opinions about the applications with a low undergrad GPA?!

[a piece of bread]

Hi all,

Let's talk about the situation of applicants who have low undegrad grades. As you know, some schools have strict cut off GPA while others state that it is important but not everything. We, this kind of applicants, need to power other parts of our application files such as GRE, TOEFL (for intl stu.), knowing more foreign languages which is important for some departments... bla bla bla. I have a terrible GPA in undergrad study which is 2,92 but I am receiving my master degree this year with a high GPA which is 3,87 in a relevant field with Sociology (Cultural Studies). In addition, GRE scores: V:650 Q:800 My undergrad department was Economics.

So, who have low GPA in undergraduate? What did you do to meet this deficiency? How do you see your chances to get in?

[Stories]

I had a low undergrad GPA (2.85), an average master's grad GPA (3.45), and average GRE scores (520V, 730Q, 5A). I got into several schools. My master's IS the same field as my PhD, and my undergrad is a related discipline (Biology). There is no undergraduate programs in my field, so that might be why my undergrad GPA isn't a huge predictor of acceptance into schools.

I had no idea what my shots of getting in to any schools were. So I applied liberally.

I don't know if I compensated for anything on my application, but here's what I did apply with. A clear purpose and knowledge of what I wanted to pursue and why. Why school X was a great fit for me and what I could bring to it. Extensive research experience dating back to undergrad and two years of full-time RA as a MPH student.

[rae]

I had a 3.12 undergraduate GPA. I never did a masters, but I have worked in a neuroscience lab for the last two years. My time in the lab allowed me to publish a conference abstract and present a poster at a conference as well. I think those were my saving graces

[belowthree]

2.7 here. Applied to 11 schools, ranged all around the rankings, looked mostly at any school I felt I could do decent work at and really tried to get a broad range of schools all around the rankings.

For the most part, research is the best way to overcome a bad GPA. Just do enough research so that it doesn't matter what your GPA is. Make them want you based on your research alone.

Strict GPA cutoffs aren't always as strict as they appear to be (sometimes they are) it really depends on the program. My policy was to apply without considering what they had to say about GPAs.

[a piece of bread]

Stories, it is cool to hear that you got an acceptance from Yale. I think, your recommedations would be valuable. Actually I plan to prepare to 8-10 schools to decrease the risk. As you mentioned, it is really important to show what you want to do and how much you want it. I think I can show it in statement of purpose which should be strong.

I am an international applicant, and TOEFL score matters for me. It is 107.

And belowthree, yes research is essential for your field. I guess well-structured sample papers (eg master thesis) may be helpful and interesting for the committie. and I am curious about which schools you got in? Do you mean that some schools can accept without seeing GPA which is below 3 despite its cutoff? I did not know this.

[Stories]

One thing to keep in mind is that various schools are known for having low GPAs amongst their studentss. My undergrad institution falls into this category (Boston University). Also, all the schools I applied to that had "GPA requirements" said that the cutoff was more of a recommendation rather than a strict cutoff. Obviously, if you've got research experience (which nearly all PhD applicants do) and a clear objective, you shouldn't have any problems.

[leetchisgod]

One thing to keep in mind is that various schools are known for having low GPAs amongst their studentss. My undergrad institution falls into this category (Boston University). Also, all the schools I applied to that had "GPA requirements" said that the cutoff was more of a recommendation rather than a strict cutoff. Obviously, if you've got research experience (which nearly all PhD applicants do) and a clear objective, you shouldn't have any problems.

BU screwed with you as well eh? SMG 2.78, turned into a 3.8 in England where they actually rewarded performance. When I applied in England for my masters I actually sent the nytimes article about BU's grade deflation. I think it helped a bit, luckily I had two great references and was switching fields. After that it was just a matter of enjoying what I was studying and the good grades followed, good enough for a phd.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I was hoping to find a post on this subject. I have just realized I want to go to grad school for geography. I'm still finishing up my senior year for a BA in environmental studies with a double minor in asian studies and econ. I sucked at econ and it's pulled my GPA down to a 2.75. Although I show continuous improvement on the GPA from my freshman year to senior year. All the programs I've looked at at the schools I want to go to all say they want at least 3.0. I'm really scared and don't think I have a chance. I plan to work for a year and start my applications, prep for GRE again and get my life in gear. Everyone tells me that all I need is decent GREs, good recommendations and great statement of purpose and I should be fine. I don't know who to listen to.

[fuzzylogician]

Everyone tells me that all I need is decent GREs, good recommendations and great statement of purpose and I should be fine. I don't know who to listen to

It'll also help if you have a good GPA in your major and in your upper division courses. Showing improvement in the last two years or so of your studies with a good in-major GPA (regardless of lower grades in fields you have decided do not work for you), and making a good case for yourself emphasizing this in your SOP will help your application to be successful.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I also have a part time job offer from a company called Green Living Project out of so cal. They do grass roots sustainability education in developing countries and was wondering if this would be relevant to put on the application. One of my career advisors suggests that working for a year could also help my chances of getting in. Sometimes I feel kind of lost. I know what I want but I can't really prove it on paper so to speak.

[liszt85]

It'll also help if you have a good GPA in your major and in your upper division courses. Showing improvement in the last two years or so of your studies with a good in-major GPA (regardless of lower grades in fields you have decided do not work for you), and making a good case for yourself emphasizing this in your SOP will help your application to be successful.

This advice above is good. I had dismal grades on my transcript during the initial few years. My cumulative at one point in time was a horrendous 5.2/10!! It is now 7.0/10. My last 2 years of Physics (major) would be close to 8.0/10 and the last 2 semesters were the best (avg=8.8/10). So there was a clear improvement over the past two years. Some places still did have a problem with my grades (eg: McGill). Some places did not (eg: Northwestern, Ohio State University, McMaster, Georgia Tech). Northwestern in fact offered me a place on the 23rd of January and I was probably offered a place before many applicants who were linguistics majors and who had much higher GPA's than mine but my undergraduate research (done independently of the courses for no credit) resonated with what a Professor(senior) there wanted to do and there was a near perfect research interest fit with many other faculty members. I was able to successfully demonstrate that to them through my SOP as well as my writing samples and my publication.

So that's my story, hope it helps...

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

So I guess a good place to start would be to contact faculty with prospects of what you want to do and see if they are interested?

[fuzzylogician]

So I guess a good place to start would be to contact faculty with prospects of what you want to do and see if they are interested?

That's more customary in some fields than in others, I don't know about Geography. Regardless though, it sounds premature to me. It's not usually a good idea to contact profs just to ask if they are taking on students next year (they wouldn't be able to give you an answer yet about what will happen 1-2 years from now anyway). You need to show familiarity with potential advisers' research and talk about how it relates to your interests in your email.

First, you need to define your research interests. It doesn't sound like you've had a lot of experience in the field of geography. You need to sit down and think about why you want to go to grad school for it. The adcoms ask themselves this question of every applicant, moreso of ones who don't have a lot of formal training in the field. They will want to choose applicants who have clear goals and a strong background, who will have the greatest chances of successfully finishing the program.

Second, try to get some relevant research experience (If the job offer you talk about offers you that, then it's great). Think about what kind of writing sample you'll be able to provide. Spend a considerable amount of time working on you SOP to make sure that you properly explain why you want to get into the field, (hopefully) highlight the improvement in your grades in your major/last years, talk about your future goals and what you hope to get from your grad degree. Also work on obtaining a good score in the GRE to offset the lower GPA.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

Wow this is really helping. I'm getting a better idea of what I want to do. I'm going to sit down with some of my geography profs. and talk about some ideas I have. I think really what I need is time to think, which right now is not enough due to all the work I'm finishing. I was thinking along the lines of how can we make the most efficient use of our space with the least amount of impact to our environments. This could be anywhere from planning cities and communities to make more efficient use of their geographic space to educating people on more efficient, sustainable ways to getting things done: commuting, living, agriculture, commerce etc.

[fuzzylogician]

Glad I could help! You still have plenty of time to work on becoming a strong applicant for fall 2010, but start working on your app NOW. One of the first things to define is what you want to do with your degree (stay in academia? work for the government or NGOs? Go into the private sector?). After you've decided on that, sit down with your profs and ask them where work is being done that can help you achieve your goals. For different goals, you might choose schools with different strengths (i.e., placement records in academia vs. the private sector, subjects that are more desirable in/outside academia, etc). Read up on profs' works at those universities. Decide which schools to apply to and start assembling all of the required materials. There's some great advice on this board that you can use when you get to that stage. Good luck!

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

Thank you so much! I'm so glad I found this website. Yes, I need to figure out what it is I want out of a degree. I know that I want to at least be able to research. At the same time though I'm not sure about staying in academia or going for the private sector. I guess a priority would be to work for the highest pay. Not suggesting that money is my prime motivator but it does help with deal with a dose of reality. One of the things I was deciding a year ago was what could be my highest potential if I stayed in school 2 years for an MA or 5 for the PhD? What are my options just having a BA (which I found out a few weeks ago isn't too promising as a traveling life insurance salesman jeez.....) I would like a good balance between being able to afford to live as well as be happy doing what I like. If I can find that happy medium, well I would be very satisfied.

[hiteshsahni]

I am an Indian Computer Science Graduate with Undergrad GPA 2.5

I want to do master's in computer science in US.

My TOEFL Score - 109/120

Preparing for GRE these days.

I have 6 months internship experience in an IT firm.

Can I expect getting into a top graduate school? Or are there grad schools which accept low GPA applicants? Is research important for MS applicants also?

[belowthree]

I am an Indian Computer Science Graduate with Undergrad GPA 2.5

I want to do master's in computer science in US.

My TOEFL Score - 109/120

Preparing for GRE these days.

I have 6 months internship experience in an IT firm.

Can I expect getting into a top graduate school? Or are there grad schools which accept low GPA applicants? Is research important for MS applicants also?

1) To be honest it's really really really really hard for an international student to get in with a low GPA. Domestic applicants have it a lot easier.

2) Even domestic applicants would have a tough time getting into a top program with a low GPA, you slip by with a bunch of research experience, a few connections and a bit of luck. But it's tough. For an international student... wow, really tough.

3) Research is less important for MS applicants and this poses a bigger problem: it also doesn't serve nearly as big of a counterweight. While research can overcome a low GPA for a PhD student, it may not do as much to aid an MS student. It depends heavily though on everything... either way, yes, research is important.

To be completely honest, to an adcom you'd probably sound pretty under-qualified. No research experience, no research goals, only 6 months experience at a firm the adcom is unlikely to recognize or care for, no demonstrated passion for the field and a bad GPA?

At that point you may very well have enough issues getting into a top program even if your GPA was good. (I'm actually not certain that a 2.5 is that bad in the schools over there... they grade things differently than we do. I know there's plenty of international students with higher GPAs, but how good or bad is a 2.5 from India anyways?)

I don't mean to sound mean, but uhm, you're going to need to learn how to highlight your strong points better than this I would think...

Summary: While students with low GPAs can get into top schools, you better have really clear goals, a demonstrated passion for the field and a clear reason for the adcom to hang their hat on when they look at your app. Whether it be research experience (likely) or something else, you need something to say "well this is so good that the other stuff doesn't matter I think we should take them anyways."

[hiteshsahni]

Dear belowthree,

Thanks for the reply. Everything you wrote is correct. You analyzed my situation very well.

But I want to mention that I have passion for my field. I have got A's in subjects like data mining, database administration etc. and B's in operating system principles, theory of computation etc. And I am willing to do anything I can to get into a top MS program in my field. What would you suggest I should do now ?

May be I should go for a job and gain experience in my field. Will that improve my chances?

[belowthree]

But I want to mention that I have passion for my field. I have got A's in subjects like data mining, database administration etc. and B's in operating system principles, theory of computation etc. And I am willing to do anything I can to get into a top MS program in my field.

Yeah... I wish passion was required to get As in classes these days, but it really isn't and good grades just don't show passion.

Have you worked on any actual projects in these fields? There's tons of open-source projects out there...

What would you suggest I should do now ?

Follow your passion, see where it leads you. I wish I could be more specific, but everyone's path is different. Mine led me to research and grad school. Yours may lead you elsewhere and eventually an MS.

May be I should go for a job and gain experience in my field. Will that improve my chances?

I'm not convinced grad schools care about jobs much. But experience can help. Just make sure a job leads to impressive and tangible experience and not "I worked for 5 years doing a generic job in my field"

[hiteshsahni]

There you are belowthree. "Good grades don't show passion". Then how do bad grades show lack of passion. Just because I have a gpa 2.5 doesn't mean lack of interest in my field.

And thanks for the advice on what to be done now. May be I will start working on some opensource or freelance projects. i am grateful for all your useful replies and support.

[glasses]

There you are belowthree. "Good grades don't show passion". Then how do bad grades show lack of passion. Just because I have a gpa 2.5 doesn't mean lack of interest in my field.

It's not a question of passion; presumably, everyone who contemplates spending 5+ years studying for an advanced degree has a high degree of passion for their subject. So, it comes down to determining competency, particularly in relation to a student's ability to perform competitively in a graduate program. This isn't at all to say that a low undergraduate GPA means a lack of competency: rather, I mean to say that in order to show that you can perform, particularly because of the difficulties associated with being an international applicant, you might want to spend some time taking graduate classes, researching, etc. It may also help to talk to your undergrad professors--people who know you, your struggles, your strengths, and your ambitions--and see if they have any specific suggestions.

[belowthree]

There you are belowthree. "Good grades don't show passion". Then how do bad grades show lack of passion. Just because I have a gpa 2.5 doesn't mean lack of interest in my field.

Much like glasses posted above, bad grades don't demonstrate lack of passion at all.

The problem you have is you don't have the grades so you need to demonstrate passion. Someone who has the grades probably doesn't. Grades don't really indicate passion one way or another. I'm well aware that a low GPA doesn't mean you have a lack of interest in your field. In fact I tend to suspect that anyone with too high a GPA might have a lack of interest in their field. (Only in extreme cases. If someone's getting a 4.0 I think their priorities are screwed up and they should have been spending a lot of that time doing things other than classes if they really cared about their field, obviously getting good grades takes precedence over actual learning at some point. Hard to tell where the line is.)

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I'm getting a better idea now of what I want to do. I want to do applied human geography and remote sensing. (Is there such thing?) As soon as the semester is out, I'm going to retake the GREs and start my apps. as well as start applying to gov't census jobs or some related field that I can apply to geography.

I did not mention one thing before. I was diagnosed with some learning disabilities a few years ago: dyscalculia and attention deficit disorder. (I probably should have ditched economics from the beginning however by the time I needed a disciplinary minor I had already completed 2 courses and it was easier to finish the econ then start a new disciplinary minor. I already had an interdisciplinary minor in Asian studies and was nearly done with my interdisciplinary major in Environmental studies.) I had a meeting with my school's center for teaching and learning center where they recommended that I be re-evaluated by a neuro-psych to get official extra time on the GREs. They also said I was ill-advised from the start, but I think that's partially my fault. My question to everyone here is do you have or know of anyone with learning disabilities in a graduate program? What are some grad school policies regarding learning disabilities?