Suggestions for Ph.D programs in AfAm/Urban/incarceration history

[evanmarie]

I am a MA student looking into applying to Ph.D programs in the Fall. I have found a solid list of schools so far, but many are at the ridiculously competitive level (not that all Ph.D programs aren't, but some more than others). My interests are in 20th century African American history, urban history, social History, and more specifically race and incarceration, and it's effects on urban communities in the 60's and 70's, but also the involvement of radical groups (such as the Black Panther Party) in anti-incarceration efforts. 

So far my list includes Princeton, UCLA, Michigan, Penn, UIC, and Rutgers. As I said before, almost all hyper competitive. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for other programs that might be of interest, specifically some that are little less competitive admissions wise! Thanks. 

[Katzenmusik]

You might take a look at NYU -- they may have critical mass in the general areas you mention.

 

Also, if I were you, I'd apply only to places with highly-competitive admissions.  If you aren't accepted to a top program, work on your application and try again the next year.

[bigtime]

Those are all great programs that you have listed.  You might also want to take a look at Howard University, Ohio State University, and Michigan State as well.

 

 Also, have you thought about looking at Ph.D. programs in African American Studies?

[evanmarie]

I've been throwing the idea around, and possibly some American Studies programs, but I've been hearing some mixed things about applying to interdisciplinary programs. But do you have any suggestions?

[bigtime]

I've been throwing the idea around, and possibly some American Studies programs, but I've been hearing some mixed things about applying to interdisciplinary programs. But do you have any suggestions?

I think your initial list is pretty solid of history programs that you want to apply to that you wouldn't need to apply a Studies program.  I've always heard mixed things about interdisciplinary programs as well.  You could also look at history programs that schools also have graduate programs in African American studies, so that you could work with Professors in the history dept, as well as in the African American studies program.  I think Ohio State and Northwestern would both be good schools for that.  

 

What is your goal after the Ph.D?  Do you want to be a History Professor?

[evanmarie]

I will definitely look into both Ohio State and Northwestern! There is a major appeal to Studies programs, as my interests in incarceration lend themselves to many different disciplines (and scholars working in history, soc, american studies, afam and crim j) so it is of interest but as my eventual goal is to become a history professor and scholar, interdisciplinary programs still make me somewhat nervous. 

[diazalon]

Michelle Alexander at Ohio State should be at the top of your list, and is in a department with extensive additional resources.

Edited January 6, 2014 by diazalon

[junotwest]

Michelle Alexander at Ohio State should be at the top of your list, and is in a department with extensive additional resources.

If I'm not mistaken, Alexander is a law professor there but is affiliated with the Kirwan institute for race & ethnicity, which isn't exactly a department I don't believe, so you'd have to select an alternate prof as an advisor.  I'd recommend Prof. Hassan Jeffries from OSU in the history dept.  

[evanmarie]

Thanks for the suggestion, OSU seems like an overall great choice. Just a question, about Alexander, although I know I would need a primary History advisor (and Jeffries seems like he would fit perfectly) how common is it for an outside professor (such as Alexander) so serve on a committee, be an outside advisor, etc? Would that be a possibility? 

[junotwest]

Thanks for the suggestion, OSU seems like an overall great choice. Just a question, about Alexander, although I know I would need a primary History advisor (and Jeffries seems like he would fit perfectly) how common is it for an outside professor (such as Alexander) so serve on a committee, be an outside advisor, etc? Would that be a possibility? 

She very likely could serve on your thesis committee.  In my correspondence w/ OSU it was suggested that I also reach out to a prof in the English department because of my interests so it seems as though it's encouraged!  

[lafayette]

Met someone doing a similar topic during the admitted students visit at Johns Hopkins, so worth a look into. (Not that they aren't competitive).

[Whatishistoryanyway]

Some of our interests are very similar and OSU is currently at the top of my list. With that being said, I'm not exactly sure who there would to be to work with at some of those places you mentioned.

Sociologists attack this problem quite often, so I wouldn't rule it out as your field of interest. Also, when it comes to a topic that requires you to approach the problem from multiple disciplines, don't shy away from it. Be realistic in what you want out of this.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Whatishistoryanyway

[Zabaar]

Have you considered Robert Self at Brown?

[thedig13]

I am a MA student looking into applying to Ph.D programs in the Fall. I have found a solid list of schools so far, but many are at the ridiculously competitive level (not that all Ph.D programs aren't, but some more than others). My interests are in 20th century African American history, urban history, social History, and more specifically race and incarceration, and it's effects on urban communities in the 60's and 70's, but also the involvement of radical groups (such as the Black Panther Party) in anti-incarceration efforts. 

So far my list includes Princeton, UCLA, Michigan, Penn, UIC, and Rutgers. As I said before, almost all hyper competitive. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for other programs that might be of interest, specifically some that are little less competitive admissions wise! Thanks. 

 

I recently helped out with the Guantanamo Public Memory Project (GPMP), which represents the collective effort of about a dozen different universities. The project intersects with your areas of interest (incarceration, race), and has branched out to also include examinations of the prison system in the United States itself and its relationship with the AfAm community. There's some overlap between GPMP affiliates and the schools you're interested in (Rutgers), but others that aren't on your list and might be worth looking into (Columbia, Brown, NYU).

 

Also, not sure if you're aware of this, but there's a prison-abolition organization called "Critical Resistance." It was founded by Angela Davis (Black Panther), Ruth Wilson Gilmore (wrote Golden Gulag, major book about California prisons), and (I'm pretty sure) Mike Davis, who's the historian if you're interested in anything involving race/segregation/policing/incarceration in Southern California. They're all still active members, and some other founding members are employed as professors here and there, including at my undergraduate institution. Long story short, you might want to look into the organization and its partners; there are some prominent prison abolitionists in their ranks, and they have enough members working in academia that I wouldn't be surprised if you found a potential advisor among them.

 

I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see how much our interests overlap, evanmarie. I've done work on both the Black Panther Party and the California prison system, and we're applying to some of the same programs.

[thedig13]

You might take a look at NYU -- they may have critical mass in the general areas you mention.

 

Also, if I were you, I'd apply only to places with highly-competitive admissions.  If you aren't accepted to a top program, work on your application and try again the next year.

 

I second this. Ruth Wilson Gilmore (mentioned in my post above) teaches at NYU (although not in the History Department). Not sure how much room there is for interdisciplinary work in NYU's History program, but if there's any chance you can study with Gilmore, you should try.

 

EDIT: I made a mistake. She teaches at CUNY, not NYU. I apologize for my error.

Edited January 15, 2014 by thedig13

[evanmarie]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I will certainly look more into "Critical Resistance." 

 

Whatishistoryanyway, I am just curious which programs that I mentioned you are wondering who there would be to work with, and since our interests are similar, which programs you are thinking about applying to? 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

Out of the six you mentioned, I'm not sure who there would be to work with at the first four. UIC, I'm not so sure because I've never looked at their faculty. You can make Rutgers work, although I didn't apply because a POI there thought a little too much of himself when I contacted him.

I didn't apply to many programs because there aren't many people I can see myself working with/that fit my interests. For history, only OSU and NYU. I was going to do Duke and Berkley, but I was too focused on my other apps and missed the deadlines. The two I applied to were obviously higher on the list.

But there are also tons of sociology programs that would fit your interests. I only applied to UCSB (this one probably wouldn't fit your interests).

The Panthers will definitely be incorporated into my grad work and OSU seems to be the top place in the country, at least in my opinion, to work on them. Although Jeffries, who you mentioned before, worked on Carmichael and not the panthers, his research is very important to the history of the panthers. In their AAAS department, they have Curtis Austin and Judson Jeffries, two professors who also work on the panthers.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Whatishistoryanyway

[evanmarie]

Whatishistoryanyway, that's super interesting! And the more I hear about Ohio State the more I can't believe I wasn't planning on applying there to begin with. There are a ton of sociology programs that fit my interests of course, but I am not interested in studying sociology. I have been "a historian" my whole life, and while my interests have strayed to areas that other disciplines have focused on more thoroughly, I think that's one of the more exciting things about studying race and incarceration historically, it's something that needs to be done and hasn't been to the same extent it has been studied in other fields. 

 

At UCLA, I am interested in working with Scot Brown (who you may be interested in as well), Eric Avila (more urban), and Robin Kelley. At Michigan, it would be foremost Matt Countryman but also Stephen Berry, and Penn would be Sugrue and Katz. UIC has quite a few profs, and an entire Ph.D track devoted to "Work, Race and Gender in the Urban World." (My interests are still centrally Urban history, and that has effected the places I am planning on applying to). 

 

Because, as you guys have pointed out, this work is done more often in other disciplines, I am primarily looking at working with people in my broader fields of interest then attempting to find historians working on these same issues, because there aren't very many in the field. I don't know if I should rethink this approach, but that is how I am going about it thus far. 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

It seems like most of those ucla folks write on culture. It may be a stretch writing a statement aligning your interests, based off what you've described here. But if you really want to go to ucla, I suppose you could find a way to make it work.

Countryman also seems like a cultural guy, and I wouldn't rely on berry being around long enough for you to finish unless he gets tenure before you apply. Even if he does, I don't know if Michigan should be on your must-apply to list because of the interests.

If you like Sugrue at Penn, he's also a sociologist. Katz could work, but I've always thought he was a dinosaur. That may cause him to not be around long enough.. And he publishes every other day, so that could also be a problem for students.

Since you're looking for more suggestions, I say continue looking into the three guys at osu I mentioned and Alexander. Alexander's sister also teaches at osu in aaas, but may not be a match for you. I suggest looking into Singh at NYU.

You said the end goal is to be a professor. You may need to sit down and think about possible alternatives. To put this into perspective, my undergrad university had an opening tenure track position in 20th century us history last year. About two hundred people applied. Virginia and Berkeley, I was told, also had a similar opening. 300-500 applicants in their pools. You say you're not interested in sociology, yet your asking sociological questions. There are plenty of sociologists trained in history and using historical methods. In fact, the work I produce can fit into either discipline. Look into the new book Black Against Empire, a history of the panthers written by two guys at Berkeley. The lead author is a sociologist. Perhaps you should seek out advice from a sociologist at your current university or take a theory course. Not trying to be pessimistic at all nor am I trying to get you to change disciplines, just trying to help you keep your eyes open to other opportunities. We all want to be scholars, I would think--therefore we need to be ready for whatever comes our way if we want to make that happen.

Also, to correct someone from above. Angela Davis was NOT a panther. Also, Mike Davis is good as well

[thedig13]

Also, to correct someone from above. Angela Davis was NOT a panther. Also, Mike Davis is good as well

 

My apologies. I am aware that Angela Davis was never officially a Black Panther, but she was close enough to the Black Panther Party that I will sometimes state (wrongfully and mistakenly) that she was.

 

I will be sure to avoid this inaccuracy in the future.

[fig23]

It seems like most of those ucla folks write on culture. It may be a stretch writing a statement aligning your interests, based off what you've described here. But if you really want to go to ucla, I suppose you could find a way to make it work.

Countryman also seems like a cultural guy, and I wouldn't rely on berry being around long enough for you to finish unless he gets tenure before you apply. Even if he does, I don't know if Michigan should be on your must-apply to list because of the interests.

If you like Sugrue at Penn, he's also a sociologist. Katz could work, but I've always thought he was a dinosaur. That may cause him to not be around long enough.. And he publishes every other day, so that could also be a problem for students.

 

Plenty of people in history work with students whose interests aren't exactly the same as theirs.

 

Countryman is not primarily a cultural historian. He's a social movements historian and has a number of students working on urban history and the carceral state -- most also work with Matt Lassiter, some also work with Howard Brick, the more culturally-inclined work with Jay Cook, the more diasporically-inclined with Kevin Gaines, the more legally-inclined with Bill Novak, and the more gender-oriented with Sherrie Reynolds. There's also an entire urban planning school and public policy school from whom to draw committee members.

 

Sugrue has a lot of students, but is a great advisor. There used to be a lot of Katz-Sugrue students, less so now, which may mean Katz is heading toward retirement. But it's a department filled with solid people in Af-Am history including Barbara Savage, who is simply delightful.

 

You might think about Temple. Heather Thompson is there (though the rumor mill has her gunning for Michigan).

 

The point is: think broadly. Urban/Af-Am/Incarceration encompasses a lot, and there are many good places to do solid work in those fields.