Trying to decide between UCLA and Brown sociology

[SamajChinta]

My interests are inequality, demography and development. I have been accepted to a few sociology Ph.D programs (see signature) and have narrowed down my choices to UCLA and Brown (both have offered full funding). Brown has offered me a better financial package (more money and less work obligations), is a better research fit to some extent (more faculty members carrying out research in developing countries), and being a private university, offers more funding opportunities for travel, research, etc. But I am concerned about the fact that its rankings (overall, and in sociology) have been slipping over the years (USNews, Times). UCLA is in the top 10 and has better student placements. I am finding it difficult to decide between the two programs . How much importance should I place on rankings? Do the rankings reflect the fact that the quality of graduate education at Brown has deteriorated? Any advice is most welcome. Feel free to pm me.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SamajChinta

[Darth.Vegan]

Seems like the biggest factor here is job placement. Is Brown at least placing their students in tenure track jobs? And how important is a prestigious placement? While a top 20 placement is rare anyway, it's extremely rare, almost impossible, if you're coming from a program outside the top 20. 

 

Also, why is Wisconsin off the table? 

Edited March 28, 2014 by xdarthveganx

[thetruth1234]

given your signature, the easy answer is madison.

 

madison madison.

 

then, brown or ucla are equally good.

 

but seriously, top schools will always be looking to madison for the next rockstar. coming from ucla or brown is fine, but they wont be LOOKING for you

[avatarmomo]

The easy answer is not Madison. USNews rankings do not directly correspond with placement records. For instance, Northwestern has a much better placement than Stanford, which is ranked higher. Likewise, although ranked lower, UCLA has a better placement record compared to Wisconsin. Also, I heard that grad students at Wisconsin are not super satisfied with their stipend, which is an important point to consider.

 

True, Brown is good but its placement record is not as good as that of UCLA or Wisconsin. However, you should keep in mind that Brown has a small program with much smaller cohorts than other schools. Brown's total number of grad students is around 40. I think UCLA has around 100, and Wisconsin has around 150. Cohort size directly influences the rankings, as you may have noticed most of the schools in the top 20 have larger cohorts than schools outside the top 20.

 

I agree with xdarthveganx in that coming from a non-top 20 program makes landing on a job at a top 20 institution harder. But, it is definitely not impossible. In fact, xdarthveganx's school UC Irvine, which has a great program, recently hired a Brown alumni as an assistant professor.

 

I am one of Brown admits, and I am strongly considering their offer. What I heard from current grads, faculty, and recent alumni at Brown convinced me that the program is very very strong, especially in the areas you are interested in. Also, they have some great research centers that could complement your research interests.  If you have not done it yet, check for instance, the Watson Institute and the graduate program in development.

 

Here is my advice: If you think that your research interests might change during your graduate years (which is common), you might be slightly better off going to UCLA because of job opportunities. But only slightly. Even in the very top programs, except maybe Princeton, usually only one or two people land on jobs at top 20 schools. Statistically speaking, chances of getting a job at top institutions depend more on your work and less on which top school you graduated. But, if you think that you might be interested in studying nationalism and comparative historical sociology, then UCLA is your best choice. If you are certain about what you want to study, (demography, development, and inequality), Brown might have more to offer. And, despite small cohorts, Brown's placement record should not be underestimated. PM me if you have anything you want to share or ask.

[breaks0]

Dumb question, but wouldn't you rather be in  LA? Warning, I met a former prof who left b/c it comes across as something of a patriarchal department. Unfortunately, I get the vibe the school is a bit conservative that way, but it will get you a job and it's as good as any demography dept in the country, b/c you can work in what I guess is America's most diverse city! Brown may be better for development....I dunno, if the bruins are funding you and you like the school, I don't see how you can turn that down, of UC schools I fit UCB, not ucla. But your case is different. Congrads and good luck.

[SamajChinta]

According to current students, Brown seems to do a pretty good job of placing its graduates in tenure track positions (although these universities are nowhere near the top 20). A large number of graduates have accepted postdoc positions at Princeton, Yale, Harvard  (I’m an international and not entirely familiar with the US higher education system, so am not sure how to interpret this -  does accepting postdoc positions reflect the difficulty of graduates in obtaining a tenure-track position right after graduating?).

 

Wisconsin Madison is off the list because of personal reasons. The program is pretty awesome, no doubt about that, although I do agree with avatarmomo that their funding package isn’t the best.

 

@avatarmomo- Congratulations! Good to see another Brown admit on this forum. Will PM you soon.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! Both schools have their strengths, so I probably need to think a little more about this.

[Chris Bosh the Dinosaurman]

UCLA is a good program but I've heard some issues about its quantitative training (which is very important for a demographer).  Ask current students their opinion on the issue.