Goldman School of Public Policy (University of Berkeley) or Harris School of Public Policy (University of Chicago)

[Rishi123]

Hi, 

 

I have received two admits - Goldman School of Public Policy (University of Berkeley) and  Harris School of Public Policy (University of Chicago). I was a deferred candidate at Harris. 

 

Both the schools have not given me any scholarship/funding. I am an applicant from India and after my masters, I wish to return to India for ground level work. I have got 5 yrs of work experience - 3 for equity and 2 for social. 

 

My questions:

- which of the two schools are better? I wish to specialize in social policy for poverty and inequality studies. which has a more international value?

- I have been told after RA/TA ship at berkeley, the college is relatively more affordable. How realistic is this opinion and what are the chances to get RA/TAship?

- can existing and alumni guide me on the tentative expenditure for both these colleges?

- what other options should I explore to secure full or partial funding?

- are there any other 'right' questions that I should be asking?

 

thanks!

[gryphonbones]

I don't have any information, but I want to give this thread attention, because I am also interested.

[s33]

Chicago Harris grad here.  I do not think there are any appreciable quality differences between Chicago and Berkeley, so your decision should probably be based on finances and locational preference.  Both programs are strong in policy analysis generally, and social policy in particular, and both are more geared to domestic policy.  Chicago is very good in quantitative analysis and methods, but I suspect Berkeley is as well (everything I have heard anecdotally suggests this to be the case).  In short, these are very similar programs, although Berkeley is significantly smaller in terms of student numbers.  This can definitely be a plus in Berkeley's favour, although I rather liked Chicago's size because I got the chance to interact with a very diverse group of people (there are a lot of international students in the program as well).

 

As an international, you will likely not qualify for in-state tuition remission, even if you manage to secure an RA/TA position, so I doubt that finances will be all that much different between the two.

[chocolatecheesecake]

This is a great question for GSPP staff at Berkeley, because you've been admitted and they can now give you personalized attention. Go hunt them down and make them work for you! Same when it comes to your questions for Chicago. When I visited last spring and talked to Berkeley, both staff and current students told me that those positions are not rare, but you do need to actively seek out the ones you're interested in and pitch yourself to the professors. I was told in particular about a very popular undergrad class taught by a sociology professor called Wealth and Poverty which has *twenty* sections of undergraduates, all needing their own assistants! More people have teaching positions than research positions, but it sounded like anyone who really wanted one got it. They weren't all reserved for students in their second semester or second year of the MPP either; several people I spoke to said they started in their first semester at Goldman.

 

Just looking online, here's what I've found in terms of fee remissions and things like that: 

 

Great overview of how those positions work: http://gspp.berkeley.edu/admissions/tuition-and-financial-aid/gspp-ase-employment

Detailed guide about working as a Graduate Student Instructor/ Researcher (GSI/GSR are their terms for TA/RA): http://grad.berkeley.edu/policies/guides/category/appointments-guide/what-you-need-to-know-appts/

Fee remission bulletin in all its glorious detail (what you have to do to get it and keep it): http://grad.berkeley.edu/policies/guides/fee-remission-bulletin/

Registrar's updated fees/tuition figures: http://registrar.berkeley.edu/feesched.html

 

There is nothing that says international students can't qualify for fee remissions. In fact, the second link I provided specifically details the English language requirements for students who did not attend undergraduate institutions in the States to become a GSI/GSR. Tuition remission here is not tied to in-state or out-of-state or even federal citizenship -- it is a perk privy to employees of the university who are also attending school there. Since you become an employee and a part of Berkeley's graduate student employee union, you are entitled to remissions. These links describe in great detail what kinds of fees or tuition are remitted after how many hours of work or what percentage FT (full time) you are, and don't forget to check the registrar's for updated figures on exactly how much money that means you get back. (Also, if you think this is generous, I've heard even better things about the deal that Michigan's graduate student union received... it's something close to 100%!)

 

To better differentiate the two schools, I think you should look more closely at each school's faculty and research areas to figure out who does the kind of work you want to get experience in and ideally pursue after graduation. I recently did the same thing myself by going through each faculty's profile meticulously. (Now I know everyone's names!) Since you only have two schools to decide between, this will not take insanely long. I think UChicago may have an edge in helping you find a job in India after graduation -- I know they just opened their Center in Delhi -- and I don't think Goldman's international focus is as strong in terms of their career services. Nonetheless, that's more a question for GSPP Career Services themselves. What I do think is that Goldman does have a smaller cohort than Chicago, so that may be helpful too.

 

Finally, Chicago is going to give you some cold, cold winters. Okay, approximately just two. =) Cost of living is going to be quite cheap for a large US city. Expect to pay between $700-900 a month for a studio or one-bedroom in Chicago. That cost will probably double when you go to Berkeley and rent an apartment in Berkeley or Oakland, but you'll have much more mild weather to deal with. 

 

I wish I was in your situation since Berkeley was my top choice and I did a lot of research into the school, but ultimately, they will both be great experiences for you. Best of luck!

[Rishi123]

Guys - thank you for such an elaborate reply. It really helps but I think eventually the decision will depend on the funding opportunities more than anything else.

As for berkeley, is the lack of international diversity and employment opportunities internationally a handicap. or is it just a misplaced notion?

 

my area of specialization is social policy - poverty and inequality. 

which school would you all will suggest me?

 

@chocolatecheesecake - why was berkeley your top choice?

Purely on the international brand value, what would be world's top 5 MPP schools and where does berkeley and Chicago figure in it? I understand its a very generic question, but I am also looking at a non-specific answer.

 

thanks all.

[chocolatecheesecake]

Guys - thank you for such an elaborate reply. It really helps but I think eventually the decision will depend on the funding opportunities more than anything else.

As for berkeley, is the lack of international diversity and employment opportunities internationally a handicap. or is it just a misplaced notion?

 

my area of specialization is social policy - poverty and inequality. 

which school would you all will suggest me?

 

@chocolatecheesecake - why was berkeley your top choice?

Purely on the international brand value, what would be world's top 5 MPP schools and where does berkeley and Chicago figure in it? I understand its a very generic question, but I am also looking at a non-specific answer.

 

thanks all.

 

Rishi, I definitely urge you to look more at the faculty and identify specific people you are interested in working with, given your interest in social policy. My impression is that you will find a lot of people. I wanted to focus on the same area at Berkeley, and had good conversations with Jesse Rothstein (rothstein@berkeley.edu) who is very useful and helpful to talk to. I think suggestions from people will only take you so far now. With only two choices, I'd say you should put in the time to closely examine every aspect, email professors you want to talk to, and ask them about your potential path or opportunities in the area of your interest should you attend. Close-detailed comparisons of the two programs, faculty, and what you want out of the degree is the best way to help you figure out the best fit for you at this point.

 

Also, in terms of the international brand value, I think UChicago probably fits slightly above Berkeley, but that's just in terms of how well people know it as an undergraduate school. I think Berkeley has the slightly more prestigious MPP program. IMHO, brand names don't confer any additional advantages when you are looking at two schools that are both really up there, so you can only look at what is right for you. 

 

Good luck!

[Rishi123]

Hey chocolatecheesecake, many thanks for your detailed reply. I think you are right about the approach that I should be taking. Instead, I have already written to them and they have come back with the list of professors that I should be looking at. Few on my list are : Jennifer Bussell (http://gspp.berkeley.edu/directories/faculty/jennifer-bussell), Alain de Janvry, Hilary Hoynes, Rucker Johnson, and Eugene Smolensky, among others. 

I will certainly write to them at the earliest.

 

In addition, the equations have clearly changed. I have just received an admit from NUS, with full funding, stipend, travel and other allowances and even accomodation expense. If I go for it, I will perhaps have huge saving by the end of course whereas in case of GSPP, I will incur enormous cost relatively. Now this proposition terribly changes the proposition. It becomes GSPP versus NUS. I believe joining NUS will not give me access to global public policy elite and keep asia focused. The right network will elude me. Plus, a phd from a more reputed institute will further become distant. You know my area of interests, and I want to get into global policy advocacy before stepping back into India with experience and goodwill.

 

does not GSPP fit better in my picture? Do you think trading that kind of money for long term goal is justified? Are there any things that should I be looking at while doing a comparison. Prof. Brussel's research precisely maps what I want to learn. 

 

thanks a lot for bearing with me!

[diyadeb]

On 27/03/2014 at 4:19 PM, Rishi123 said:

Hey chocolatecheesecake, many thanks for your detailed reply. I think you are right about the approach that I should be taking. Instead, I have already written to them and they have come back with the list of professors that I should be looking at. Few on my list are : Jennifer Bussell (http://gspp.berkeley.edu/directories/faculty/jennifer-bussell), Alain de Janvry, Hilary Hoynes, Rucker Johnson, and Eugene Smolensky, among others. 

I will certainly write to them at the earliest.

 

In addition, the equations have clearly changed. I have just received an admit from NUS, with full funding, stipend, travel and other allowances and even accomodation expense. If I go for it, I will perhaps have huge saving by the end of course whereas in case of GSPP, I will incur enormous cost relatively. Now this proposition terribly changes the proposition. It becomes GSPP versus NUS. I believe joining NUS will not give me access to global public policy elite and keep asia focused. The right network will elude me. Plus, a phd from a more reputed institute will further become distant. You know my area of interests, and I want to get into global policy advocacy before stepping back into India with experience and goodwill.

 

does not GSPP fit better in my picture? Do you think trading that kind of money for long term goal is justified? Are there any things that should I be looking at while doing a comparison. Prof. Brussel's research precisely maps what I want to learn. 

 

thanks a lot for bearing with me!

I know this is really late but which one did you end up going to? I'm in a similar predicament and my concerns are like yours! I've had my NUS interview and am waiting for the results. Got accepted to Harris and Goldman but without any funding