AMA: Current SAIS Europe Student

[keithc]

I think is pretty much a no brainer. IHEID has a great reputation, living in Geneva offers plenty of opportunities for professional development and you can even learn/improve your French, all while saving $70-80k (imagine what you could otherwise do with this money and how much freedom of choice regarding your job search it is gonna award you!).

Thanks pyrhuss! I know what you mean but i still have some concerns. IHEID is with no doubt a great school, but for Chinese students, not so much. For one thing, from what I hear there does exist discrimination against non-EU students in the job market. It's not necessarily someone's fault, for we do have disadvantages in terms of languages, etc. So pretty much for sure i have to come back to my home country when i graduate, but i think the reputation of IHEID is kind of confined to Europe. For another, the courses in SAIS are more quant so i might be equipped with some "hard skills".

 

To be honest the money thing is the only thing that's holding me back from confirming the acceptance at SAIS. i can only hope this will turn out be a fine investment and that i can earn the money back before too long.  

[kb6]

In your opinion, what are the strong and weak concentrations at SAIS and SAIS Europe? I'm most leaning toward SAIS for next year, but am a bit concerned that my intended concentration (international law and organizations) is one of the weaker ones. On the other hand, I'm also wondering about approaching my main interest (democratization and human rights) from one of the regional concentrations, either European studies or Latin American studies, which I've heard are both strong. I'm also early in my IR career so probably only 80-90% sure of what I want to go into anyway. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the relative strength of each concentration so I know what I'm getting myself into.

 

You should see if SAIS will set you up to talk with students in your potential concentrations. The regional concentrations here tend to be EXCELLENT, and I have heard great things about both European Studies and Latin American Studies. They both have very dedicated faculty and highly-developed internship programs. European Studies is actually based in Bologna, so there's a major advantage there. I can't speak from experience, but I have heard some ILaw students complain about lack of faculty guidance in terms of finding internships and the like, but they all seem to love their courses.

[kb6]

Thank you soooooooo much for answering the questions. I'm now choosing between SAIS DC and IHEID, both no funding. I'm leaning toward SAIS but it could be $70-80k more expensive. Do you think it's worth it, to spend that amount of money for its uncertain advantage over IHEID? My mom is willing to help me out but still....

 

BTW spending the first year in Europe sounds really attractive. All that bonding with classmates and focusing on study...I'm not really an internship/job-hunting type of person.   

 

 

Thanks pyrhuss! I know what you mean but i still have some concerns. IHEID is with no doubt a great school, but for Chinese students, not so much. For one thing, from what I hear there does exist discrimination against non-EU students in the job market. It's not necessarily someone's fault, for we do have disadvantages in terms of languages, etc. So pretty much for sure i have to come back to my home country when i graduate, but i think the reputation of IHEID is kind of confined to Europe. For another, the courses in SAIS are more quant so i might be equipped with some "hard skills".

 

To be honest the money thing is the only thing that's holding me back from confirming the acceptance at SAIS. i can only hope this will turn out be a fine investment and that i can earn the money back before too long.  

 

I don't know much about IHEID, but I would concur that it's difficult for non-EU students to get jobs in Europe (although I certainly know some who have managed to snag internships for the summer, including one Chinese girl). Regardless, 70-80k is a huge amount of money, especially if you're borrowing it. I couldn't imagine turning it down unless you've soberly run some numbers on how your life would look post-graduation and determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that SAIS would give you something that IHEID never could. 

[pyrhuss]

A couple of more things to consider:

 

1.) As far as opportunities for professional development are concerned, IHEID definitely has the upper hand as you would be spending two years in Geneva where there are tons of NGOs, Think Tanks and UN organizations around that offer part-time jobs and internships to students, including internationals. While I'm not 100% familiar with the employment regulations for Chinese students in Switzerland (NOT a EU member!), but I would suggest you call the school and talk to them about it. With SAIS, you would spend one year in Bologna, which is a great city, but does not offer a lot of those opportunities, and then the second year in DC, where, as a F-1 student, you would confined to a job ON campus (i.e. you could not benefit from the professional opportunities DC offers at all!). In general, European countries also seem less restrictive with employment for foreigners than the US.

 

2.) The most important thing to consider is what you want to do after you graduate. What field do you want to enter? With what kind of organization (domestic, international, multilateral)? Unless you're set on forging a career in the private sector, your income will be limited and you will not ear significantly (or even anything) more entering the job market with a SAIS degree rather than one from IHEID. It is true that IHEID is certainly better known in Europe, however, remember that this is a VERY (!) international school (much more so than SAIS which still tends to be somewhat US-centric) with graduates all over the world. I would not underestimate how well the school is known in relevant circles (certainly less so in the private sector).

 

In general, I think the idea that you are gonna get a job just because you went to this or that school is completely misleading if you are comparing schools of that quality. What matters much more than the name is the quality and rigor of your education as well as are the connections you forge that help you land your first job.

 

N.B.: I am not in any way affiliated with IHEID. I have friends attending both schools and both seem perfectly happy with their choices. I just want to force you to really ponder whether there is anything that justifies spending such an insane amount of money over a much cheaper, albeit not lesser school.

[kb6]

A couple of more things to consider:

 

1.) As far as opportunities for professional development are concerned, IHEID definitely has the upper hand as you would be spending two years in Geneva where there are tons of NGOs, Think Tanks and UN organizations around that offer part-time jobs and internships to students, including internationals. While I'm not 100% familiar with the employment regulations for Chinese students in Switzerland (NOT a EU member!), but I would suggest you call the school and talk to them about it. With SAIS, you would spend one year in Bologna, which is a great city, but does not offer a lot of those opportunities, and then the second year in DC, where, as a F-1 student, you would confined to a job ON campus (i.e. you could not benefit from the professional opportunities DC offers at all!). In general, European countries also seem less restrictive with employment for foreigners than the US.

 

2.) The most important thing to consider is what you want to do after you graduate. What field do you want to enter? With what kind of organization (domestic, international, multilateral)? Unless you're set on forging a career in the private sector, your income will be limited and you will not ear significantly (or even anything) more entering the job market with a SAIS degree rather than one from IHEID. It is true that IHEID is certainly better known in Europe, however, remember that this is a VERY (!) international school (much more so than SAIS which still tends to be somewhat US-centric) with graduates all over the world. I would not underestimate how well the school is known in relevant circles (certainly less so in the private sector).

 

In general, I think the idea that you are gonna get a job just because you went to this or that school is completely misleading if you are comparing schools of that quality. What matters much more than the name is the quality and rigor of your education as well as are the connections you forge that help you land your first job.

 

N.B.: I am not in any way affiliated with IHEID. I have friends attending both schools and both seem perfectly happy with their choices. I just want to force you to really ponder whether there is anything that justifies spending such an insane amount of money over a much cheaper, albeit not lesser school.

 

I totally agree with your cautioning of Yuanchen Cai re: taking on so much extra debt for dubious added prospects. If s/he were an American wanting to work in DC, I could see the dilemma. But if you're wanting to work internationally, then an American degree wouldn't seem to provide that much extra value (unless it is from a school that is truly internationally known, like Harvard).

 

However, I think it's worth mentioning that foreign students can still do internships in DC as long as they are unpaid, which - quite frankly - most IR internships are. Foreigners are then are entitled to work in the US for a year after graduation. I have no idea how student visas work in Switzerland, but here in Italy, us non-EU students can only work on-campus for 10 hrs/week. Switzerland is known for having some of the strictest immigration laws in Europe, so I doubt their student visas are much more permissive.  

[olgs7]

 A lot of friendship forming happens during pretermn. 

 

 

Just wondering - is it difficult for students who come after the preterm to adjust if many friendships are formed ahead of time? I am not sure I would be able to afford the preterm on top of the rest of the cost. I have all of my economics courses, but if I went, I would probably brush up on mu college Italian. Any thoughts on this?

[IRToni]

 

However, I think it's worth mentioning that foreign students can still do internships in DC as long as they are unpaid, which - quite frankly - most IR internships are. Foreigners are then are entitled to work in the US for a year after graduation. I have no idea how student visas work in Switzerland, but here in Italy, us non-EU students can only work on-campus for 10 hrs/week. Switzerland is known for having some of the strictest immigration laws in Europe, so I doubt their student visas are much more permissive.  

 

Current IHEID student here. The regulations are as follows: Non-EU internationals can not work for teh first 6 months of their stay in Geneva, after which they can work 15 hours a week (both paid and unpaid, on- and off-campus) for the remainder of the course. During the summer, you can work full-time (also paid and un-paid) as a student. Afterwards, if your employer follows Swiss labor laws (which is a big IF), they can only hire non-Eu people for jobs where they can't find an EU person to work there, which is difficult. However, none of the international organizations here follow Swiss labor laws, which means they can hire whomever they want (UN, WTO etc.). For most of these jobs, you need at least 2 years of WE, though. Hope this clears up some stuff!

[j023]

Just wondering - is it difficult for students who come after the preterm to adjust if many friendships are formed ahead of time? I am not sure I would be able to afford the preterm on top of the rest of the cost. I have all of my economics courses, but if I went, I would probably brush up on mu college Italian. Any thoughts on this?

 

I'm planning to do it, but only so that I can knock an econ req off my list and allow me to start taking higher level econ courses. Head-start in socializing/Italian are perks, but not worth the money in my opinion. That's a month's rent, a month's living expenses, and 840-1200 or however many euros just to get a leg-up in Italian and start meeting people earlier? Everyone has different priorities, but I wouldn't be able to justify that!

[WinterSolstice]

I'm planning to do it, but only so that I can knock an econ req off my list and allow me to start taking higher level econ courses. Head-start in socializing/Italian are perks, but not worth the money in my opinion. That's a month's rent, a month's living expenses, and 840-1200 or however many euros just to get a leg-up in Italian and start meeting people earlier? Everyone has different priorities, but I wouldn't be able to justify that!

 

Agreed. If I were to do italian prep, I would do it before I left and study it on my own. I'm fluent in french, so I can't really imagine italian being too too hard, or a pre-term course in it worth the money. Econ could be worth it though. The pre-term econ fulfills the econ graduation requirements, right? so it would definitely provide more options, whereas I couldn't really justify taking italian.

[olgs7]

Are the pre-term economics courses easier than taking the same ones during the actual term? I know that there are no grades, but rather pass, high pass, etc. Besides getting into more advanced economics courses, what are the advantages of taking these courses in the pre-term?

[WinterSolstice]

Are the pre-term economics courses easier than taking the same ones during the actual term? I know that there are no grades, but rather pass, high pass, etc. Besides getting into more advanced economics courses, what are the advantages of taking these courses in the pre-term?

 

My guess is you could possibly take it without fear of it really dinging your GPA? If it's just a pass/fail, if you pass, you're probably good to go? That's only a guess though. I suppose the real benefit would be taking it with the rest of the incoming class, making connections, friends, and also identifying who is good at econ and can help you later on down the road for the other econ requirements.

[kb6]

Sorry for the slow response - hadn't checked this thread in a while. Hopefully it's not too late.

 

No matter when you take it, micro is probably going to be hard for you. I did it during preterm, and I did fine but it was challenging. If anything, it's more difficult than during the regular semester because it's so compact. A number of people I know actually failed the midterm and had to really get it together for the final. For me the benefits were a) not having it appear as a grade on my transcript! getting it out of the way to take more interesting econ classes and c) socializing during preterm.

 

Of course if you come after preterm you will make friends, especially if you have a tight-knit concentration, are naturally outgoing, or get along really well with your roommates (who hopefully attended preterm). But it's true that a lot of early friendships are formed during that time, and a number of the people I know who came afterwards definitely complained that things were a bit harder for them. 

Edited May 8, 2014 by kb6