for reasons to tell you no. They're looking for every reason to tell you yes. I had a "stain" on one part of my application, I had to talk it over with a placement officer at the DC office, and while she said it was a little concerning, it wasn't concerning enough to deny me an invitation. So I would say don't think of that as an instant "DENIED" stamp waiting to drop. They'll likely want to hear if/how you tried to improve or work through a less-than-ideal situation. If you can generate a good problem-solving narrative around the experience, that would be good.

[PRGirl475]

Again, I wanted to bring up Masters International... did you look into any of those programs? I see you mentioned Duke, but there are a lot of other programs where you can accomplish it all more quickly. I have a "dream" to join and study communications, but I hear so many horror stories about serving. I'm just wondering if your thoughts have changed since the last time you posted. 

[TimB]

So I got into school with solid funding so we're going that route for now. I can see applying 9-12 months out and seeing what job offers and their placement offers look like down the road.