SAIS vs. Fletcher vs. HKS vs. SIPA

[vinnievega]

I'm lucky enough to be spoiled for choice, but each of these schools bring something unique to the table, and I'm not sure which to choose.

First, background. I have a strong background in economics, b/n my undergraduate major and a couple years in macroeconomic policy. I'd like to focus on strategic studies at my chosen school. I'll likely be going for a job in the Foreign Service after finishing the MA. I'm probably going to combine this degree with an MBA. Finally, I don't handle cutthroat environments well and prefer relaxed areas.

Finances: Fletcher is giving me $20k (half of tuition), SIPA is giving $15k, SAIS $13k, and I don't know Harvard's scholarship offer yet (if one exists).

- Fletcher (MALD) was the first to notify me and has been showing the love. From what I've read, their program is the most flexible and the most close-knit. They're also giving me the most money. I haven't attended the open houses yet, but the general sentiment seems to be that students are quite happy there (something that carries a lot of weight for me). My principal concern about this program is its brand/reputation. Just from conversations with friends/coworkers, there is little recognition of the program relative to SAIS and especially HKS. I don't know how much the outside-DC location will harm job prospects.

- SIPA (MIA) has a large and strong program, but I worry that it is too big and sprawled out. I've read that some students need to submit cover letters and CVs for courses, which is very unappealing to me. But it carries Columbia's strong name. New York would be an amazing place to live, though I don't know how much I'd be able to do without a salary.

- SAIS (MA) has maybe the best reputation in IR and what seems like a highly touted strategic studies concentration, but I worry about its econ requirements (which I feel will be unnecessary given my background) and reputation for arrogance/being a bastion for neoconservatism.

- Harvard (MPP) has a name/brand unlike any other school. If I end up not going into the Foreign Service, it probably positions me for a job better than any of the other schools. It has a unique curriculum, but one that focuses more on public management more than other programs. Its international focus is also more lacking compared to the other programs.

Thoughts? If any of my impressions are incorrect, let me know.

[zourah]

I'm debating the same four, albeit with less money involved. I, for one, am going to all the visit days and plan to sit in on some classes.

[Jeppe]

Just a few short comments. Firstly, don't worry about the applicaiton process to specific SIPA courses. Even as a visiting student (getting lowest priority), I managed to get into 3 out of the 4 'limited enrollment' classes that I applied to. And it's really just about writing 2-3 sentences and submitting your CV.

Regarding SAIS and strategic studies - well, they have a strong name in this field, but it seems to me that most of the program is bound up on Eliot Cohen. If you're a fan of his work, then great. But if you're not, or if you're interested in a very broad selection of security studies courses, then I would go for SIPA or Georgetown.

[pika2]

I've heard some rave reviews from current SAIS students about its strategic studies program. A couple of students who are concentrating in strat told me it's one of the best, if not the best, program at SAIS. I can't comment on the other schools b/c I don't know as much about their strategic/security studies programs and haven't talked w/ students in those programs.

I was also a bit concerned about SAIS's "reputation" as a "bastion of neoconservatism," but I think those are mostly online rumors. The SAIS students I've talked with said that the school overall actually seems to be liberal; much of the student body is liberal, and there is a very diverse mix of political leanings throughout the faculty (it's just that some of the most prominent profs at SAIS happen to be neoconservative), though the staff tends to be right-wing in general. And as for the professors who are labeled as neoconservatives, they don't really carry their beliefs into their teaching but try to be as objective as possible.

[impatiens]

Congrats on your wonderful choices! You will be well on your way wherever you go.

- SAIS (MA) has maybe the best reputation in IR and what seems like a highly touted strategic studies concentration, but I worry about its econ requirements (which I feel will be unnecessary given my background) and reputation for arrogance/being a bastion for neoconservatism.

You can waive the econ requirements by writing exams. Details here: http://www.sais-jhu.edu/academics/econo ... r-exam.htm

I would be more concerned about arrogance at Georgetown, and even so I don't think it was over the top. Just typical (slightly childish) hoity-toity-ness. SAIS had a more"down to business" feel and I found the current students to be much more approachable. I had the opportunity to visit both SAIS and SFS in the fall so I can say so based on my visiting experience. Bottom line, there's no need to be arrogant at any of these places, but most people don't get here (and get out) without a teeny bit of killer instinct, and some level of pride about their achievements and the institution they attended. And I'm sure it's also based on the individual and that there are going to be nice and snotty people wherever you go.

[Cornell07]

Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with Neocon profs and this is coming from a dyed in the wool Democrat. In fact, one of my favorite professors from my undergrad years was Jeremy Rabkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_A._Rabkin). His obvious opposition to most of my classmates and me, combined with his truly professorial attitude, always made for fabulous discussions.

[patapata]

I'll likely be going for a job in the Foreign Service after finishing the MA. I'm probably going to combine this degree with an MBA. I'm probably going to combine this degree with an MBA. Finally, I don't handle cutthroat environments well and prefer relaxed areas.

vinnievega:

If you don't like cutthroat environments and prefer relaxed areas, you should probably avoid the Foreign Service. It's a viper's nest where some people would sell their own children to make it to senior levels. Living overseas is interesting, and some of your coworkers will be lovely, fascinating individuals with whom you will be friends forever. The other 75 percent of individuals, however, are insecure, nuts, and/or lonely and negatively affect not only your workplace but also your personal life.

[vinnievega]

If you don't like cutthroat environments and prefer relaxed areas, you should probably avoid the Foreign Service. It's a viper's nest where some people would sell their own children to make it to senior levels. Living overseas is interesting, and some of your coworkers will be lovely, fascinating individuals with whom you will be friends forever. The other 75 percent of individuals, however, are insecure, nuts, and/or lonely and negatively affect not only your workplace but also your personal life.

Good to know...

is that from experience, or by general reputation? I hadn't heard that about the job.

[happycamper]

Vinnievega - The people I have met in the Foreign Service or currently in training are far from vipers. Really good, interesting people actually. The officers with experience speak highly about it. Granted I am not in the FS but I thought I'd add that. More to the forum's theme, if foreign service is your calling, any of the four schools SAIS, Fletcher, HKS and SIPA will be excellent training. You just need to pass the pesky oral exam.

[fall09]

Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with Neocon profs and this is coming from a dyed in the wool Democrat. In fact, one of my favorite professors from my undergrad years was Jeremy Rabkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_A._Rabkin). His obvious opposition to most of my classmates and me, combined with his truly professorial attitude, always made for fabulous discussions.

I want to underline Cornell07's point. There is hardly anything more effective in shaping your opinion (unless you're like a flag in the wind of course) than studying with or under individuals who do not share their opinion, mainly because it makes you think harder about what you're about to defend. My international law professor, who is now sitting on the ICJ, and I shared hardly any common ground. It was by far the most productive and fun class.

[patapata]

Good to know...

is that from experience, or by general reputation? I hadn't heard that about the job.

Experience. I have been part of an FS family for nearly a decade. It is a dfficult environment in which to work, for many reasons. Unlike happycamper, who has never been in an embassy, I can tell you from experience that in my opinion the overwhelming portion of FS people are fairly unimpressive. As I mentioned, I have met amazing people, FSOs and specialists who will be my friends for the rest of my life. But, the majority of individuals were very difficult, rude, demeaning, self-impressed, and self-important.

Part of the problem is that the people with whom you work are not only your co-workers; they are the people with whom you socialize. Especially in impoverished or unsafe countries, often times the Marine House is the hub of American social activity. In any workplace, problems are bound to arise if you socialize and work with the same group of individuals week after week. And, certainly in a place like Paris or Sydney it is easy to socialize outside of the embassy or small expat community. But, there are many posts where this is not feasible. Your co-workers will also determine much about your personal life: where you live, what your security restrictions are, if your spouse gets a family-member job at the embassy, etc... You can imagine all the resentment and infighting this can create. In addition, many of your FS co-workers will be isolated and lonely. The single ones do not have any built-in support networks, and even the ones traveling with family are cut off from their wider social support networks. And just when you start making friends, either they move to a different post or you move on. That loneliness and isolation does terrible things to people. Finally, if you have a spouse who wants to work, this lifestyle will be incompatible with either your career, your marriage, or your spouse's goals.

I cannot say for certain that I would not have traveled the world with the FS if I had to do it all over again. I would, however, create a better exit strategy for myself and for my family. If you are interested in the FS, I would encourage you to try it before you get married and start a family. But, I think you should also plan very carefully to have an exit strategy, in case you don't like it. For example, avoid a two-year, visa mill consular assignment when you begin. Consular assignments in visa mills won't do much for your resume, in case you want to leave the FS. If the FS is your dream, you should certainly give it a shot. You might find that you like it.

[erichi]

just a quick addition to patapata's point:

i have had some fairly unique experiences with foreign service people as well. I lived in a west african country for three years, spending about a year as a contractor for usaid (i was independent and had my own living situation). my experience was that the vast majority of the FO's were either super-cool, generous, amazing people or very catty, whiny and self-absorbed. I didn't experience much in between. I made some very very good friends who ended up being excellent resources (both professional and academic) for me, and some really petty people who seemed to thrive on doing nothing but making my existence difficult as i attempted to perform my work obligations in the hyper-bureautic work environment.

i also can reaffirm pata's point about the bubble in which the vast majority of these officers live. they have their own communities/neighborhoods which make it extremely difficult to experience much of the local culture in the exotic places they live. Also, the work schedule (atleast for the country i was in) was intense ! My good friend working there regularly put in 10-12 hour days of office work -- which i think underscores the fact that, with many of these org's, it's pure office work just in a different setting....I saw enough to realize that there is no way in hell i could ever do that !!!

[patapata]

erichi makes some good points that I had completely forgotten about. Indeed, one of the reasons we have been trying to find a way out is because we keep saying we can see the interior of a cubiclefor 10 to 12 hours a day in more pleasant cities. And, I can tell you that have certainly been around FS people because yours is a common observation. You either love or hate your FS co-workers. Unlike in the US, where you will get along really well with a few of your coworkers, hate a few, and not feel one or way or another about most, in the FS the "incestous" locationships lead to strong feelings about most of your co-workers.

I just wanted to relate one of my favorite FS anecdotes. On our first assignment, I had been working in a French-speaking African post for a few weeks, and an FSO began complaning to me about her local subordinates. She told me that she often had to correct their French grammar. (Mind you, her subordinates were among the best educated people in this country.) I expressed amazement and guilibly asked her if she had gone to high school or university in France or another French-speaking country. Neither, she informed me; she had simply taken a three-month French course at the Foreign Service Institute. :roll: But, she nevertheless felt empowered to correct the French grammar or French-educated professionals. Expect to me tons of people like that; they create the cutthroat environment I was warning you about.

[IRboundgrad]

Since this is one of the few threads talking about SIPA, I was wondering if anyone knew about regional specializations, namely the courses that count toward the specialization requirement.

I'm looking to do a regional specialization in either Africa or the Middle East. I will probably be taking classes at either IAS or MEI to satisfy the requirement, and want to see if there are non-language courses offered by either of those institutes in French or Arabic focused either on development or cultural studies--intended for people who already speak the language.

Fletcher has "Regional Courses" that do this over the course of a year. I was wondering if Columbia had something similar.

[erichi]

erichi makes some good points that I had completely forgotten about. Indeed, one of the reasons we have been trying to find a way out is because we keep saying we can see the interior of a cubiclefor 10 to 12 hours a day in more pleasant cities. And, I can tell you that have certainly been around FS people because yours is a common observation. You either love or hate your FS co-workers. Unlike in the US, where you will get along really well with a few of your coworkers, hate a few, and not feel one or way or another about most, in the FS the "incestous" locationships lead to strong feelings about most of your co-workers.

I just wanted to relate one of my favorite FS anecdotes. On our first assignment, I had been working in a French-speaking African post for a few weeks, and an FSO began complaning to me about her local subordinates. She told me that she often had to correct their French grammar. (Mind you, her subordinates were among the best educated people in this country.) I expressed amazement and guilibly asked her if she had gone to high school or university in France or another French-speaking country. Neither, she informed me; she had simply taken a three-month French course at the Foreign Service Institute. :roll: But, she nevertheless felt empowered to correct the French grammar or French-educated professionals. Expect to me tons of people like that; they create the cutthroat environment I was warning you about.

OMG ! That sounds just like stuff i used to have to listen to in Mali !!!!! hahahaha

[johnxbatsy]

I'm looking to do a regional specialization in either Africa or the Middle East. I will probably be taking classes at either IAS or MEI to satisfy the requirement, and want to see if there are non-language courses offered by either of those institutes in French or Arabic focused either on development or cultural studies--intended for people who already speak the language.

Yes, SIPA does offer this to a certain degree. You can take courses throughout Columbia, so the offerings in other languages in terms of cultural studies are pretty extensive (especially for French, not sure about Arabic). In terms of development, I can't say if there are any. SIPA also offers many 1.5 credits

[zourah]

If you're really interested in taking courses in French, Columbia is the only IR school that has a dual degree program with Sciences Po. I believe you can also apply once you're already at SIPA to spend your second year there. Obviously, however, this means doing your master's in two different countries, so not sure if that's an advantage or a disadvantage for you.

Also, the sciences-po option, unless you start there, is still english-language study.

[yuhoolio]

Is anybody in here also considering Georgetown Walsh SFS or Yale for their decisions as well as the above listed?

It seems as if most people do not apply to Yale's MA program (one of the founding APSIA schools)? I know it has an academic/theory bent, and is a small program, but would you go to any of the above-listed schools such as Fletcher or HKS over Yale (MA IR) in heartbeat?

As for the environment of the choices above, I think at all of these schools, you will still get a variety of opinions and even at SAIS it is not "super-neoconservative" .