Is SIPA a back-up option?

[fall09]

It seems to me that most people who are admitted to such schools as SAIS, MSFS, HKS, WWS and Fletcher in addition to SIPA opt for schools other than SIPA. I realise that the SIPA reputation has suffered over the past years and am not impressed by all aspects of SIPA either, but in contrast to some of the other mentioned schools I would say it is probably still more rigorous academically.

Am I mistaken in thinking that SIPA is somewhat of a back-up option for prospective students?

[Dreams]

It seems to me that most people who are admitted to such schools as SAIS, MSFS, HKS, WWS and Fletcher in addition to SIPA opt for schools other than SIPA. I realise that the SIPA reputation has suffered over the past years and am not impressed by all aspects of SIPA either, but in contrast to some of the other mentioned schools I would say it is probably still more rigorous academically.

Am I mistaken in thinking that SIPA is somewhat of a back-up option for prospective students?

I think one of the things that hurts SIPA if how stingy it is with financial aid. Though that is a university wide problem. When faced with the debt-load from SIPA and potentially smaller load from another school, most people will opt for the smaller load because beginning salaries will not be that high.

I see an exception in this with Harvard. Harvard also holds aid close, but people tend to think twice because of the strength of the name. One final thing that probably gets to most people is the admissions experience and the sink or swim approach to completing your studies.

It was my top choice at one point, but as time passed and I began to get more information from people I knew in the program, I began to question that. I was also not a fan of their curriculum changes. Though I understand it was done to keep it more in line with other programs out there.

I will not disagree with you though about the academic rigor. It is definitely a strong program in its own right.

[zourah]

I certainly didn't go into the process thinking of it as such - I considered Elliott to be my back-up plan. My opinion of the academics remains good - I think what you're seeing is that given the choice, many of us have found it to be a less-enticing choice, and yet not necessarily for reasons of course quality. This impression might just be due to their lack of appeal to this year's grad cafe crowd; possibly a sample-size error, really.

[fall09]

Thanks FSIA. It was exactly the same for me in that SIPA used to be my first choice for a long time and now I am insecure about it. My other choices however, LSE and MSFS, either lack practice in their programme (LSE) or the kind of academic rigour and quant. training I am looking for (MSFS). I get mixed feedback from people; some aren't happy with it, others love it. I am starting to think that with SIPA, it is what you make of it, but you gotta stay on the ball and be focused.

[fall09]

I certainly didn't go into the process thinking of it as such - I considered Elliott to be my back-up plan. My opinion of the academics remains good - I think what you're seeing is that given the choice, many of us have found it to be a less-enticing choice, and yet not necessarily for reasons of course quality. This impression might just be due to their lack of appeal to this year's grad cafe crowd; possibly a sample-size error, really.

Yes, Zourah, you have a point. Given choice, matters can change. I've been agonising over which school to pick for weeks now. I always thought being spoilt for choice was fun. It is not.

[Dreams]

Thanks FSIA. It was exactly the same for me in that SIPA used to be my first choice for a long time and now I am insecure about it. My other choices however, LSE and MSFS, either lack practice in their programme (LSE) or the kind of academic rigour and quant. training I am looking for (MSFS). I get mixed feedback from people; some aren't happy with it, others love it. I am starting to think that with SIPA, it is what you make of it, but you gotta stay on the ball and be focused.

You are absolutely correct, it is what you make of it. If you are very proactive, then you can get exactly what you need from the program. And conversely, sitting back waiting may mean you will get locked out of a lot of things.

What does your gut tell you? Do you think you will end up regretting not going to SIPA? Have you felt glum when leaning towards one of your other choices? If so then that may mean you really want to go to SIPA.

I think you need to take a look at what is making you insecure about SIPA and weigh those things against the implications choosing either of your other two options could have on you. Then choose the school that best suits you.

[Sotototo]

SIPA is a great program. The difference among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS is almost ignorable when you are job-hunting. You'll get your interview chances if you come out of any one of these schools, and it is up to you to rock it.

People say Georgetown and SAIS have geographical advantage but wouldn't the employer also consider a SIPA graduate if he/she is on the list of applicants?

The bottom line is, you go where you want to go. Certainly if it's WWS or KSG, there is a difference but not among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS.

Personally, although I hate SIPA's big class size, I will take SIPA over other schools because it's an Ivy. Sounds shallow but that's the reality. You'll be surprised how many people don't know SAIS and Fletcher .

[deechi]

SIPA is a great program. The difference among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS is almost ignorable when you are job-hunting. You'll get your interview chances if you come out of any one of these schools, and it is up to you to rock it.

People say Georgetown and SAIS have geographical advantage but wouldn't the employer also consider a SIPA graduate if he/she is on the list of applicants?

The bottom line is, you go where you want to go. Certainly if it's WWS or KSG, there is a difference but not among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS.

Personally, although I hate SIPA's big class size, I will take SIPA over other schools because it's an Ivy. Sounds shallow but that's the reality. You'll be surprised how many people don't know SAIS and Fletcher .

What people are you talking to that don't know about SAIS and Fletcher? I'm assuming it's people who also don't know anything about international relations.

SAIS is the top IR degree in the country and it's not that way by accident. Besides JHU is one of the biggest if not, the biggest research university in the world (depends on what you are measuring).

Fletcher is the oldest and one of the most well respected IR institutions in the world and it's program is consistently ranked at the top of the pack for an IR Masters program. In fact, the FP rankings puts Harvard and Tufts 1 point apart from each other and significantly higher than Princeton. Add in the fact that you can cross register at both places and it's literally a wash with the major determinate being what you personally want to study.

In either case, I find it hard to believe that anyone important besides maybe your family and your buddies at the bar have not heard of Fletcher and SAIS.

I'd caution everyone highly against taking "general" recognition of a university and equating it to the ability of a professional degree from that institution to get you into and prepare you for a professional career. Is Harvard\Princeton known more by the average person? Sure.

Is it known more by international relations professionals and hiring officials? No. Not at all. The notion is downright laughable.

Also, "Geographical Advantage" refers more to your ability to network with people outside of your institution, your ability to work while attending school and access to faculty that may or may not be able to work in a place like Boston because they are busy with their day jobs.

On an application it's all about the same and all major institutions will have more or less the same access to organizations hiring regardless of their geographical orientation.

[cmnt29]

First, let me start by disclosing that I went to SIPA a few years back.

The real reason I wrote is to respond to

I find it hard to believe that anyone important besides maybe your family and your buddies at the bar have not heard of Fletcher and SAIS.

Reality Check. How do you think people do know these schools? These schools are not major MBA, Law, or Phd programs. People even in DC where I worked for several years, they may know the name, but unless they went to one of them, don't know the differences, and tend to lump them together. Lots of people in DC went to everywhere from George Mason, GWU, and every small school you've never heard of on the face of the earth. No where do these policy programs dominate. Even in the World Bank, the real degree is the phd, not the M.A.

Now if people in DC kindof know them, in New York, you will spend most of your time telling people why you don't have an MBA.

Not to mention the fact that once you are ten years removed from grad school, people don't judge your worth in life on what school you've gone to. And if you think at the age of 40, someone is going to say, "Wow, you went to SAIS. That's the number one program, and much better than Fletcher. When can you start?"

Unless they are SAIS alumni, they aren't going to care.

These school benefits are the alumni network (#1 reason), getting your foot in the door, doing a minor career change (but your chances of going from peace corps to Goldman Sachs are tiny), checking the MA block, getting some econ/quant training if you had some weak undergrad degree like poli sci or humanities and can't get into business school.

As someone else said, you will get a look from most major institutions, but the responsibility is yours for the job. The reason one school dominates in certain areas is that it gets people who want to go into them, it doesn't teach them some invaluable school found elsewhere.

I can answer other questions you may have.

[deechi]

First, let me start by disclosing that I went to SIPA a few years back.

The real reason I wrote is to respond to

Reality Check. How do you think people do know these schools? These schools are not major MBA, Law, or Phd programs. People even in DC where I worked for several years, they may know the name, but unless they went to one of them, don't know the differences, and tend to lump them together. Lots of people in DC went to everywhere from George Mason, GWU, and every small school you've never heard of on the face of the earth. No where do these policy programs dominate. Even in the World Bank, the real degree is the phd, not the M.A.

Now if people in DC kindof know them, in New York, you will spend most of your time telling people why you don't have an MBA.

Not to mention the fact that once you are ten years removed from grad school, people don't judge your worth in life on what school you've gone to. And if you think at the age of 40, someone is going to say, "Wow, you went to SAIS. That's the number one program, and much better than Fletcher. When can you start?"

Unless they are SAIS alumni, they aren't going to care.

These school benefits are the alumni network (#1 reason), getting your foot in the door, doing a minor career change (but your chances of going from peace corps to Goldman Sachs are tiny), checking the MA block, getting some econ/quant training if you had some weak undergrad degree like poli sci or humanities and can't get into business school.

As someone else said, you will get a look from most major institutions, but the responsibility is yours for the job. The reason one school dominates in certain areas is that it gets people who want to go into them, it doesn't teach them some invaluable school found elsewhere.

I can answer other questions you may have.

My post is specific to anyone going into Policy or the public sector with a focus on international relations. If you work at the World Bank and you don't know what SAIS is, then you have your own issues that you'll have to deal with. There's a reason these programs are recognized within their field and it's not just from the Alumni network.

If you want to go into the private sector, then well, maybe you should go to Business School. The name of KSG is not going to help you much there.

[fall09]

SIPA is a great program. The difference among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS is almost ignorable when you are job-hunting. You'll get your interview chances if you come out of any one of these schools, and it is up to you to rock it.

People say Georgetown and SAIS have geographical advantage but wouldn't the employer also consider a SIPA graduate if he/she is on the list of applicants?

The bottom line is, you go where you want to go. Certainly if it's WWS or KSG, there is a difference but not among Georgetown, SIPA, Fletcher, and SAIS.

Personally, although I hate SIPA's big class size, I will take SIPA over other schools because it's an Ivy. Sounds shallow but that's the reality. You'll be surprised how many people don't know SAIS and Fletcher .

People say Georgetown and SAIS have geographical advantage but wouldn't the employer also consider a SIPA graduate if he/she is on the list of applicants?

I agree with you that they won't ignore you but there are lots more SIPA graduates than MSFS or SAIS graduates. Someone said to me I should do MSFS because there were "too many SIPA graduates out there". Is that justified?

Personally, although I hate SIPA's big class size, I will take SIPA over other schools because it's an Ivy. Sounds shallow but that's the reality. You'll be surprised how many people don't know SAIS and Fletcher .

Class size is exactly my concern as well. When you say that you chose SIPA over other schools, would you mind sharing with us which ones they are?

[Sotototo]

I only got into SIPA for policy school. Got rejected by SAIS/Fletcher/Georgetown/WWS/KSG. I have no international experience at all. I am not sure if I'll go. 200k(includes opportunity cost) seems too much.

If I had a choice, I'll choose SIPA over any school except KSG and WWS. But, like I said in the previous post, it's your personal choice. I'll go to SIPA because of its name value, knowing other schools are just as good. No other reason than that. I am planning to work in academia in SE Asia and Columbia will be better for me than Hopkins/Georgetown/Tufts for its name recognition. I am sure there are many people who'll choose another school over SIPA, and I have nothing against it.

Personal experiences with IR schools:

1. My uncle went to SAIS and he is in 50's now. He is working at one of the biggest steel companies in the world, and he has the biggest SAIS pride. He says that many of his classmates are millionaires in the Wall Street.

2. I went to a top ten school in US but most of my friends didn't know SAIS/SIPA/SFS/Fletcher. A few people knew about Kennedy. They were all busy trying to go to law school or Goldman.

3. My SIPA friend applied for a position in NYC but she didn't get it. So she called the employer and the person said 50 SIPA applicants applied for the position. My friend isn't dumb. She was reasonably competitive.

4. A friend of mine who has been working at an NGO in DC for over five years said she will never go to any policy school unless she gets a full scholarship. She says MA will not take you anywhere.

[fall09]

My SIPA friend applied for a position in NYC but she didn't get it. So she called the employer and the person said 50 SIPA applicants applied for the position. My friend isn't dumb. She was reasonably competitive.

Was this a private sector position? Could you specify on the sector (banking, consulting, multinational org.)?

[washdc]

I mean.. Columbia ONLY has "a name recognition" mostly because of the quality of its undergrad- for those in the IR field SAIS, Fletcher, GU, WWS and KSG are well respected, probably more so than SIPA for all the obvious reasons that everyone is stating above ^^ they're accepting a huge number of people, putting a large price tag on their product and pushing out graduates.

There is a reason why people feel as though SIPA accepted everyone who applied, even unqualified candidates- it speaks to the quality of their graduate program.

[Sotototo]

Was this a private sector position? Could you specify on the sector (banking, consulting, multinational org.)?

She was always in the public sector. I assume it was multinational org since she always want to work for UN while she was in undergrad.

[kmita]

I do not understand why people seek advanced degrees in I.R when their true objective is to work for investment banking or management consulting firms. The key technical background that banking and management consulting firms require from potential hires is financial statement analysis skills. At a typical MBA program, students are required to take a certain number of finance and accounting courses regardless of their concentration. This is not the case at I.R programs unless students decide to double up in I.R and MBA. Whether someone graduates from SAIS or SIPA, he/she is not in a great position to directly compete with his/her MBA counterparts in investment banking or management consulting firms.

Before you decide on pursuing an I.R degree, make sure you have a concrete objective with what you would like to do with the degree. Otherwise you are wasting your precious time and energy.