how common is it to work in a lab for a year and not get any results?

[teletubbie]

i posted this somewhere else, but ive been volunteering in a lab for a year and i have yet to generate any data. worse part is that i want to apply for PhD programs at the end of this year, but with no results i think thats going to be difficult.

[TheCakeIsALie]

Very possible.

 

Results are not what's important when you're applying to PhD Programs. What's more important is that you can show to schools that you can think like a scientist.

[persimmony]

So how many hours have you been volunteering in the lab per week and what have you been doing there? How could you not generate ANY data after being there for a year..?

[teletubbie]

well, during the first 6 months i was doing cloning work, but in the last 6 months, ive been doing stuff where the data should be coming in. so during the first 6 months, i was there no more than 15-20 hrs a week, but for the last 6 months im there 30 hrs a week. and about why i cant get any data - idk. ive been practicing, to see if i get similar data to my mentor's and so far i havent. 

[Fun_Cookie]

Undergrad research is not the same as volunteer in a lab. If you don't have anything interesting things to put down on your statement of purpose, or for some crazy reasons they offer you an interview then you are screwed because you don't have anything to say that you did any work at all. I dont give a flying **** if you spend 40 hours a week doing cloning. To be successful in your PhD you need to get results.

Talk to your PI now and try to get some numbers.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Fun_Cookie

[persimmony]

I think you should wait a year and gain more solid research experience. It will make the application process so much easier. You have to have thorough research experience to able to show your competence in your SOP and interviewing with faculty will go much more smoothly if you have a project (with some results) that you know inside and out. If you're finishing up with undergrad, try to find a full time research technician job where you can really immerse yourself in the science. As long as your grades are good, when you apply next year you'll have a full year of solid research experience and an extra year of volunteering experience, making you a competitive candidate.

Edited February 28, 2014 by persimmony

[TheCakeIsALie]

I'm pretty sure what OP is saying is that he/she is getting negative results...This is very different from getting no data at all. As long as you can explain potential reasons why your results are different, I don't think it's that huge of an issue. Also, how does this reshape the original hypotheses formed by your mentor. If you're literally repeating a protocol that your mentor has optimized and just can't get the same results, you should be actively troubleshooting right now and figuring out what your possible sources of error are. It could be as simple as a single reagent gone bad... 

[elanorci]

^ I agree. I've been accepted to a good number of programs at this point and all of my results from the totality of my undergrad research are negative. There's a huge difference between not getting any results and getting negative results, and this is not the stage when you'll be penalized for getting negative results. As long as you can explain what you did, why, and why you think the results are negative (what alternative hypotheses this points to), you will be fine. This is what I've done in all of my interviews, and it's not hurt me at all, as far as I can tell. 

 

If you mean not that you're getting negative results and that something is wrong with your experimental assay or whatever, I think that's likely also fine, as long as you can explain why you think things are going wrong, what you've done to troubleshoot, and your PI's letter of rec backs it up. If they say something like "this student has been attempting to replicate results and hasn't been able to yet, but has been extremely thoughtful and creative in troubleshooting and coming up with potential reasons for the disparity," I don't imagine that'll hurt you. 

Edited February 28, 2014 by elanorci

[Vene]

I'm pretty sure what OP is saying is that he/she is getting negative results...This is very different from getting no data at all.

This is the impression I'm getting as well and I don't think it's that big of a deal. As long as your supervisor/PI/whatever is happy with your work and will write a good recommendation I don't see anything wrong.

[Dedi]

I've been working with a probability-learning project for 3/4 of the school year (including winter term) and I'm not getting a lot of data, but my situation is different. The rats aren't meeting the criteria (100 trials in 60 minutes) due to some complications with the operant chamber (basically, the rod is really rigid and hard to manipulate and they need to manipulate it hard enough so the software interprets it as "pressed"). Only two rats hold promise out of the eight tested. This will not lead to a publication, but I've convinced my research mentor to reduce the criteria (It was supposed to be 4 consecutive successful sessions, but now the "consecutive" part is dropped) to get some numbers before the school year ends. This would most likely lead to a poster highlighting preliminary results. We'll try again next year with a new procedure. My research mentor has been thrilled with my commitment to this project that I'll likely end up first or second author if next year produces enough results to lead to a publication.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in relation to undergraduate research, process seems to matter as much as product. Sure, getting positive results would be nice, but what you gained from it is just as important, if not more so. If I learned anything about my behavioral analysis course, it's that process matters.

[teletubbie]

thank you all for your response. i really dont know whether my mentor is annoyed or not, so im going to speak to him hopefully monday and see what he's thinking. i think (i know i should probably know this, but he hasnt stated it outright to me) that i am just repeating experiments he's already done. ive been avoiding this conversation, but i think its time to have it, in case he wants me out or something and i can find another lab sooner rather than later. ive also been making all these mistakes, like i left a tube of DNA in the cell culture hood overnight when the UV light was on so i wouldnt be surprised if he is annoyed. 

 

how do you guys show appreciation for what your mentors have done for you? ive learned a lot from my mentor and dont want this all to end on a sour note. 

[Dedi]

I sent the mentors I did research with/felt close to a holiday card (this was last semester, keep note) with a hand written note saying how much I appreciated their help (showing with examples, I feel it makes my words more meaningful) and a Barnes and Noble gift card (no more than 10 dollars for the professor I felt close to, 5 dollars for the mentors I did research with). My professors had a positive reaction to that.

 

You probably want to do something different (like a blank thank you card that you write the note in). In my opinion, do enough that shows your appreciation, but not too much that the prof perceives that you're bribing your way into a good relationship (whether it is true or not). Each professor is different, and the student-professor relationship is different, so this is a relative thing.

 

Good luck with your talk!

[wishfulthinking2]

What is more important than "results" are the skills/techniques you have learned and used in the lab. Make a list of those, use of equipment, soft ware, etc.